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Magion Samba Member
Joined: February 15, 2016 Posts: 236 Location: Vancouver, BC
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Posted: Fri Sep 22, 2017 8:18 pm Post subject: Eberspacher Ba6 Problems |
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Hello everyone,
First off I wanna say I went through every existing eb6 topic I could find. For like 3 months.
My 1975 Westfalia has Ba6 heater that I have been trying to get running since the day I brought the bus home.
I replaced fuel line, installed brand new glow/spark plug, cleaned strainer, made sure all my ducts are free of any debris. Cleaned all the contacts.
Now the problem is it does bot want to start. I can get it start eventually. But it requires me to start up the engine and even then it takes a while. Then it smokes a lot. Smokes will clear up and the heater works. 2x so far to the point of blowing the overheting fuse. I am not really good with electric stuff. I think the problem is spark. When i take the spark plug out I am not getting any spark. I measured the current before coil and there is only 9,5V. On the blower engine with points I get 10,5V.
I wander if anyone here with experience would help me solve the mystery. Yes I do have all the manuals I could find here but again I am not really good with electric stuff. Any help appreciated! _________________ 1975 Westfalia in Brilliant Orange
1995 Westfalia in Caribbean Green |
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vwwestyman Samba Member
Joined: April 24, 2004 Posts: 5680 Location: Manhattan, Kansas, USA
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Posted: Fri Sep 22, 2017 8:35 pm Post subject: Re: Eberspacher Ba6 Problems |
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When you have the plug out and are checking for spark, are you grounding it somehow? If it isn't grounded, it won't spark.
With the low voltage, I'd go through every connection and make sure they are all clean and shiny. Low voltage may not allow the spark plug to generate a hot enough spark or the glow plug to warm enough to properly ignite the fuel. _________________ Dave Cook
President, Wild Westerner Club
1978 Champagne Edition Westy, repowered to '97 Jetta TDI
1973 Wild Westerner
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busdaddy Samba Member
Joined: February 12, 2004 Posts: 51057 Location: Surrey B.C. Canada, but thinking of Ukraine
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Posted: Sat Sep 23, 2017 11:10 am Post subject: Re: Eberspacher Ba6 Problems |
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Sounds to me like the points for the coil are dirty or corroded, lucky for you those are the ones on the fan end of the combustion motor and much easier to get at than the fuel pump points.
Edit: here's one of Jason's heater threads which I'm sure covers the points even though it's for a BN-4: https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=614419 _________________ Rust NEVER sleeps and stock never goes out of style.
Please don't PM technical questions, ask your problem in public so everyone can play along. If you think it's too stupid post it here
Stop dead photo links! Post your photos to The Samba Gallery!
Слава Україні! |
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moondogi1 Samba Member
Joined: June 11, 2008 Posts: 28 Location: Lakewood, Ca.
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Posted: Sat Sep 23, 2017 3:24 pm Post subject: Re: Eberspacher Ba6 Problems |
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Take a look at post from RONIO10. Eberspacher BA6 Tear down,Restoration and instillation. Posted 4-07-2016.
It was very helpful to me.😎 |
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Magion Samba Member
Joined: February 15, 2016 Posts: 236 Location: Vancouver, BC
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Posted: Sun Sep 24, 2017 11:41 am Post subject: Re: Eberspacher Ba6 Problems |
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Thank you guys for all the tips. I was kind of hoping to find someone who maybe had similar problems. I spend weekend trying to fire it up again and again. It always takes a while before it starts up. Then s lot of smoke which I assume it would be the build up fuel. Sometimes when I twist the temp. Regulating switch the pump either stops ticking sometimes not. One one occasion I switched it off and it was still running for a bit. To me it looks like too much fuel. I am trying to wrap my head around it. I am not quite sure how it suppose to work in term of the amount of heat it produces. The Amount of fuel delivered depends on how many rpms the blower fan does right? Assuming of course my pump is set up properly. I had the blower an out so many times. I cleaned both points. Besides some pitting (small) they look just fine to me. I meadured the current in the cabin and it looks like I get 12V on the main fuse, then down at the relay still 12V and then it looks like it goes down under. I am lost _________________ 1975 Westfalia in Brilliant Orange
1995 Westfalia in Caribbean Green |
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busdaddy Samba Member
Joined: February 12, 2004 Posts: 51057 Location: Surrey B.C. Canada, but thinking of Ukraine
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Posted: Sun Sep 24, 2017 12:04 pm Post subject: Re: Eberspacher Ba6 Problems |
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Sounds fairly straightforward to me, no spark will make it hard to light, especially with low voltage or an old glow plug.
So find out why there's no spark, is there power to the coil?, does the coil have continuity?, does the HT lead make a spark when off the plug?, etc....
Running on after shutdown is normal if it was lit, it has to cool off it's internals and use up all the fuel before shutting off. Pump output can be measured using a graduated syringe, the manual specifies how many CC's it should pump over a specific number of pulses.
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/archives/manuals/1977eberspacher_ba6_repair_manual.php _________________ Rust NEVER sleeps and stock never goes out of style.
Please don't PM technical questions, ask your problem in public so everyone can play along. If you think it's too stupid post it here
Stop dead photo links! Post your photos to The Samba Gallery!
Слава Україні! |
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Magion Samba Member
Joined: February 15, 2016 Posts: 236 Location: Vancouver, BC
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Posted: Sun Sep 24, 2017 12:29 pm Post subject: Re: Eberspacher Ba6 Problems |
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The plug is new. Coil has continuity.As far as the run off goes it works as it should. I was trying to say running off with combustion going on. Like all the switches off while flame was still present (pump off as well), scary.
My understanding is that low voltage leads to weak spark, therefore the problems with igniting. What I do not understand is why I only have 10 volts on the blower fan. Honestly I was looking at the wiring diagram and I am not able to tell where does the power come from to it _________________ 1975 Westfalia in Brilliant Orange
1995 Westfalia in Caribbean Green |
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cmonSTART Samba Member
Joined: July 15, 2014 Posts: 1915 Location: NH
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Posted: Sun Sep 24, 2017 3:25 pm Post subject: Re: Eberspacher Ba6 Problems |
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I feel your pain! I fought with mine a few years ago...
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The Amount of fuel delivered depends on how many rpms the blower fan does right? |
Not really - the blower just turns at max RPMs, around 8000 (?) or so IIRC. The air temp sensor at the exit cycles the fuel pump on and off to control the heat, but the blower spins max RPM all the time.
If your system is like my 78, it's rubber mounted, so the plug has to have a separate ground connected to the one spade terminal - if that's not good spark doesn't happen.
There is a technical repair manual floating around here for the BA6 - it was a tremendous help with mine. I'll see if I can locate it and post a link.
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What I do not understand is why I only have 10 volts on the blower fan. Honestly I was looking at the wiring diagram and I am not able to tell where does the power come from to it |
I think this is because there is a resistor in play before the heater reaches a certain temp - some sort of safety. At least with mine, it runs at a reduced rate for the first couple minutes. Once it reaches a certain temperature a relay clicks and clearly the voltage jumps and it runs faster/hotter. Maybe one of the Eberspacher experts can chime in here.... _________________ '78 Bus 2.0FI
de K1IGS |
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busdaddy Samba Member
Joined: February 12, 2004 Posts: 51057 Location: Surrey B.C. Canada, but thinking of Ukraine
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Posted: Sun Sep 24, 2017 3:46 pm Post subject: Re: Eberspacher Ba6 Problems |
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cmonSTART wrote: |
Quote: |
What I do not understand is why I only have 10 volts on the blower fan. Honestly I was looking at the wiring diagram and I am not able to tell where does the power come from to it |
I think this is because there is a resistor in play before the heater reaches a certain temp - some sort of safety. At least with mine, it runs at a reduced rate for the first couple minutes. Once it reaches a certain temperature a relay clicks and clearly the voltage jumps and it runs faster/hotter. Maybe one of the Eberspacher experts can chime in here.... |
No resistor.
The lower fan speed is due to a voltage drop while the glow plug is in operation, once the flame lights and warms the flame switch enough the glow plug shuts off, the resulting sudden lack of amp load speeds up the fan. Good grounds and tight terminals help reduce this as well as speed up lighting. The belly mount version is more suceptible to dirty terminals and corrosion due to road exposure.
The flame continues to burn for a while after the pump stops, the combustion chamber is lined with asbestos fabric and the fuel nozzles is just a simple drip onto that finned impingement ring on the tip of the combustion blower fan, it spins the fuel out onto that "wick" where it burns in a ring, until all the soaked in fuel evaporates out of the fabric it'll stay burning. Even worse if it has no spark and takes a while to light, more fuel soaks into the fabric before the glow coil gets hot enough to light and it starts to burn it off, smokey too, especially if it's been sitting. _________________ Rust NEVER sleeps and stock never goes out of style.
Please don't PM technical questions, ask your problem in public so everyone can play along. If you think it's too stupid post it here
Stop dead photo links! Post your photos to The Samba Gallery!
Слава Україні! |
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Magion Samba Member
Joined: February 15, 2016 Posts: 236 Location: Vancouver, BC
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Posted: Sun Sep 24, 2017 4:00 pm Post subject: Re: Eberspacher Ba6 Problems |
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That is what I am kind of hoping for...
I almost want to give up on it. I spend couple of hours under playing around with volt meter and such. Pretty sure my issue here is there is no spark. When I measure the current (and I am not even sure if its possible since it should be interupted because of points) that goes to the coil - 9-10V. I did measure the continuity on the coil - looks good, checked the connection between coil and spark - ok too. No spark. Then I adjusted the points on blower for 0.016 / 0,4mm. No spark. When i insert a tip of screwdriver in between the sparkplug like I am trying to get the gap smaller then I get spark. But I have to make the gap really small
I do not really need it. I just want to get it up and running because if its alreday there it would be so nice to have it running. Insurace will expire in less then a month so I will not be driving in winter. As a matter of fact I even avoid rain. I have seen the car from bottom . _________________ 1975 Westfalia in Brilliant Orange
1995 Westfalia in Caribbean Green |
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Magion Samba Member
Joined: February 15, 2016 Posts: 236 Location: Vancouver, BC
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Posted: Sun Sep 24, 2017 4:07 pm Post subject: Re: Eberspacher Ba6 Problems |
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It all makes sense what you are saying busdaddy. I was not aware of the glow element shutting down. I thought it stays on...
As far as the grounds go I found two. One near the coil and another one near the circulation fan. _________________ 1975 Westfalia in Brilliant Orange
1995 Westfalia in Caribbean Green |
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notchboy Samba Member
Joined: April 27, 2002 Posts: 22416 Location: Escondido CA
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Posted: Sun Sep 24, 2017 4:13 pm Post subject: Re: Eberspacher Ba6 Problems |
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Link
Link
The easiest way to see if you have spark is to take the plug out. Disconnect the leads to the fuel pump and turn on the unit. Keep the plug wired up then touch it to chassis ground either on the bus or the BA6.
Link
If your plug is good then the ground is bad, the coil is bad, the amps to the heater are bad, not enough fuel.............or the new plug is bad. All I can think about. Use the troubleshooting graph BusDaddy posted.
Good luck and always remember I suck at electrical. Actually never learned the correct way on doing it all. I figured out this heater stuff, so you can too. _________________
t3kg wrote: |
OK, this thread is over. You win. |
Jason "notchboy" Weigel
1964 1500 S
1964 T34 S Convertible
1977 Westfalia Camper pop-top |
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