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wcfvw69 
Samba Purist
Joined: June 10, 2004
Posts: 13389
Location: Arizona
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 Posted: Thu Sep 21, 2017 7:35 am Post subject: Re: Type4Store Camper Special/Mountain Climber engine kits - anyone? |
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| ROCKOROD71 wrote: |
| skills@eurocarsplus wrote: |
I have to say that this has been a pretty tame post seeing someone said the S word here.
everyone has different expectations from their bus. at the end of the day, it's up to the end user to decide what works best for them. the Subaru offers what the T4 can't in lots of ways.
I can see the value in both...stock or swapped. kind of glad to see the swaps being embraced more, and not this huge debate of stock or custom or a CS. options are good to have... |
Times are changing fast Skills. I been looking for a cold start valve for my type 4....$300, NLA. Economy of a stock rebuild is taking those of us who aren't in SMOG Nazi states by the hand and leading us to the Subi dealership....
Plus side is there will be lots of parts left behind for the Cali guys... |
Wasn't Bus Depot selling a reproduction? Or was that a sensor that Bosch discontinued and someone reproduced it quickly?
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ROCKOROD71
Samba Member
Joined: January 18, 2012
Posts: 2770
Location: Boston, MA
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| Posted: Thu Sep 21, 2017 7:45 am Post subject: Re: Type4Store Camper Special/Mountain Climber engine kits - anyone? |
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| wcfvw69 wrote: |
| ROCKOROD71 wrote: |
| skills@eurocarsplus wrote: |
I have to say that this has been a pretty tame post seeing someone said the S word here.
everyone has different expectations from their bus. at the end of the day, it's up to the end user to decide what works best for them. the Subaru offers what the T4 can't in lots of ways.
I can see the value in both...stock or swapped. kind of glad to see the swaps being embraced more, and not this huge debate of stock or custom or a CS. options are good to have... |
Times are changing fast Skills. I been looking for a cold start valve for my type 4....$300, NLA. Economy of a stock rebuild is taking those of us who aren't in SMOG Nazi states by the hand and leading us to the Subi dealership....
Plus side is there will be lots of parts left behind for the Cali guys... |
Wasn't Bus Depot selling a reproduction? Or was that a sensor that Bosch discontinued and someone reproduced it quickly? |
They sell a "rebuilt" unit, with a $95 core. Haven't called them yet but I would bet my paycheck they don't have any on the shelf and my house that they won't tell you who "rebuilds" the CSVs for them.
There are no reproductions available, and because the fuel route goes THROUGH the CSV unlike 99.9999% of other CSVs on the market, even for old cars, you can't rig up another as a replacement. Maybe with a fuel T. I haven't started thinking about it that much yet. 
Even the Beck/Arnely and Standard Motor Products CSVs for these were re-boxed Bosch units. Bosch holds the keys on this one.
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1971 STD BEETLE- DD-1st car, 1st love. keepin' it stock! 1600DP, Solex 34-3 Mexi Bosch SVDA Dist NOW w/POINTS
1977 WESTY "KrustyKamper" 2L FI
| 79SuperVert wrote: |
30 years from now, the next guy may not want your girlfriend, but he may want your classic car, depending on how nice you were to it. |
| asiab3 wrote: |
Careful guys, a petulant child can grow up to be president these days. |
**winter drivers: no survivors!**rust warrior**#keepbodyshopsbusy** |
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Squeeze Cheese
Samba Member
Joined: August 18, 2015
Posts: 268
Location: Atlanta, GA
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| Posted: Thu Sep 21, 2017 8:51 am Post subject: Re: Type4Store Camper Special/Mountain Climber engine kits - anyone? |
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Took the week off and just checked back to this great thread. I'm really glad I asked the question, all of your input is super valuable for me and other readers.
I think what's really interesting is that we produced only one poster that bought the kit recently from the Type2Store and built his engine through to completion. Not the multitude of raving reviews one would hope for...
Incidentally, I asked Nicole a week ago for some specs on the three different kits they offer and have yet to receive and answer. Whether that's due to the fact that they don't intimately know what they are selling, or have poor customer follow-through, pretty much sours me on the idea anyway.
It would be so much easier to do a stock rebuild with Len's heads.
We seem to be at a precipice with our powerplant choices for these cars we love. I'm on the fence just as much as many others. I KNOW, the type IV, I LEARNED. It has a charm to it. For the most part, I can rebuilt one, can keep it tuned and purring properly, and troubleshoot and fix the related components when they fail. But when it reaches it's life limit, and the choice is to spend so much to rebuild it to the degree of quality that's acceptable, or to just save some more and go for the option that will carry our buses at highway speeds into the next few decades relatively problem-free, but is (to me), something new I'll have to LEARN...
Tough choice.
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78' Dakota Beige Westy. “Skills” EJ25 engine conversion w/ zero mile factory short block, Delta 1000 cams, heater core and modified Gilmore AC. Matt Steedle 091 transaxle upgrade w/ 4.14 ring and pinion, Folts aluminum gear carrier. General Grabber AT2s on stock wheels. Solar powered aux battery w/ inverter. |
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DougB
Samba Member
Joined: January 09, 2007
Posts: 1076
Location: Falls Church, Virginia, USA
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| Posted: Thu Sep 21, 2017 8:57 am Post subject: Re: Type4Store Camper Special/Mountain Climber engine kits - anyone? |
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Re: the CSV, just because the fuel doesn't travel through other CSVs, couldn't you just tee off the main rail to run a single hose to one of the other, more widely available CSVs? I've seen one for an old MB, but with the single barbed fuel inlet, that I was going to try someday. Once the air bled out of the line it should be fine (IMO).
- Doug
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'73 Fastback
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DougB
Samba Member
Joined: January 09, 2007
Posts: 1076
Location: Falls Church, Virginia, USA
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| Posted: Thu Sep 21, 2017 9:07 am Post subject: Re: Type4Store Camper Special/Mountain Climber engine kits - anyone? |
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Same with the AAR...there are so many adjustable AARs available that you're bound to find one that can work. They might not mount in the same way but if the opening temp is similar, the inlet/outlet hoses are the same, and the opening size is adjustable, it might work.
Thinking it was a complex unit I once cracked open a throttle position sensor, only to find that someone with good 3D design modeling skills could probably design and print most of the pieces on a 3D printer. It's so simple inside.
Injectors can be had or old ones cleaned, they now make the TS2 again, and AFMs seem to be available rebuilt. I run a Mallory Unilite in my Camper Special (the last one that Jake made...cost me $12K) so no need to worry about distributors wearing out or needing rebuilt.
Yes, now is the time to grab whatever FI parts you can, to have a spare set of components or two, but it's not to a parts crisis situation quite yet.
Definitely eager to see Subi conversion kits and turnkey available engines (with shortened harnesses and such) available someday.
- Doug 
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'75 Campmobile (tin-top to SpaceRoof)
'73 Fastback
'52 BMW R67/2
'41 Zundapp KS600
'55 Puch SGS250
A very, very understanding wife |
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ROCKOROD71
Samba Member
Joined: January 18, 2012
Posts: 2770
Location: Boston, MA
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| Posted: Thu Sep 21, 2017 9:22 am Post subject: Re: Type4Store Camper Special/Mountain Climber engine kits - anyone? |
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| DougB wrote: |
Same with the AAR...there are so many adjustable AARs available that you're bound to find one that can work. They might not mount in the same way but if the opening temp is similar, the inlet/outlet hoses are the same, and the opening size is adjustable, it might work.
Thinking it was a complex unit I once cracked open a throttle position sensor, only to find that someone with good 3D design modeling skills could probably design and print most of the pieces on a 3D printer. It's so simple inside.
Injectors can be had or old ones cleaned, they now make the TS2 again, and AFMs seem to be available rebuilt. I run a Mallory Unilite in my Camper Special (the last one that Jake made...cost me $12K) so no need to worry about distributors wearing out or needing rebuilt.
Yes, now is the time to grab whatever FI parts you can, to have a spare set of components or two, but it's not to a parts crisis situation quite yet.
Definitely eager to see Subi conversion kits and turnkey available engines (with shortened harnesses and such) available someday.
- Doug |
I have yet to see a decent review or feedback about a "rebuilt" AFM. Bosch Classic claims to rebuild them to factory specs but I haven't gotten far enough in my tests yet to warrant an inquiry as to whether they rebuild ours. That is about the only place I would trust to rebuild them, and even then...
_________________
1971 STD BEETLE- DD-1st car, 1st love. keepin' it stock! 1600DP, Solex 34-3 Mexi Bosch SVDA Dist NOW w/POINTS
1977 WESTY "KrustyKamper" 2L FI
| 79SuperVert wrote: |
30 years from now, the next guy may not want your girlfriend, but he may want your classic car, depending on how nice you were to it. |
| asiab3 wrote: |
Careful guys, a petulant child can grow up to be president these days. |
**winter drivers: no survivors!**rust warrior**#keepbodyshopsbusy** |
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curtp07
Samba Member
Joined: November 28, 2007
Posts: 874
Location: Mass
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| Posted: Thu Sep 21, 2017 9:40 am Post subject: Re: Type4Store Camper Special/Mountain Climber engine kits - anyone? |
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Skills Subaru is where I'm heading ASAP.
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Subaru |
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Ride_On
Samba Member
Joined: August 27, 2015
Posts: 385
Location: Ottawa, Canada
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| Posted: Thu Sep 21, 2017 11:07 am Post subject: Re: Type4Store Camper Special/Mountain Climber engine kits - anyone? |
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En route now...
| curtp07 wrote: |
| Skills Subaru is where I'm heading ASAP. |
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1977 Westfalia 2.0 FI Skills EJ25 w SubaruGears 5sp
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=687254
2018 Golf Sportwagen 4MO DSG (Dieselgated 2013 Golf Wagon TDI DSG) |
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otiswesty
Samba Member
Joined: November 21, 2006
Posts: 1730
Location: Portland
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| Posted: Thu Sep 21, 2017 4:24 pm Post subject: Re: Type4Store Camper Special/Mountain Climber engine kits - anyone? |
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| cheesecrackers75 wrote: |
It would be so much easier to do a stock rebuild with Len's heads.
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This is what I would do if I was to do it again. Maybe I'll regret that statement if this motor continues running strong for 10 years and 85K miles.
Time will tell.
My last stock rebuild was a 1.8 built by a small shop in Ann Arbor that went 20 years and 100K miles with just two instances of major head work before last year.
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1978 Sage Green P22 Westfalia
1989 T3 Syncro Single cab
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DougB
Samba Member
Joined: January 09, 2007
Posts: 1076
Location: Falls Church, Virginia, USA
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| Posted: Thu Sep 21, 2017 4:43 pm Post subject: Re: Type4Store Camper Special/Mountain Climber engine kits - anyone? |
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Wow, 100K miles in 20 years! I've had this CS 4 years now and have 45K on it. I had to rely on the bus as a daily driver in all seasons for several years. Now we have another car, though, so I can take it easy on the bus.
- Doug
_________________
'75 Campmobile (tin-top to SpaceRoof)
'73 Fastback
'52 BMW R67/2
'41 Zundapp KS600
'55 Puch SGS250
A very, very understanding wife |
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skills@eurocarsplus
Samba Peckerhead
Joined: January 01, 2007
Posts: 16878
Location: sticksville, ct.
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| Posted: Thu Sep 21, 2017 6:55 pm Post subject: Re: Type4Store Camper Special/Mountain Climber engine kits - anyone? |
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| Ride_On wrote: |
| En route now... |
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| gprudenciop wrote: |
my reason for switching to subaru is my german car was turning chinese so i said fuck it and went japanese....... |
| Jake Raby wrote: |
| Thanks for the correction. I used to be a nice guy, then I ruined it by exposing myself to the public. |
| Brian wrote: |
| Also the fact that people are agreeing with Skills, it's a turn of events for samba history |
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mnskmobi
Samba Member
Joined: February 28, 2005
Posts: 536
Location: Melbourne, Australia
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| Posted: Thu Sep 21, 2017 7:09 pm Post subject: Re: Type4Store Camper Special/Mountain Climber engine kits - anyone? |
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| cheesecrackers75 wrote: |
...
It would be so much easier to do a stock rebuild with Len's heads.
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I'm not sure how you define "easier" when the kit has all/most of the stuff you need for the rebuild in the one box compared with chasing everything up separately!  |
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SGKent
Samba Member
Joined: October 30, 2007
Posts: 41031
Location: Citrus Heights CA (Near Sacramento)
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| Posted: Thu Sep 21, 2017 7:39 pm Post subject: Re: Type4Store Camper Special/Mountain Climber engine kits - anyone? |
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I think he meant that finding the correct machinist is 75% of getting the job done right and that he can use the $7,000 he will save to pay off his student loan which frees him up from a second job that he would need just to buy a box of engine parts.
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Squeeze Cheese
Samba Member
Joined: August 18, 2015
Posts: 268
Location: Atlanta, GA
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| Posted: Fri Sep 22, 2017 3:32 am Post subject: Re: Type4Store Camper Special/Mountain Climber engine kits - anyone? |
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| SGKent wrote: |
| I think he meant that finding the correct machinist is 75% of getting the job done right and that he can use the $7,000 he will save to pay off his student loan which frees him up from a second job that he would need just to buy a box of engine parts. |
Hahaha, well it IS only 1400 or so more hours flipping burgers at McDonald's and I'm there! And then if I make Junior Assistant to the Regional Manager...
I also mean it seems easier to rebuilt to stock with parts and a process I'm familiar with than to spend so much more on a kit that I can't seem to get any definitive specs on (What's a "Mountain Climber?") or verification it's up to the standards it once was when Raby owned it.
If this thread produced a slew of guys saying "Oh yea, I used those kits, here's what you'll get, it's a fine product and I'd do it again" - I'd be a little more tempted.
_________________
78' Dakota Beige Westy. “Skills” EJ25 engine conversion w/ zero mile factory short block, Delta 1000 cams, heater core and modified Gilmore AC. Matt Steedle 091 transaxle upgrade w/ 4.14 ring and pinion, Folts aluminum gear carrier. General Grabber AT2s on stock wheels. Solar powered aux battery w/ inverter. |
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skills@eurocarsplus
Samba Peckerhead
Joined: January 01, 2007
Posts: 16878
Location: sticksville, ct.
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| Posted: Fri Sep 22, 2017 4:46 am Post subject: Re: Type4Store Camper Special/Mountain Climber engine kits - anyone? |
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Did you try shoptalkforums? Someone there may have used a kit
_________________
| gprudenciop wrote: |
my reason for switching to subaru is my german car was turning chinese so i said fuck it and went japanese....... |
| Jake Raby wrote: |
| Thanks for the correction. I used to be a nice guy, then I ruined it by exposing myself to the public. |
| Brian wrote: |
| Also the fact that people are agreeing with Skills, it's a turn of events for samba history |
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Heliconman
Samba Member
Joined: August 08, 2008
Posts: 283
Location: Minnetonka, MN
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| Posted: Fri Sep 22, 2017 5:48 am Post subject: Re: Type4Store Camper Special/Mountain Climber engine kits - anyone? |
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| cheesecrackers75 wrote: |
| SGKent wrote: |
| I think he meant that finding the correct machinist is 75% of getting the job done right and that he can use the $7,000 he will save to pay off his student loan which frees him up from a second job that he would need just to buy a box of engine parts. |
Hahaha, well it IS only 1400 or so more hours flipping burgers at McDonald's and I'm there! And then if I make Junior Assistant to the Regional Manager...
I also mean it seems easier to rebuilt to stock with parts and a process I'm familiar with than to spend so much more on a kit that I can't seem to get any definitive specs on (What's a "Mountain Climber?") or verification it's up to the standards it once was when Raby owned it.
If this thread produced a slew of guys saying "Oh yea, I used those kits, here's what you'll get, it's a fine product and I'd do it again" - I'd be a little more tempted. |
Looking at the web site it appears they are offering three kits the CS, CS plus, and mountain climber. They appear to differ in piston size. 94mm,96mm, and 100mm. |
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Squeeze Cheese
Samba Member
Joined: August 18, 2015
Posts: 268
Location: Atlanta, GA
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| Posted: Fri Sep 22, 2017 8:22 am Post subject: Re: Type4Store Camper Special/Mountain Climber engine kits - anyone? |
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| Heliconman wrote: |
| Looking at the web site it appears they are offering three kits the CS, CS plus, and mountain climber. They appear to differ in piston size. 94mm,96mm, and 100mm. |
Right, that's the only info on the site. I asked for more, including performance numbers and customer feedback regarding reliability, etc. and have yet to hear back from them.
_________________
78' Dakota Beige Westy. “Skills” EJ25 engine conversion w/ zero mile factory short block, Delta 1000 cams, heater core and modified Gilmore AC. Matt Steedle 091 transaxle upgrade w/ 4.14 ring and pinion, Folts aluminum gear carrier. General Grabber AT2s on stock wheels. Solar powered aux battery w/ inverter. |
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Terminatez
Samba Member
Joined: June 07, 2015
Posts: 340
Location: Sun Valley, CA
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| Posted: Fri Sep 22, 2017 9:39 am Post subject: Re: Type4Store Camper Special/Mountain Climber engine kits - anyone? |
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| cheesecrackers75 wrote: |
I think what's really interesting is that we produced only one poster that bought the kit recently from the Type2Store and built his engine through to completion. Not the multitude of raving reviews one would hope for...
Incidentally, I asked Nicole a week ago for some specs on the three different kits they offer and have yet to receive and answer. Whether that's due to the fact that they don't intimately know what they are selling, or have poor customer follow-through, pretty much sours me on the idea anyway.
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I just want to say that whenever I emailed or called Type4Store, Nicole was always there and helpful. Same with my mechanic, when we had doubts or questions, he would always email or call and they'll help.
Maybe they're busy now that they've come up with a few new lines of type 4 kits that they have a big workload? Maybe they missed your email, or are just holding back on replying while they gather the correct information for you.
Don't hesitate to send them another email.
They helped my mechanic and I figure out the correct recomended endplay, shims, sizes, compression, etc etc specific for my bus load and the CS engine.
Also maybe other CS guys are just too busy driving their busses around enjoying their engine. 
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1972 Westfalia P30 hardtop Campmobile [On-going Restoration]
| aeromech wrote: |
| I don't think I've ever seen an engine in worse shape. |
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Busstom
Samba Member
Joined: November 23, 2014
Posts: 3848
Location: San Jose, CA
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| Posted: Fri Sep 22, 2017 11:37 am Post subject: Re: Type4Store Camper Special/Mountain Climber engine kits - anyone? |
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| cheesecrackers75 wrote: |
| Heliconman wrote: |
| Looking at the web site it appears they are offering three kits the CS, CS plus, and mountain climber. They appear to differ in piston size. 94mm,96mm, and 100mm. |
Right, that's the only info on the site. I asked for more, including performance numbers and customer feedback regarding reliability, etc. and have yet to hear back from them. |
They may not have performance data, or data that they're confident enough in or comfortable with publishing, for whatever reason(s).
I'd be very interested in hearing about somebody with a CS that has, say, a 100k on it, or more, and hear about compression/leakdown tests, even pull the heads apart and the checked condition. That would be way more interesting than opinions like, "Hey, my CS runs great and I have 15,000 miles on it."
Cheesecrackers, do you have an existing Type-4 engine? Did it blow up and self-destruct? Or are the case, crank and rods reusable (with inspection/refresh), which is often the case? If the latter, than as you probably know, the cash outlay will probably go in this order:
Len's "Blueprint Special" heads: ~$1,500
Mahle P&L's (for a 2.0L): ~$400 (find 'em at Autohauz, etc)
WebCam/Lifters (73 or 142): ~$450
What am I forgetting? Perhaps oil pump, cooler?
That's generally it, there's your long block. Sundry items (bearings, gaskets, etc) cost what they cost. The parts are readily available. They're out there. It just isn't that hard finding them, I had no drama whatsoever gathering all my parts...stock 2 liter, save for Len's $1,500 heads (AMCs), and the Web 73.
Just throwing some perspective into the mix, here. |
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raygreenwood
Samba Member
Joined: November 24, 2008
Posts: 21518
Location: Oklahoma City
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| Posted: Fri Sep 22, 2017 12:23 pm Post subject: Re: Type4Store Camper Special/Mountain Climber engine kits - anyone? |
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| Busstom wrote: |
| cheesecrackers75 wrote: |
| Heliconman wrote: |
| Looking at the web site it appears they are offering three kits the CS, CS plus, and mountain climber. They appear to differ in piston size. 94mm,96mm, and 100mm. |
Right, that's the only info on the site. I asked for more, including performance numbers and customer feedback regarding reliability, etc. and have yet to hear back from them. |
They may not have performance data, or data that they're confident enough in or comfortable with publishing, for whatever reason(s).
I'd be very interested in hearing about somebody with a CS that has, say, a 100k on it, or more, and hear about compression/leakdown tests, even pull the heads apart and the checked condition. That would be way more interesting than opinions like, "Hey, my CS runs great and I have 15,000 miles on it."
Cheesecrackers, do you have an existing Type-4 engine? Did it blow up and self-destruct? Or are the case, crank and rods reusable (with inspection/refresh), which is often the case? If the latter, than as you probably know, the cash outlay will probably go in this order:
Len's "Blueprint Special" heads: ~$1,500
Mahle P&L's (for a 2.0L): ~$400 (find 'em at Autohauz, etc)
WebCam/Lifters (73 or 142): ~$450
What am I forgetting? Perhaps oil pump, cooler?
That's generally it, there's your long block. Sundry items (bearings, gaskets, etc) cost what they cost. The parts are readily available. They're out there. It just isn't that hard finding them, I had no drama whatsoever gathering all my parts...stock 2 liter, save for Len's $1,500 heads (AMCs), and the Web 73.
Just throwing some perspective into the mix, here. |
Thats a true perpective......but as you note.....its stock. The CS is not stock.
The head pricing ...yes.....but to get into the realm of what a CS is.....you need to add in....new and better springs, solid spacer kit (if you dont have them), Porsche swivel feet, new push rods...cut to length for proper geometry setting.
While the good parts are a big part of an engine like this.....the BIG chunk of money (or if you cab do it yourself....time).....is all of the matching and balance work.
Virtually all of the cylinders out of the box these days need some work.
Sure....you can do it yourself for huge amount cheaper. But if you want the same result a CS ....you have to be able to do the fine detail work or pay for it. Ray |
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