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Yikes! I bought a '74 Super!!
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joey1320
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 23, 2017 3:21 am    Post subject: Re: Yikes! I bought a '74 Super!! Reply with quote

Why bother with the highway test if you are having such bad hesitation at lower speeds?
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 23, 2017 4:06 am    Post subject: Re: Yikes! I bought a '74 Super!! Reply with quote

I may have overstated. The hesitation is as if there's a bit of dirt in a jet so it levels off pretty quickly. Taking it on the highway today is not so much a test as I don't want to get into swapping back the bigger jet at 7 a.m. I may do it later at our friends' house, however.
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 23, 2017 1:26 pm    Post subject: Re: Yikes! I bought a '74 Super!! Reply with quote

Well, was doing 30 mpg on the way to Doylestown. I think the stuttering may have been - wait for it - the electronic points replacement. It may have crapped out about 35 miles out from our destination. Car lost power and backfiring, like when points go bad or close. Stumbled the rest of the way with flashers at 15-40 mph.

Engine turns fine by wrench, feels normal like when I turn it to adjust the valves. No oil leaks, level is rights. Temps were at 230 when I first pulled over, high for this car but it was hot today and I was going steady at 65mph.

Frank Bassman thinks it's likely ignition related so I'm going that route first.
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'74 Super 9/16 - present, in refurb process.
'73 Super - 6/18 - Present - Daily Driver!
'75 Super Le Grande...waiting it's turn in line behind '74.
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 24, 2017 7:06 pm    Post subject: Re: Yikes! I bought a '74 Super!! Reply with quote

Frank was right, it was the ignition module, but not necessarily that it had gone bad. Turns out the screw holding it down had worked itself loose and finally popped out of the threads on a bump, causing the module to slip and the timing to go south. Hopefully I didn't do any permanent damage to the engine for the 30 miles I limped to our friends' house. I took this video and I think I hear a previously unheard knock, and possibly an exhaust leak from my new muffler.

Link

Another samba member, Frank Bassman, thinks I should check the exhaust hold down nuts to make sure one or more hasn't come loose since installing the muffler last week.

Sorry to the moderators for the double post, but here's a picture where you can see the hold down screw that had come loose.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


This week I'll check the module in a different distributor to see if it's any good, and torque down the exhaust.
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'74 Super 9/16 - present, in refurb process.
'73 Super - 6/18 - Present - Daily Driver!
'75 Super Le Grande...waiting it's turn in line behind '74.
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 24, 2017 7:59 pm    Post subject: Re: Yikes! I bought a '74 Super!! Reply with quote

Victor,

I didn't hear any knocks there and honestly, I didn't hear any drastic exhaust leaks either. It wouldn't be a bad idea to check the torque on all the exhaust components either since you've had a couple of heat cycles.
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 24, 2017 9:24 pm    Post subject: Re: Yikes! I bought a '74 Super!! Reply with quote

vamram wrote:
I took this video and I think I hear a previously unheard knock, and possibly an exhaust leak from my new muffler.

Link


I don't hear sh%^ wrong. It's all in your head man.

If u worry about every tiny weird pop, knock, moan etc on these cars you'll end up in a padded room
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 24, 2017 10:31 pm    Post subject: Re: Yikes! I bought a '74 Super!! Reply with quote

Only noise that sounds a bit off is I'm pretty sure your fuel pump needs to be repacked with grease.
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 24, 2017 11:08 pm    Post subject: Re: Yikes! I bought a '74 Super!! Reply with quote

You can test for exhaust leaks using a shop vacuum. Hook it up to the ends of the muffler and turn it on. Then spray water mixed with soap at the connections. The bigger the bubble the bigger the gap.

As for the sound of the stock muffler, for me, it is synonymous with a beetle. I adore that sound. I absolutely love driving with the windows down (no radio) and listening for the whistle.
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 26, 2017 6:07 pm    Post subject: Re: Yikes! I bought a '74 Super!! Reply with quote

I'll test for exhaust leaks over the weekend. Today, I didn't have enough light to get into tightening down the bolts, spent what time I had checking the empi module and testing an 034 that came w/the car but wasn't installed. Good news and bad news.

I installed the empi module in the 034, I'm pretty sure it's dead. No spark whatsoever. So I put in a set of points and condenser the same set I should've had as a back up on my road trip and the thing fired right up!! Timed it to 7.5* at idle, had to set the idle a little richer than w/the DVDA, not sure why that is. But took it out for a short highway run, ran like a champ. I think the PO's mechanic didn't want to mess w/replacing the bad points that were in the unit and sold him instead the POS Empi SVA that was installed in the car when I bought it.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


I think the vacuum can is probably not correct, it has a 525 number stamped on the arm. But the car runs great. Tomorrow I may test full advance to see what I'm getting w/and w/out the vacuum can connected.[/i]
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'74 Super 9/16 - present, in refurb process.
'73 Super - 6/18 - Present - Daily Driver!
'75 Super Le Grande...waiting it's turn in line behind '74.
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 26, 2017 8:40 pm    Post subject: Re: Yikes! I bought a '74 Super!! Reply with quote

I just keep dealing with points, condenser, etc. I once got a bum Bosch condenser, but only once. It only takes a few minutes to deal with setting new points. I pull the distributor to do it. Every few months, or so, I re-check my dwell and timing. The dwell stays the same since I grease the cam with Mallory cam grease, but once in a while, my timing may be off a degree or two; so I reset it--just to be perfect. It doesn't take long.

Like I said previously, I keep spare points and condenser, but I've never had either fail on me while on the road, so I stay with the stuff VW put in my 034, and remain confident.

Tim
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 27, 2017 3:50 am    Post subject: Re: Yikes! I bought a '74 Super!! Reply with quote

Btw - MPG w/the points and the bigger main jet dropped to 29.4 on the highway at 55-60 MPH. I think the bigger jet may actually be a 130, it was hard to read w/these old eyes. I'll swap in a known 127.5 this weekend.

I will eventually replace the points w/a branded compufire...or a compufire DIS ignition system...
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Give peace a chance - Stop Russian-Soviet Aggression!!

'74 Super 9/16 - present, in refurb process.
'73 Super - 6/18 - Present - Daily Driver!
'75 Super Le Grande...waiting it's turn in line behind '74.
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Save the Supers!!
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 27, 2017 6:43 am    Post subject: Re: Yikes! I bought a '74 Super!! Reply with quote

I'm with Tim in that I don't mind adjusting my dwell and timing once a year. My VW's are not daily drivers and rarely have more than 500 miles a year put on them.

I also HATE the idea of a module frying on me, leaving me broken down. I don't have that worry with points and condensers. Whether I'm right or wrong, it's rare for anything on the stock VW engine to suddenly quit, leaving you stranded.
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 27, 2017 8:39 am    Post subject: Re: Yikes! I bought a '74 Super!! Reply with quote

wcfvw69 wrote:
I'm with Tim in that I don't mind adjusting my dwell and timing once a year. My VW's are not daily drivers and rarely have more than 500 miles a year put on them.

I also HATE the idea of a module frying on me, leaving me broken down. I don't have that worry with points and condensers. Whether I'm right or wrong, it's rare for anything on the stock VW engine to suddenly quit, leaving you stranded.


I'm not arguing w/you guys. I put a few more miles on mine as I use them as daily drivers. Life's too short and I don't have the resources to keep them as trophies! Wink

I prefer the electronic ignition for all of the pro's that have been stated elsewhere, despite the episode I had on this road trip and others have had. Points or module, they both fail eventually.

That said, i'll keep running the points I have on this guy until they crap out. I'll keep the compufire on my '72 until it dies (upwards of 30k trouble-free on it so far). No need to spend the $75 for a new compufire just yet.
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Give peace a chance - Stop Russian-Soviet Aggression!!

'74 Super 9/16 - present, in refurb process.
'73 Super - 6/18 - Present - Daily Driver!
'75 Super Le Grande...waiting it's turn in line behind '74.
Click to view image
Save the Supers!!
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 27, 2017 11:05 am    Post subject: Re: Yikes! I bought a '74 Super!! Reply with quote

With electronic ignition you need to keep a spare distributor and timing light. What advantage is there to an electronic ignition?
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 27, 2017 11:27 am    Post subject: Re: Yikes! I bought a '74 Super!! Reply with quote

kawfee wrote:
With electronic ignition you need to keep a spare distributor and timing light. What advantage is there to an electronic ignition?


Nothing personal Kawfee, but I think I'll refer you to the samba search for the answer. There are probably 1000s of pages dedicated to the points vs. electronic ignition debate in other threads.
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'74 Super 9/16 - present, in refurb process.
'73 Super - 6/18 - Present - Daily Driver!
'75 Super Le Grande...waiting it's turn in line behind '74.
Click to view image
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 27, 2017 11:31 am    Post subject: Re: Yikes! I bought a '74 Super!! Reply with quote

I was kind of wanting your reasons. I had two electronic distributors fail on me.
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 27, 2017 12:15 pm    Post subject: Re: Yikes! I bought a '74 Super!! Reply with quote

Victor, I see your point. A daily driver will put on a lot more mileage than I do. If you've found a way to keep maintenance down, more power to you--as long as you carry some backup. Very Happy

For my part, I don't enjoy setting points. I get them right on at .016 and sure enough, my dwell if off, nonetheless; so I have to reset them again. It's a pain in the ass, but a guy's gotta do what a guy's gotta do. And the last set of Bosch points I installed, the surface of the rider block wore in no time--even though I greased the cam lobes. I mentioned this in a thread, and others confirmed the same experience. The fix was to simply reset them, since one poster stated that the first portion of the rider was seemingly too soft, but as it wore, the wearing would stop. He was correct. I've had those points in for a couple years now and the dwell has remained constant.

Tim
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 27, 2017 12:16 pm    Post subject: Re: Yikes! I bought a '74 Super!! Reply with quote

kawfee wrote:
I was kind of wanting your reasons. I had two electronic distributors fail on me.


For me, set it and forget it. The Compufire on my '72 has over 30k miles on it. I've never had points last me more than 5-6k. Maybe I'll have better luck w/the FLAPS set I'm currently running.

The no-name Empi brand module died on me over the weekend after its retaining nut came loose while on a PA highway. Not sure why that killed it, but it's dead. I've had multiple pertronix products fail on me, including their vaunted ignitor module, so I'll never recommend their stuff. Even though there are others who've had 10,000s of good uninterrupted miles from the units.
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Eventually, "we are what we pretend to be.’”
Give peace a chance - Stop Russian-Soviet Aggression!!

'74 Super 9/16 - present, in refurb process.
'73 Super - 6/18 - Present - Daily Driver!
'75 Super Le Grande...waiting it's turn in line behind '74.
Click to view image
Save the Supers!!
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 27, 2017 2:05 pm    Post subject: Re: Yikes! I bought a '74 Super!! Reply with quote

vamram wrote:
kawfee wrote:
I was kind of wanting your reasons. I had two electronic distributors fail on me.


For me, set it and forget it. The Compufire on my '72 has over 30k miles on it. I've never had points last me more than 5-6k. Maybe I'll have better luck w/the FLAPS set I'm currently running.

The no-name Empi brand module died on me over the weekend after its retaining nut came loose while on a PA highway. Not sure why that killed it, but it's dead. I've had multiple pertronix products fail on me, including their vaunted ignitor module, so I'll never recommend their stuff. Even though there are others who've had 10,000s of good uninterrupted miles from the units.


Don't worry, I find value in them all. I've had good results with Pertronix. I like the points distributors too. Thank you for sharing your experiences.
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 27, 2017 5:33 pm    Post subject: Re: Yikes! I bought a '74 Super!! Reply with quote

Sharing experience and learning from others here is (mostly) what this is about. One thing I learned recently following a different thread is that I was missing these two pieces of engine tin.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

I can see how they would be an important piece of the cooling puzzle. I've always thought I had it all installed, including the hoover bit, heat riser covers, etc, so I bought the above from awesomepowerdercoat and finally got around to installing them on the '74 after work today.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Wonder if I'll see a change in temps...? Hopefully they stay in place, they're a little on the flimsy side. I was happy to see that the spring-loaded push rod tubes and seals I installed last year were squeaky clean and oil-free.
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Eventually, "we are what we pretend to be.’”
Give peace a chance - Stop Russian-Soviet Aggression!!

'74 Super 9/16 - present, in refurb process.
'73 Super - 6/18 - Present - Daily Driver!
'75 Super Le Grande...waiting it's turn in line behind '74.
Click to view image
Save the Supers!!
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