| Author |
Message |
SGKent 
Samba Member
Joined: October 30, 2007
Posts: 41031
Location: Citrus Heights CA (Near Sacramento)
|
 Posted: Fri Jun 06, 2014 9:06 pm Post subject: |
 |
|
| I wanted to update this thread. Last weekend we took a trip to Yosemite and while the steering is tight and stable even in the wind, it still has a little pre-load in it after a turn meaning that it will continue in the turn a tiny amount past where the driver stops turning the steering wheel. This means the driver has to come back a tiny bit once the turn radius is established. Colin calls it a dead feel - which is common in buses after the center pin and ball joints are replaced. I always felt that a part of the cause was a tiny amount of rock in the center pin which by the time it gets to the tie rod ends at the swing arm, allows them to pre-load and then spring back taking the bus a little further into the turn. Installing a factory center pin top and factory bushings did a lot to get rid of it but not all of it. Well, Dave - 77 Deluxe - found 2 NOS Factory center pins and sent me one - for which I am forever thankful. Tonight I installed it, but before doing so I measured the diameter of the pins. The factory center pin is about .0015" to .002" larger in diameter than the Febi one. Combined with the factory bushing which were about .002" smaller in diameter as I recall, that means the factory pin is about .0035" to .004" tighter than the Febi pin, or about .002" \on each side. Well - guess what - the lateral rock is all gone and the 3/4" - 7/8" play in the steering wheel is now just under 1/2" - exactly where it should be according to the factory manual. We will be going to Yosemite soon and it will be interesting to see if the steering is any better than last time. My 1971 was very tight and smooth - acting almost as a sports car. If this 1977 is as nice as the 1971 was when we go next time, I will report back mission totally accomplished (other than I miss the zerk fitting and factory ball joints). So, if you can find an old stock factory center pin and bushing kit - go for it. You'll get more bang for your buck than the after market ones. |
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
Petervw
Samba Member
Joined: July 04, 2005
Posts: 1020
Location: Sarnia Ont. Canada
|
| Posted: Tue Jun 10, 2014 6:03 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| SGKent wrote: |
| I wanted to update this thread. Last weekend we took a trip to Yosemite and while the steering is tight and stable even in the wind, it still has a little pre-load in it after a turn meaning that it will continue in the turn a tiny amount past where the driver stops turning the steering wheel. This means the driver has to come back a tiny bit once the turn radius is established. Colin calls it a dead feel - which is common in buses after the center pin and ball joints are replaced. I always felt that a part of the cause was a tiny amount of rock in the center pin which by the time it gets to the tie rod ends at the swing arm, allows them to pre-load and then spring back taking the bus a little further into the turn. Installing a factory center pin top and factory bushings did a lot to get rid of it but not all of it. Well, Dave - 77 Deluxe - found 2 NOS Factory center pins and sent me one - for which I am forever thankful. Tonight I installed it, but before doing so I measured the diameter of the pins. The factory center pin is about .0015" to .002" larger in diameter than the Febi one. Combined with the factory bushing which were about .002" smaller in diameter as I recall, that means the factory pin is about .0035" to .004" tighter than the Febi pin, or about .002" \on each side. Well - guess what - the lateral rock is all gone and the 3/4" - 7/8" play in the steering wheel is now just under 1/2" - exactly where it should be according to the factory manual. We will be going to Yosemite soon and it will be interesting to see if the steering is any better than last time. My 1971 was very tight and smooth - acting almost as a sports car. If this 1977 is as nice as the 1971 was when we go next time, I will report back mission totally accomplished (other than I miss the zerk fitting and factory ball joints). So, if you can find an old stock factory center pin and bushing kit - go for it. You'll get more bang for your buck than the after market ones. |
..Thankyou for sharing the update and measurements of the pins... definitely been several yrs in the making to bring about hopefully a "mission" accomplished…if you remember so long ago based on your recommendation I did buy some of the bushings from Germany but decided not to install them because of the pin diameters being to small..with four pins in front of me (the old original / Febi / 2 meyles ) all having different diameters…my plan was to install the VW classic bushings, then take an inside measurement and have a pin(s) made it one of the many industrial machine shops in my town..I don't know why I did not think of this earlier... |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
ToolBox
Samba Member
Joined: January 27, 2004
Posts: 3439
Location: Detroit, where they don't jack parts off my ride in the parking lot of the 7-11
|
| Posted: Wed Jun 11, 2014 11:15 am Post subject: |
|
|
| Petervw wrote: |
| Thankyou for sharing the update and measurements of the pins... definitely been several yrs in the making to bring about hopefully a "mission" accomplished…if you remember so long ago based on your recommendation I did buy some of the bushings from Germany but decided not to install them because of the pin diameters being to small..with four pins in front of me (the old original / Febi / 2 meyles ) all having different diameters…my plan was to install the VW classic bushings, then take an inside measurement and have a pin(s) made it one of the many industrial machine shops in my town..I don't know why I did not think of this earlier... |
Probably easier having bushings cut a little tighter and then reaming to the correct clerance based on pin diameter after they are pressed into the housing. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Tcash
Samba Member
Joined: July 20, 2011
Posts: 12844
Location: San Jose, California, USA
|
| Posted: Wed Jun 11, 2014 2:48 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Probably easier having bushings cut a little tighter and then reaming to the correct clerance based on pin diameter after they are pressed into the housing.
I had this thought too. The split bushings provided with the kit in no way would hold the tolerances you would be looking for. Therefore cutting and and reaming new bushing to size would be more precise.
This is the process for the splits. I wonder if their bushings would work?
I also wonder if the pins are hardened. If you get one cut at a machine shop it would need to be hardened.
Good Day
Tcash |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
SGKent
Samba Member
Joined: October 30, 2007
Posts: 41031
Location: Citrus Heights CA (Near Sacramento)
|
| Posted: Wed Jun 11, 2014 3:58 pm Post subject: |
|
|
I have been thinking a lot about other places some of the play could hide.
I measured as best my gauges would the distance between the flat surface on the cap and the spot that is machined for the bolt to pass by the pin. I did not measure the depth of the bolt cutout.
When the pin is installed, a large clamp must be used to push the swing arm and the pin together to collapse the big wavy washer before tightening the bolt. In fact one cannot push on the center of the swing arm or the pressure is pin to pin. Instead one must be sure the clamp top is on the swing arm and not the pin.
If the machined area for the bolt is shallower or higher up on the pin, even by a little, then the wavy washer may not fully collapse. This would also allow a small amount of play to be introduced when pressure is put into the swing arm. I did notice that when I tightened the clamp to flatten the wavy washer it seemed to be more pronounced with this pin than the Febi pin. Also the bolt did not bind as much on the pin as it does on the FEBI pin. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
ToolBox
Samba Member
Joined: January 27, 2004
Posts: 3439
Location: Detroit, where they don't jack parts off my ride in the parking lot of the 7-11
|
| Posted: Thu Jun 12, 2014 10:03 am Post subject: |
|
|
| SGKent wrote: |
I have been thinking a lot about other places some of the play could hide.
I measured as best my gauges would the distance between the flat surface on the cap and the spot that is machined for the bolt to pass by the pin. I did not measure the depth of the bolt cutout.
When the pin is installed, a large clamp must be used to push the swing arm and the pin together to collapse the big wavy washer before tightening the bolt. In fact one cannot push on the center of the swing arm or the pressure is pin to pin. Instead one must be sure the clamp top is on the swing arm and not the pin.
If the machined area for the bolt is shallower or higher up on the pin, even by a little, then the wavy washer may not fully collapse. This would also allow a small amount of play to be introduced when pressure is put into the swing arm. I did notice that when I tightened the clamp to flatten the wavy washer it seemed to be more pronounced with this pin than the Febi pin. Also the bolt did not bind as much on the pin as it does on the FEBI pin. |
Ever see the ads for the South American split swing pin kits? They are tapered and you can set the preload. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Tcash
Samba Member
Joined: July 20, 2011
Posts: 12844
Location: San Jose, California, USA
|
| Posted: Thu Jun 12, 2014 10:11 am Post subject: |
|
|
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Petervw
Samba Member
Joined: July 04, 2005
Posts: 1020
Location: Sarnia Ont. Canada
|
| Posted: Thu Jun 12, 2014 10:41 am Post subject: |
|
|
| ToolBox wrote: |
| SGKent wrote: |
I have been thinking a lot about other places some of the play could hide.
I measured as best my gauges would the distance between the flat surface on the cap and the spot that is machined for the bolt to pass by the pin. I did not measure the depth of the bolt cutout.
When the pin is installed, a large clamp must be used to push the swing arm and the pin together to collapse the big wavy washer before tightening the bolt. In fact one cannot push on the center of the swing arm or the pressure is pin to pin. Instead one must be sure the clamp top is on the swing arm and not the pin.
If the machined area for the bolt is shallower or higher up on the pin, even by a little, then the wavy washer may not fully collapse. This would also allow a small amount of play to be introduced when pressure is put into the swing arm. I did notice that when I tightened the clamp to flatten the wavy washer it seemed to be more pronounced with this pin than the Febi pin. Also the bolt did not bind as much on the pin as it does on the FEBI pin. |
Ever see the ads for the South American split swing pin kits? They are tapered and you can set the preload. |
..Has anyone ever shared their experience concerning the tapered unit…I can not remember having ever seen one comment…nice idea, to bad it is not using some form of a tapered roller bearing... |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Tcash
Samba Member
Joined: July 20, 2011
Posts: 12844
Location: San Jose, California, USA
|
| Posted: Sun Sep 24, 2017 10:46 am Post subject: How to make your bus swing lever bushings real tight, no play |
|
|
How to make your bus swing lever bushings real tight, no play
http://haysvwrepair.com/how-to-make-your-bus-swing-lever-bushings-real-tight-no-play/
"So for your bay, use the split bus swing lever kit and turn the outside of the bushings on a lathe down from about 29.7 millimeters in diameter (as they come in the kit) to 28. 7 millimeters in diameter – the diameter of your old bushings. But do measure your old bushings.
use the proper repair kit and opt for reaming of the bushings after they’re installed with the proper reamer." |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
