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llilibel03
Samba Member
Joined: February 03, 2008
Posts: 767
Location: Redondo Beach California
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 Posted: Sat Sep 23, 2017 11:33 am Post subject: Re: Two inch lift springs in a 2wd Vanagon? |
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Since we're on the topic- I have a 85 Westy. I have read here and there that it is the highest of stock 2wd vanagons. I'm at 16.5" Would the Gowesty 1.5" lift springs even raise my van? Would it be better to just put some spacers in to get a little lift?
I don't mind the ride. It is kind of soft and bouncy but I kind of like that (I'm thinking of one big dip that I always have to drive through by my house). My Yokohama Geolandars, though technically under rated ( 205/70r15 96h 51psi - there is open debate about wether they need to be derated ) feel good in turns, but there is definitely some sway on the highway. What would be a better fix for that- a bigger sway bar or GW (or other) progressive springs?
Or should I put all this in the lazy man's stupid question thread since it seems like I might be hijacking Multiman. By the way Multiman, did you get the 1.5" GW lift with the all terrain kit? Have they begun to sag?
_________________
87 syncro tintop
90 gl tin top
85 westy 2.0 tiico automatic (present) |
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davevickery
Samba Member
Joined: July 16, 2005
Posts: 2887
Location: Fort Collins, CO
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| Posted: Sat Sep 23, 2017 11:49 am Post subject: Re: Two inch lift springs in a 2wd Vanagon? |
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| llilibel03 wrote: |
| Since we're on the topic- I have a 85 Westy. I have read here and there that it is the highest of stock 2wd vanagons. I'm at 16.5" Would the Gowesty 1.5" lift springs even raise my van? Would it be better to just put some spacers in to get a little lift? |
Igd say get the Moogs, they are only about $60 shipped on amazon or ebay and you will be at 17" up front, or with small spacer a little higher and they are stiffer than your stock springs so the handling will improve. The GW rear zero lift springs would be a good match for them, or just add as many spacers as you need to be level. |
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Multiman mv
Samba Member
Joined: January 24, 2017
Posts: 987
Location: Martha's Vineyard, Ma
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| Posted: Sat Sep 23, 2017 11:59 am Post subject: Re: Two inch lift springs in a 2wd Vanagon? |
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| davevickery wrote: |
| llilibel03 wrote: |
How does a 3/8" spacer give you 1/2" lift?
And can you put spacers in the back. I have ab it of the sag... |
It's because of the pivot point. The wheel is out further than the spring, It is super simple to put pads in the rear and you can fit alot more in the rear than the front.
| Multiman mv wrote: |
| I was thinking about 1/2" spacers. Can I use spring pads on both front and rear? Gowesty sells "rear pads." My ride height seems to be around 17 inches. I have actually bottomed out and dented the front passenger wheel well lip (just noticed the rust and have already sanded it down to bare metal and hit it with primer.) I did bottom out in a pretty extreme terrain situation, so I'm not too worried about it happening again. Thanks for all the responses so far. |
Oh, so only 17". Sounds like you have zero lift springs, or super sagged out lift springs. GW lift springs are known to do that. Makes sense you would want a little more if your tires are rubbing. You can also put bigger bump stops on the shock so it doesn't hit the fender but your plan sounds good.
You could fit a 1/2" spacer under the top spring pad but the rubber donut that goes on the spring is then closer to popping out of the shallow dish it sits in. 1/2" will give you more than 1/2" lift, and I have done it, but when I replaced them recently, I went down to 3/8". I doubt anything could come apart,but I felt better about 3/8" rather than 1/2" Small difference though. |
I definitely have the 1.5" lift springs but I should have mentioned that I also have a tdi conversion. I haven't noticed much difference in ride height from before and after conversion so I don't think I'm suffering from sag. Though I have added many pounds of sound proofing, solar and battery, stereo equipment etc.. It just seems as though my van is lower than most with the gowesty 1.5 and fox shock combo. Maybe the multivan lower cladding adds to a lower perceived height off the ground? It just seems that the space between tire and lip of wheel well is less than others with the same combo. |
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llilibel03
Samba Member
Joined: February 03, 2008
Posts: 767
Location: Redondo Beach California
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| Posted: Sat Sep 23, 2017 12:01 pm Post subject: Re: Two inch lift springs in a 2wd Vanagon? |
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| davevickery wrote: |
| llilibel03 wrote: |
| Since we're on the topic- I have a 85 Westy. I have read here and there that it is the highest of stock 2wd vanagons. I'm at 16.5" Would the Gowesty 1.5" lift springs even raise my van? Would it be better to just put some spacers in to get a little lift? |
Igd say get the Moogs, they are only about $60 shipped on amazon or ebay and you will be at 17" up front, or with small spacer a little higher and they are stiffer than your stock springs so the handling will improve. The GW rear zero lift springs would be a good match for them, or just add as many spacers as you need to be level. |
Thanks. Moog 5658 and 3/8" spacer, check. In the back will there be any problem about seating the spacers like you describe in the front? I might need 3/4" -1" to level it out. Cutting board DIY or special built parts?
Now I have to determine if I can do the work myself. I don't have any lifts, ramps or what not. I have to make the call if it's worth to invest in tools and time or have the Automeisters do it....
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87 syncro tintop
90 gl tin top
85 westy 2.0 tiico automatic (present) |
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Gizmoman
Samba Member
Joined: September 10, 2011
Posts: 1554
Location: Nevada
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| Posted: Sat Sep 23, 2017 12:05 pm Post subject: Re: Two inch lift springs in a 2wd Vanagon? |
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FWIW, center of wheel to fender lip is based solely on spring height and pads if you have them. Tire diameter has no influence to that dimension.
_________________
82 Vanagon Westy - AAZ 1.9 TD, HE200 Holset, WAIC, 27.75 dia tires, Electric power steering, 5-speed AAP w/.078 5th
Oversize spare carrier - stock location (no longer for sale). |
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davevickery
Samba Member
Joined: July 16, 2005
Posts: 2887
Location: Fort Collins, CO
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| Posted: Sat Sep 23, 2017 12:16 pm Post subject: Re: Two inch lift springs in a 2wd Vanagon? |
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| llilibel03 wrote: |
Thanks. Moog 5658 and 3/8" spacer, check. In the back will there be any problem about seating the spacers like you describe in the front? I might need 3/4" -1" to level it out. Cutting board DIY or special built parts?
Now I have to determine if I can do the work myself. I don't have any lifts, ramps or what not. I have to make the call if it's worth to invest in tools and time or have the Automeisters do it.... |
The rears are easy, you can even do it without taking the wheel off, although it is easier to see what you're doing if you do. Unbolt shock, chock wheels, jack up van so wheel is off the ground, leave ebrake OFF, push down a little on wheel and spring will fall out. Add homemade cutting board spacers and put spring back. An inch is fine in back, a couple inches is too much IMO.
I would add some spacers to the rear and see how it sits and handles. The front should go down if the rear goes up but it also handles and brakes different when the van sits level. You might like it. |
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Multiman mv
Samba Member
Joined: January 24, 2017
Posts: 987
Location: Martha's Vineyard, Ma
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| Posted: Sat Sep 23, 2017 1:27 pm Post subject: Re: Two inch lift springs in a 2wd Vanagon? |
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| llilibel03 wrote: |
Since we're on the topic- I have a 85 Westy. I have read here and there that it is the highest of stock 2wd vanagons. I'm at 16.5" Would the Gowesty 1.5" lift springs even raise my van? Would it be better to just put some spacers in to get a little lift?
I don't mind the ride. It is kind of soft and bouncy but I kind of like that (I'm thinking of one big dip that I always have to drive through by my house). My Yokohama Geolandars, though technically under rated ( 205/70r15 96h 51psi - there is open debate about wether they need to be derated ) feel good in turns, but there is definitely some sway on the highway. What would be a better fix for that- a bigger sway bar or GW (or other) progressive springs?
Or should I put all this in the lazy man's stupid question thread since it seems like I might be hijacking Multiman. By the way Multiman, did you get the 1.5" GW lift with the all terrain kit? Have they begun to sag? |
No hijack at all, you are adding to the overall discussion, so thanks. I'm interested in what other people have in terms of springs and shocks and overall setups.
I do have the gowesty all terrain bundle with the 1.5 springs. I think I am already experiencing sag. The bundle has been installed for two years.
I did upgrade to a bigger sway bar and it made a noticeable difference in cornering. The van now leans into corners where as before the sway bar upgrade, the van used to sway back and forth on sharp corners. Nothing will combat heavy crosswinds but for overall handling around corners, I'd definitely recommend a heavier sway bar. |
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AZ Landshaper
Samba Member
Joined: February 08, 2009
Posts: 1698
Location: The Old Pueblo
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| Posted: Sun Sep 24, 2017 7:05 am Post subject: Re: Two inch lift springs in a 2wd Vanagon? |
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Can the moogs be used front and back? or just front w something else used in the rear?
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Support Small Business.
-------------------------------------------------------
85 Weekender w/ EJ22
Previously
64, 71, 72, 73, 76, 81, 84, 85 & 87 Campmobiles and Westfalias
and a 67 bug. |
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E1
Samba Member
Joined: January 21, 2013
Posts: 6529
Location: Westfalia, Earth
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| Posted: Sun Sep 24, 2017 7:44 am Post subject: Re: Two inch lift springs in a 2wd Vanagon? |
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I had sag with my GW lifters within 1,000 miles... losing at least an inch!
The concept is great and likely perfect for a Tinny... but they need to offer two grades maybe 200 pounds in difference.
I personally find it in err they don't, Westys are far heavier of course and I think having heaviers on left and the current ones on the right would make a great solution for "driver's side lean" -- presuming one can find an installer conscientious enough to weigh vans BEFORE cashing checks. 
_________________
‘84 Westy, 2.1L with Digijet, 5.43 R+P, GT Gears
"Adding power makes you faster on the straights.
Subtracting weight makes you faster everywhere."
— Colin Chapman |
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davevickery
Samba Member
Joined: July 16, 2005
Posts: 2887
Location: Fort Collins, CO
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| Posted: Sun Sep 24, 2017 8:07 am Post subject: Re: Two inch lift springs in a 2wd Vanagon? |
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| AZ Landshaper wrote: |
| Can the moogs be used front and back? or just front w something else used in the rear? |
Just the front. I've never read any posts of a Moog that fits the back. There are plenty of options for the rear depending how high you are trying to sit. Syncro springs in the back of a 2wd are +2". GW Zero lift are around 17-17.5", as are the busdepot replacements and syncro.org. Stock (old used) early camper springs are around 16" but you can add spacers. You can add the monroe helper coil over shocks in the rear to gain an inch from whereever it started. There are air shocks too. I like the stock rear springs with spacers. They have those little pigtails on them which make the rear progressive rate and soak up the small bumps the best. Adding an extra spacer to the left rear side of a westy is pretty simple. |
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llilibel03
Samba Member
Joined: February 03, 2008
Posts: 767
Location: Redondo Beach California
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| Posted: Sun Sep 24, 2017 9:13 am Post subject: Re: Two inch lift springs in a 2wd Vanagon? |
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| davevickery wrote: |
| AZ Landshaper wrote: |
| Can the moogs be used front and back? or just front w something else used in the rear? |
Just the front. I've never read any posts of a Moog that fits the back. There are plenty of options for the rear depending how high you are trying to sit. Syncro springs in the back of a 2wd are +2". GW Zero lift are around 17-17.5", as are the busdepot replacements and syncro.org. Stock (old used) early camper springs are around 16" but you can add spacers. You can add the monroe helper coil over shocks in the rear to gain an inch from whereever it started. There are air shocks too. I like the stock rear springs with spacers. They have those little pigtails on them which make the rear progressive rate and soak up the small bumps the best. Adding an extra spacer to the left rear side of a westy is pretty simple. |
Is there a shock that you can recommend to mate with 5868s? i saw you went through the steps on replacing in another thread. i've also seen that my FLAPS rent spring compressors. Are there any specifics about the compressors newbie should be aware of?
_________________
87 syncro tintop
90 gl tin top
85 westy 2.0 tiico automatic (present) |
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AZ Landshaper
Samba Member
Joined: February 08, 2009
Posts: 1698
Location: The Old Pueblo
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| Posted: Sun Sep 24, 2017 10:02 am Post subject: Re: Two inch lift springs in a 2wd Vanagon? |
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I ordered the 5658s. The damn van bounces too much and the front is 1" lower than the rear. Makes a bunch of noise when it bounces. Hoping the new springs will reduce my bounce. The current springs have 180k on them and its been a hard 180. Cant hurt and after long pondering the 150 for Go westy I was sold on the $60.00 recommendation.
Now to deal w the backs which also have seen some abuse and mileage.
I want to ride level at around 17-17.5"
_________________
Support Small Business.
-------------------------------------------------------
85 Weekender w/ EJ22
Previously
64, 71, 72, 73, 76, 81, 84, 85 & 87 Campmobiles and Westfalias
and a 67 bug. |
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davevickery
Samba Member
Joined: July 16, 2005
Posts: 2887
Location: Fort Collins, CO
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| Posted: Sun Sep 24, 2017 10:10 am Post subject: Re: Two inch lift springs in a 2wd Vanagon? |
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| llilibel03 wrote: |
Is there a shock that you can recommend to mate with 5868s? i saw you went through the steps on replacing in another thread. i've also seen that my FLAPS rent spring compressors. Are there any specifics about the compressors newbie should be aware of? |
It's Moog 5658. https://www.amazon.com/Moog-5658-Coil-Spring-Set/d...=moog+5658 A stiffer shock may better because these springs are stiffer than the stock camper springs and about the same as the Carat springs (but longer). I used both stock shocks and Koni adjustable reds and they were both good. I didn't notice much if any difference between them. If you did Bilstein you would probably want the HD version.
The spring compressors they lend you are the wrong kind. It is hard to find a way to get both sides on and compress safely. But you don't really need one for these springs, it just takes a little longer undoing more stuff. I have one of these which is the right kind.
https://www.amazon.com/Goplus-MacPherson-Interchan...GN8EARS6D1 |
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E1
Samba Member
Joined: January 21, 2013
Posts: 6529
Location: Westfalia, Earth
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| Posted: Sun Sep 24, 2017 10:37 am Post subject: Re: Two inch lift springs in a 2wd Vanagon? |
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Is everyone measuring their ride heights with people aboard?
And gear as when trip-loaded?
_________________
‘84 Westy, 2.1L with Digijet, 5.43 R+P, GT Gears
"Adding power makes you faster on the straights.
Subtracting weight makes you faster everywhere."
— Colin Chapman |
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tjet 
Samba Member
Joined: June 10, 2014
Posts: 3533
Location: CA & NM
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| Posted: Sun Sep 24, 2017 12:42 pm Post subject: Re: Two inch lift springs in a 2wd Vanagon? |
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I put Van Cafe lift springs on my Syncro. After a month they went down about an inch. The Burley arms will help give you the correct camber, but be sure to install a pair of ball joint spacers as well. I think Go Westy has them.
I eventually reinstalled my old 35mm spacers along with my new VC lift springs. |
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E1
Samba Member
Joined: January 21, 2013
Posts: 6529
Location: Westfalia, Earth
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| Posted: Sun Sep 24, 2017 3:05 pm Post subject: Re: Two inch lift springs in a 2wd Vanagon? |
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I've been around racing engineers my whole life and these shops haven't a clue about suitability versus weight.
It is not up to the consumer to tell a vending "expert" whether a given suspension package will work. I've had far too many instances of same in my short 54 months of ownership.
Sorry to stray but this is very on topic; someone will get injured or die one of these days and fault will be entirely said vendors.
Reading threads like this are proof positive we all have to guess, and that ain't right.
_________________
‘84 Westy, 2.1L with Digijet, 5.43 R+P, GT Gears
"Adding power makes you faster on the straights.
Subtracting weight makes you faster everywhere."
— Colin Chapman |
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87vanwes
Samba Member
Joined: April 10, 2014
Posts: 204
Location: OBX NC
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| Posted: Sun Sep 24, 2017 4:27 pm Post subject: Re: Two inch lift springs in a 2wd Vanagon? |
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Just a heads up..
If your thinking a syncro conversion is in your future and looking to raise your van in the mean time. Installing the syncro front end would be a great start. There is a complete front end setup in the classifieds that looks like a great deal to me 900.00. It's in Atlanta GA. Very much within reach of you.
Maybe the more experienced could add the link.
_________________
Kevin
1987 westy syncro tdi conversion and restoration.
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=6...highlight= |
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E1
Samba Member
Joined: January 21, 2013
Posts: 6529
Location: Westfalia, Earth
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| Posted: Sun Sep 24, 2017 8:55 pm Post subject: Re: Two inch lift springs in a 2wd Vanagon? |
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If on a cell, I just highlight the URL and click "cut" so I know I got it all, then paste right into a post.
_________________
‘84 Westy, 2.1L with Digijet, 5.43 R+P, GT Gears
"Adding power makes you faster on the straights.
Subtracting weight makes you faster everywhere."
— Colin Chapman |
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Multiman mv
Samba Member
Joined: January 24, 2017
Posts: 987
Location: Martha's Vineyard, Ma
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| Posted: Mon Sep 25, 2017 3:00 am Post subject: Re: Two inch lift springs in a 2wd Vanagon? |
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| 87vanwes wrote: |
Just a heads up..
If your thinking a syncro conversion is in your future and looking to raise your van in the mean time. Installing the syncro front end would be a great start. There is a complete front end setup in the classifieds that looks like a great deal to me 900.00. It's in Atlanta GA. Very much within reach of you.
Maybe the more experienced could add the link. |
Great advice. Thank you for the tip. I hadn't really considered this before. I will look into it. |
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Steve M.
Samba Member
Joined: July 30, 2013
Posts: 6829
Location: Fort Lauderdale, Fl.
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| Posted: Mon Sep 25, 2017 5:37 am Post subject: Re: Two inch lift springs in a 2wd Vanagon? |
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Anybody ask yet about what size tires you have?
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This free advice is worth exactly what you paid for it.
There are seven days in a week. Someday is not one of them. |
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