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Lowering my buggy
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Skulptorchaz
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 21, 2017 7:17 am    Post subject: Lowering my buggy Reply with quote

Hey Gents,
Well, I am finally putting the style wheel on my buggy that I want - Ansen Sprints. While I am at it, I am going to try to level out the rear. It seems my left side is about 1/4'' lower. (I.R.S.) I hope that is about one click on the plate.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


And, altho I REALLY don't want to, I figured I probably ought to lift the rear a bit to get the tires to wear better. I like'em low. Bad thing is, the insides are just wearing to quick. Also, with MUCH reluctance, I'm actually putting the white letters out to try to get more use out of my BFG's.
So all that said, are there any other ways to lower Dubs without having to cant the wheels? I know it's how many do it, and see it done all the time on beetles, etc. but, I'd like to get it down without sacrificing the tires. I figure if there is a way to do it, I would start making plans for it cause at some point I have 14'' wide Sprints for the rear and those tires are about $450.00 each. (no grease)
I'll drop some pix when they are on. It might not be a big thing but, I have always loved Sprints and I think they are the quintessential wheels for a buggy.
Thanks!
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germanx
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 21, 2017 7:26 am    Post subject: Re: Lowering my buggy Reply with quote

WHat about flipping the trailing arms?

http://www.volksrods.com/forum/showthread.php?t=10217
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Q-Dog
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 21, 2017 7:35 am    Post subject: Re: Lowering my buggy Reply with quote

At the height you are now I believe you should not have that much camber on an IRS rear. Could be worn out rubber bushings or bent arms.
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Skulptorchaz
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 21, 2017 7:52 am    Post subject: Re: Lowering my buggy Reply with quote

Germanx, that 'sounds" like something I could easily do (I have a welding shop) but the pix won't come up. Altho I know it would be no problem doing it, I'd like to see the pix to make sure I do it correctly. Any chance you know how or where I can find this article with the pix?? They won't come up for me.
Thanks!!

Q-Dog, both the arms and rubbers are (almost) new. I had to buy both when I went from swing to IRS. I wonder if there is something else amiss.

Thanks gents!!
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Q-Dog
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 21, 2017 8:18 am    Post subject: Re: Lowering my buggy Reply with quote

Is this a car you converted to IRS?
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hillmotorsports
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 21, 2017 8:30 am    Post subject: Re: Lowering my buggy Reply with quote

Q-Dog...
He stated so in his last post. Wonder if he inadvertently flipped the arms side to side???

Paul
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Skulptorchaz
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 21, 2017 9:29 am    Post subject: Re: Lowering my buggy Reply with quote

Hmmmm.... I would not think I did. Judging from the article I read from Germanx, I would have to modify them to do that. Wouldn't I???
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Q-Dog
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 21, 2017 2:45 pm    Post subject: Re: Lowering my buggy Reply with quote

To clarify, did you cut the pan/torsion and weld in the IRS pivots? Did you use a jig for that?

And. Yes, you would have to cut off the shock mounts on original arms to flip them over.
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Skulptorchaz
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 21, 2017 6:25 pm    Post subject: Re: Lowering my buggy Reply with quote

Yes. I used a jig to position the pivots. It went pretty well. But, to be fair, I have a welding shop.
Is there maybe different jigs or ????????
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rodjr
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 21, 2017 6:47 pm    Post subject: Re: Lowering my buggy Reply with quote

Q-Dog wrote:
At the height you are now I believe you should not have that much camber on an IRS rear. Could be worn out rubber bushings or bent arms.


I have to agree, something is not right. can you try to get a pic of one of the pivot points?
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Skulptorchaz
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 21, 2017 7:19 pm    Post subject: Re: Lowering my buggy Reply with quote

Sure.Hopefully it will show something but not sure it will be a good angle.
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Dale M.
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 21, 2017 7:26 pm    Post subject: Re: Lowering my buggy Reply with quote

I really think you do not have torsion bars clocked the same....

You need to put a little more down preload into driver side... Put a angle finder on drivers side spring plate and measure angle... Put jack under CHASSIS and raise driver side till it sits where you want it, measure angle on spring plate again and subtract smaller number from larger number of degrees and that is how much down preload you need to add into drivers side...

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"Numbers" work either way, yes chart is to lower but if you invert chart it raises car...


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Or digital...

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Dale
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Skulptorchaz
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 22, 2017 12:41 pm    Post subject: Re: Lowering my buggy Reply with quote

I hope these might tell ya something. The buggy is jacked up off the floor.

Right.
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Left.
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Right.
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Left.
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Dale, yeah I know I need to level it, and the table you published will help a LOT!! But do you think the tires will level out to "flat" by adjusting the plates? It just seems like a LOT of height to get it there. (But, I am new at this game.)
Thanks guys!!!!!!!!
Chaz
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weasel_ugs
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 22, 2017 6:04 pm    Post subject: Re: Lowering my buggy Reply with quote

A guy I know that races buggies said sometimes the rear torsion housing bends in the middle giving that same effect.
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Driftin
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 29, 2017 9:28 pm    Post subject: Re: Lowering my buggy Reply with quote

I flipped my trailing arms to get rid of the camber. Worked good.

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oprn
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 30, 2017 5:10 am    Post subject: Re: Lowering my buggy Reply with quote

So a jig does not ensure that the camber comes out right then? I see no point in using one if that is the case. Just use the trailing arms and spring plates to locate the brackets for welding.
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Skulptorchaz
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 30, 2017 7:10 am    Post subject: Re: Lowering my buggy Reply with quote

Driftin,
NICE buggy!! (I'm partial to the color. Smile Smile )
This is interesting. I am swapping out the engine this winter and will look at it then. I'd love to have any other info, tips, tricks, pictures, etc., in doing it.

OPRN, yeah, I "think" you need to do the jig to make sure you weld it in correctly and then flip them or, I guess a jig could be made for when you weld them in to get rid of the camber from the get go.
Using the stock pieces "could" work too, I suppose. Since I don't have a lot of experience in this, I would defer to someone who may have done this. I would guess the initial set up before welding would be more involved than just having a jig to go by. If I do another one, I'll be looking at that and maybe make a jig.

Thanks gents! [/u]
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EVfun
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 30, 2017 1:24 pm    Post subject: Re: Lowering my buggy Reply with quote

Skulptorchaz wrote:
And, altho I REALLY don't want to, I figured I probably ought to lift the rear a bit to get the tires to wear better. I like'em low. Bad thing is, the insides are just wearing to quick. Also, with MUCH reluctance, I'm actually putting the white letters out to try to get more use out of my BFG's.
So all that said, are there any other ways to lower Dubs without having to cant the wheels? I know it's how many do it, and see it done all the time on beetles, etc. but, I'd like to get it down without sacrificing the tires. I figure if there is a way to do it, I would start making plans for it cause at some point I have 14'' wide Sprints for the rear and those tires are about $450.00 each. (no grease)
I'll drop some pix when they are on. It might not be a big thing but, I have always loved Sprints and I think they are the quintessential wheels for a buggy.
Thanks!


Camber is effected by the ride height in an IRS setup, but camber is not dictated by ride hight like it is in a swingaxle frame. Others have given suggestions on how to reduce the camber with your setup, I've never messed with an IRS Bug. Some extra work would be required to adjust the camber at extremes of raising or lowering, but it's certainly possible with an IRS rear suspension. Swingaxles have the caster dictated by ride height with the only way to change it being to raise the transaxle.

I would point out though, that it doesn't look like you can lower very much even if you want too. From the pictures it looks like you may strike the diagonal control arm on the shock tower before the bump stops hit. If that has happened already perhaps the arms are bent. IRS Bugs had differently shaped shock tower to increase clearance.
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