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With remote spin-on oil filter, omit strainer?
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Captain Spalding
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 24, 2017 8:58 pm    Post subject: With remote spin-on oil filter, omit strainer? Reply with quote

Hello everyone.

I'm running a 1915 with a deep sump, oil cooler and fan, and remote spin-on oil filter. Can I run it without the strainer? Please offer an explanation with your opinion.

Thanks in advance,

Spalding
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modok
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 24, 2017 10:35 pm    Post subject: Re: With remote spin-on oil filter, omit strainer? Reply with quote

I think you should read up on it first, then ask questions.

Threads I used the word "slurp'
oh ignore five lug....his thread comes up in any search at this point!
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/search.php?searc..._chars=200
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 24, 2017 10:42 pm    Post subject: Re: With remote spin-on oil filter, omit strainer? Reply with quote

I personally feel it's a bad idea to get rid of the strainer as it acts as a decent prefilter to keep any potential debris from obstructing the pickup tube or messing up the pump. In fact, if you take a look at many oil pumps found in more modern engines equipped with spin on filters, you'll find the pump inlet has some type of screen or guard to protect the inlet.
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 25, 2017 1:04 am    Post subject: Re: With remote spin-on oil filter, omit strainer? Reply with quote

modok wrote:
I think you should read up on it first, then ask questions.

Threads I used the word "slurp'
oh ignore five lug....his thread comes up in any search at this point!
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/search.php?searc..._chars=200


Yeah, ignore the guy who successfully built his first big stroke motor in spite of the naysayers. No failed cam or lifters on break in. Purrs like a kitten at idle and lights up the tires with ease.

Be careful who you listen to on here....they get off on leading people astray.

Listen to modok....read read and read some more. You'll figure it out.
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 25, 2017 2:42 am    Post subject: Re: With remote spin-on oil filter, omit strainer? Reply with quote

Ha! nothing personal man. If we did discuss oil pickups in your build thread then it's probably a fine resource also but I'm not "going in there" to find it.
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 25, 2017 5:12 am    Post subject: Re: With remote spin-on oil filter, omit strainer? Reply with quote

Popcorn


Personal opinion is that it doesnt hurt. The only problem is that you may forget you have it and it should be pulled, checked and cleaned on occasion. I think I do the one on our buggy every third of fourth oil change (deep sump and filter/pump)
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 25, 2017 5:41 am    Post subject: Re: With remote spin-on oil filter, omit strainer? Reply with quote

I never put that screen in if I'm running a full flow with filter. If you have chunks big enough to be stopped by the screen, you won't go much longer anyway. The filter catches anything big or small before it has a chance to go through the engine.
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 25, 2017 6:23 am    Post subject: Re: With remote spin-on oil filter, omit strainer? Reply with quote

Type IV's have screens and have stock Spin On Oil Filters.
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 25, 2017 6:30 am    Post subject: Re: With remote spin-on oil filter, omit strainer? Reply with quote

Howard 111 wrote:
I never put that screen in if I'm running a full flow with filter. If you have chunks big enough to be stopped by the screen, you won't go much longer anyway. The filter catches anything big or small before it has a chance to go through the engine.


But isn't your filter AFTER the pump?
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 25, 2017 7:00 am    Post subject: Re: With remote spin-on oil filter, omit strainer? Reply with quote

Technical Information from Berg


Oil strainer information. An area of extreme importance. The inlet or suction side of any pump is extremely limited in what it can do as compared to the pressure side and should never be impaired in any way, whereas the pressure side is capable of overcoming a great deal of extra resistance. For that reason, I have not used the stock oil strainer in any of my high performance street or race engines since 1966. I found that it often caused too much restriction on the suction side of the oil pump with a little higher performance and high RPM engines. This problem was traced to oil starvation and all out bearing and/or crankshaft failures from the oil not being able to pass through the stock restrictive oil strainer screen fast enough to provide adequate flow to the pump.
Contamination was a concern, however, all of my engines from 1961-on had full flow oil filters protecting the engine. Some concern about metal particles going into the oil pump before filtering was solved when I went to the farm supply house and bought a "cow" magnet that is about 1/2" round by 3" long. I hose clamped it on the outside of the pickup tube extension for the larger sump. I have used this configuration successfully for over 30 years. For those that do not know, a cow magnet is what they feed the cows to pick up metal (such as broken barbed wire) from the stomach and pass it out of their system.
Another concern is the weight of the oil. Remember, the heavier the oil, the less it lubricates. We run 20 weight in our race engines and 10-30 weight in all street engines. Only if the temperature is constantly above 80-85 degrees would I consider 10-40 weight. 5-30 should be used when temperature falls to below 45 degrees. For freezing temperatures straight 10 weight would be my choice.
The point is, if bearing life is substandard or failures have occurred, these are items you should be looking at.
Originated by Gene Berg in 1964
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 25, 2017 7:20 am    Post subject: Re: With remote spin-on oil filter, omit strainer? Reply with quote

I have the strainer on both my engines with the CB Maxi2 pump/filter.

1835cc engine - this way since 1986

1600 engine - this way since early 2017

Yes, the strainer has been clean when I checked it. No, I do not drop the strainer that often now.
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 25, 2017 7:46 am    Post subject: Re: With remote spin-on oil filter, omit strainer? Reply with quote

I have heard to keep the strainer to stabilize the pickup tube. Just my 2 cents I have no personal experience.
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 25, 2017 8:57 am    Post subject: Re: With remote spin-on oil filter, omit strainer? Reply with quote

we used to recommend no strainer, but over 10 years ago changed back to keeping the strainer even with a full flow filter, because we saw a few cases of metal fatigued pick up tubes from vibration. The strainer dampens it so it never occurs. It's more prevalent on the lengthened ones for deep sumps.

If you are worried about restriction, get the cheaper strainers, they have a coarser mesh than the others. Your focus is to screen out big chunks, and stabilize the pick up tube.
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 25, 2017 9:34 am    Post subject: Re: With remote spin-on oil filter, omit strainer? Reply with quote

in 25 years, I have never built an engine without an oil strainer installed. Full flow, filter pump, deep sump.....doesn't matter. Install the strainer.
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 25, 2017 9:37 am    Post subject: Re: With remote spin-on oil filter, omit strainer? Reply with quote

Howard 111 wrote:
Technical Information from Berg


Oil strainer information. An area of extreme importance. The inlet or suction side of any pump is extremely limited in what it can do as compared to the pressure side and should never be impaired in any way, whereas the pressure side is capable of overcoming a great deal of extra resistance. For that reason, I have not used the stock oil strainer in any of my high performance street or race engines since 1966. I found that it often caused too much restriction on the suction side of the oil pump with a little higher performance and high RPM engines. This problem was traced to oil starvation and all out bearing and/or crankshaft failures from the oil not being able to pass through the stock restrictive oil strainer screen fast enough to provide adequate flow to the pump.
Contamination was a concern, however, all of my engines from 1961-on had full flow oil filters protecting the engine. Some concern about metal particles going into the oil pump before filtering was solved when I went to the farm supply house and bought a "cow" magnet that is about 1/2" round by 3" long. I hose clamped it on the outside of the pickup tube extension for the larger sump. I have used this configuration successfully for over 30 years. For those that do not know, a cow magnet is what they feed the cows to pick up metal (such as broken barbed wire) from the stomach and pass it out of their system.
Another concern is the weight of the oil. Remember, the heavier the oil, the less it lubricates. We run 20 weight in our race engines and 10-30 weight in all street engines. Only if the temperature is constantly above 80-85 degrees would I consider 10-40 weight. 5-30 should be used when temperature falls to below 45 degrees. For freezing temperatures straight 10 weight would be my choice.
The point is, if bearing life is substandard or failures have occurred, these are items you should be looking at.
Originated by Gene Berg in 1964



Sorry...Gene Berg was/is a genius....but....a lot of assumptions had to be made to make that statement.

I highly doubt the stock strainer was a source of restriction. I have seen oil pumps on LARGE industrial engines, machines and trucks...all of which have a strainer not much different or larger than a VW...with oil pumps MUCH larger than any VW....and with oil weights heavier than we use....and they have 0 issues with restrictions.

The actual open area of the strainer is MASSIVE compared to the open port diameter of the pump...and the mesh size is actually quite large. Unlesss you are using 50 weight oil and its "0" outside...the chances of the actual strainer being a restriction to oil flowing back to the center through the mesh to the oil pickup for even the largest non-dry sump type pump...is remote.

And....exactly how can you determine if its the actual strainer being restrictive or so many other items being restrictive...as he noted he was also using full flow oil filters...none of which were stock on a type 1...and through hoses, fittings, thermostats etc....you likely had many more chances for upstream restriction than downstream restriction.

I see no downsides to using the strainer. Ray
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 25, 2017 9:42 am    Post subject: Re: With remote spin-on oil filter, omit strainer? Reply with quote

all bergeites aside.... ( no I wont read what berg said,thought or was quoted as saying) just use the strainer so it keeps shit from the filter .The filter catches small particulate from wear. the screen catches big shit witch may not make it to the filter due to the oil pump locking up from the big shit trying to get through it.
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 25, 2017 10:33 am    Post subject: Re: With remote spin-on oil filter, omit strainer? Reply with quote

Thanks everyone for your opinions.
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 25, 2017 10:53 am    Post subject: Re: With remote spin-on oil filter, omit strainer? Reply with quote

I cleaned my strainer on my rebuilt engine (I'll have to check but less than 5000 miles) and I caught a small piece of plastic and some probably non-magnetic flakes in the strainer, even though I have a post-pump full flow filter. I'll take pictures next week and share, but I'd rather not send that crap through the pump. Late model screens have a spring bypass, too.
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