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Paul.H Samba Member
Joined: April 03, 2015 Posts: 613 Location: England
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Posted: Sat Mar 25, 2017 5:22 am Post subject: Re: "Official" Crank Trigger Ignition Information |
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Glenn wrote: |
raul arrese wrote: |
this is the mini cam sensor from the Dub shop , its an easy way to go sequential .. |
^^^^^^^^
This does not eliminate the "slop" in the brass gear, driveshaft and drive dog. |
I run triggers off the distributor drive and "slop" is not an issue. This is putting the spark scatter you get with springy bob weights, flying flame rotor arm and flip flopping vac cans down to backlash |
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chrisflstf Samba Member
Joined: February 10, 2004 Posts: 3444 Location: San Diego
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Posted: Sat Mar 25, 2017 10:10 am Post subject: Re: "Official" Crank Trigger Ignition Information |
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Lots of good info here guys. Thx |
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EVfun Samba Member
Joined: April 01, 2012 Posts: 5481 Location: Seattle
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Posted: Sat Mar 25, 2017 3:52 pm Post subject: Re: "Official" Crank Trigger Ignition Information |
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Is anyone running a standalone crank trigger ignition? Are there any kits for that available? I'm aware of the CB Performance programmable distributors, but not any crank trigger version off the shelf. One could ditch the whole distributor/ fuel pump drive. With Mario's nice 36-1 pulley and pickup it could tuck away nicely in an open engine compartment. Considering that is the only machine parts involved it should be quite affordable. _________________
Wildthings wrote: |
As a general rule, cheap parts are the most expensive parts you can buy. |
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Dale M. Samba Member
Joined: April 12, 2006 Posts: 20379 Location: Just a tiny bit west of Yosemite Valley
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Posted: Sat Mar 25, 2017 5:38 pm Post subject: Re: "Official" Crank Trigger Ignition Information |
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EVfun wrote: |
Is anyone running a standalone crank trigger ignition? Are there any kits for that available? I'm aware of the CB Performance programmable distributors, but not any crank trigger version off the shelf. One could ditch the whole distributor/ fuel pump drive. With Mario's nice 36-1 pulley and pickup it could tuck away nicely in an open engine compartment. Considering that is the only machine parts involved it should be quite affordable. |
Megajolt is pretty close...
https://wiki.autosportlabs.com/MegaJolt_Lite_Jr.
Might have to use EDIS module and possible adapt it to use CB's or "The Dub Shop" trigger setup with MegaJolt and it pretty much fits the bill of ignition only...
Might be able to adapt it to COP also...
You might want to do a little snooping here...
http://www.shoptalkforums.com/viewforum.php?f=63
Dale _________________ “Fear The Government That Wants To Take Your Guns" - Thomas Jefferson.
"Kellison Sand Piper Roadster" For Street & Show.
"Joe Pody Sandrover" Buggy with 2180 for Autocross (Sold)
============================================================
All suggestions and advice are purely my own opinion. You are free to ignore them if you wish ... |
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jfats808 Samba Member
Joined: December 10, 2007 Posts: 5022 Location: oahu hawaii
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Posted: Wed Apr 05, 2017 11:06 am Post subject: Re: "Official" Crank Trigger Ignition Information |
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EVfun wrote: |
Is anyone running a standalone crank trigger ignition? Are there any kits for that available? I'm aware of the CB Performance programmable distributors, but not any crank trigger version off the shelf. One could ditch the whole distributor/ fuel pump drive. With Mario's nice 36-1 pulley and pickup it could tuck away nicely in an open engine compartment. Considering that is the only machine parts involved it should be quite affordable. |
Actually..... yes I run cb. See below.
https://www.cbperformance.com/product-p/2094.htm
If you want to run FI, this wont be feasible. MS would be a better choice or a Dubshop system. _________________ 2276 IDA's 86C 11-1 DD !
2017 48 Trijet DRLA's W125
Rockstar Suzuki wrote: |
You might as well put 10 year build in your bullshit sig, as it will NEVER run. Also your a dick |
You can always learn something new, even from a fool.
Check your oil levels routinely! |
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EVfun Samba Member
Joined: April 01, 2012 Posts: 5481 Location: Seattle
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Posted: Wed Apr 05, 2017 8:04 pm Post subject: Re: "Official" Crank Trigger Ignition Information |
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I want to thank both of you for pointing out some options. I'm not sure why I missed the CB system.
My thought was that if one built an engine for crank fire from the get-go the whole distributor drive system could be left out and even the condition of the brass gear on the crank isn't important. A crank fire system doesn't look that expensive if part of a fresh build, a complete and fully adjustable ignition system for about $600. With the Megajolt/E that price could include the beautiful pulley with hidden 36-1 wheel and pickup from TheDubShop. Some ebay salvage parts and installing the 36-1 wheel on your own and plenty of distributor setups would cost more. _________________
Wildthings wrote: |
As a general rule, cheap parts are the most expensive parts you can buy. |
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clonebug Samba Member
Joined: January 29, 2005 Posts: 4027 Location: NW Washington
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Posted: Sun Apr 09, 2017 7:48 pm Post subject: Re: "Official" Crank Trigger Ignition Information |
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You aren't that far away from Mario......
I dropped off my Aluminum pulley at his shop and had him get it machined and install the 36-1 toothed wheel in it. He gave it back to me with the VR sensor, trigger wheel installed and the VR bracket so I could install it in my garage when I was doing a winter upgrade.
It might seem to be pricey but in the end it will be the last ignition system you will ever need to buy. They are bullet proof and need no adjustment once installed.
Install the ignition and start gathering parts for Fuel Injection.....you know you'll want to........
Keep a look out for injectors.....no sense going any lower than 32# since they will support up to 200 hp at 85% dc and still give a great idle on a 1600 engine.
Look for a stock German Beetle Throttle body or a Mexican setup for that matter.
Unfortunately CB Performance stopped making the stock style FI endpieces and only have the hi-flow at a higher price.
The stock style were a great way to get into FI for a reasonable price.
Mario is starting to market the Microsquirt ECU for ignition only setups but they support FI so it will be a simple step up if anyone ever wanted to.
EVfun wrote: |
I want to thank both of you for pointing out some options. I'm not sure why I missed the CB system.
My thought was that if one built an engine for crank fire from the get-go the whole distributor drive system could be left out and even the condition of the brass gear on the crank isn't important. A crank fire system doesn't look that expensive if part of a fresh build, a complete and fully adjustable ignition system for about $600. With the Megajolt/E that price could include the beautiful pulley with hidden 36-1 wheel and pickup from TheDubShop. Some ebay salvage parts and installing the 36-1 wheel on your own and plenty of distributor setups would cost more. |
_________________
vwracerdave wrote: |
Take a good long look in the mirror and report back on what you see. |
Paul.H wrote: |
That one line on that chart is probably better info than you can get from this place in a month |
My Megasquirt Fuel Injection Turbo Buggy Build
Water/Alcohol Injection
Audi TT intercooler
Upgraded to MS3Pro-Evo
EcuMaster PMU16
ECUMaster ADU5 Digital Dash
http://www.shoptalkforums.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=127936 |
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karu Samba Member
Joined: November 11, 2008 Posts: 229 Location: Cross Lanes, WV
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Posted: Tue Oct 03, 2017 4:37 am Post subject: Re: "Official" Crank Trigger Ignition Information |
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This is another substitution for MS/megajolt.
https://speeduino.com/wiki/index.php/Speeduino
This is the route I am planning on taking if and when I go efi. |
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stanthedog Samba Member
Joined: October 11, 2006 Posts: 357 Location: Portland,oregon.
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Posted: Wed Mar 21, 2018 1:37 pm Post subject: Re: "Official" Crank Trigger Ignition Information |
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Do these systems pull the timing back when cruising or are they fixed kinda like a digital version of a mechanical dizzy. |
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Stripped66 Samba Member
Joined: May 31, 2005 Posts: 3470 Location: Charleston, SC
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Posted: Wed Mar 21, 2018 7:29 pm Post subject: Re: "Official" Crank Trigger Ignition Information |
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stanthedog wrote: |
Do these systems pull the timing back when cruising or are they fixed kinda like a digital version of a mechanical dizzy. |
These systems use RPM x MAP tables to program your timing curve...you can program whatever "mechanical" and engine vacuum ("engine load") advance you want. _________________
66brm wrote: |
Bodacious wrote: |
Why not just make a custom set of wires with a Y splice in them. Then you could just run one distributor. |
I don't think electrickery works that way |
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stanthedog Samba Member
Joined: October 11, 2006 Posts: 357 Location: Portland,oregon.
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Posted: Fri Mar 23, 2018 1:26 pm Post subject: Re: "Official" Crank Trigger Ignition Information |
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I'm really thinking of going this route. Another question- where am I going to get the map signal, I'm running duel 44idf's. and, does someone have timing curves.With a w120 cam, can I use a MAP sensor. |
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kangaboy Samba Member
Joined: August 28, 2010 Posts: 1063 Location: St. Louis, Mo
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Posted: Wed Apr 04, 2018 7:58 am Post subject: Re: "Official" Crank Trigger Ignition Information |
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stanthedog wrote: |
I'm really thinking of going this route. Another question- where am I going to get the map signal, I'm running duel 44idf's. and, does someone have timing curves.With a w120 cam, can I use a MAP sensor. |
If you have ports in the manifold or vac ports on the IDFs, that would be best. I think a balance tube between the two banks with a tee in it would give the best results. Same kinda think you would do with a vac can on a distributor. If you don't have ports already and have to put some in, just make sure they are somewhere below the butterflies. _________________ -74 Standard - "CaliBug" 2084T, MS3X w/FI and Crank Fire
-76 Westy - "Gandalf"
-18 GTI SE
skills@eurocarsplus wrote: |
that fucking thing looks like it drove through a J.C. Whitney catalogue and hit everything on the way out |
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stanthedog Samba Member
Joined: October 11, 2006 Posts: 357 Location: Portland,oregon.
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Posted: Fri Apr 06, 2018 8:01 pm Post subject: Re: "Official" Crank Trigger Ignition Information |
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I can drill and tap my manifolds easy enough (not currently on the car) But Will I get a good enough vac signal with my w120 cam and 42mm valves? |
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Chickensoup Samba Member
Joined: January 06, 2018 Posts: 5368 Location: Good Hope, GA
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Posted: Thu Nov 07, 2019 1:10 pm Post subject: Re: "Official" Crank Trigger Ignition Information |
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Can a few people please post some pics of their trigger wheel setup that came off of a production car?
Thanks |
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iowa vw Samba Member
Joined: November 08, 2006 Posts: 588 Location: Los Angeles, CA 90036
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Posted: Thu Nov 07, 2019 2:15 pm Post subject: Re: "Official" Crank Trigger Ignition Information |
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kangaboy wrote: |
stanthedog wrote: |
I'm really thinking of going this route. Another question- where am I going to get the map signal, I'm running duel 44idf's. and, does someone have timing curves.With a w120 cam, can I use a MAP sensor. |
If you have ports in the manifold or vac ports on the IDFs, that would be best. I think a balance tube between the two banks with a tee in it would give the best results. Same kinda think you would do with a vac can on a distributor. If you don't have ports already and have to put some in, just make sure they are somewhere below the butterflies. |
I drilled and tapped ports at the top of the manifold and then routed to a custom block I made to then go to the control box. The block also has the fuel distribution and gauge incorporated into it, that what the gauge is for.
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francoangellini Samba Member
Joined: January 10, 2012 Posts: 223 Location: Chile-South America
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Posted: Wed Aug 19, 2020 2:04 pm Post subject: Re: "Official" Crank Trigger Ignition Information |
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...Hi guys;
This system does it basically use the same "compufire dis-ix" coils type ? |
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Dale M. Samba Member
Joined: April 12, 2006 Posts: 20379 Location: Just a tiny bit west of Yosemite Valley
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Posted: Wed Aug 19, 2020 2:30 pm Post subject: Re: "Official" Crank Trigger Ignition Information |
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francoangellini wrote: |
...Hi guys;
This system does it basically use the same "compufire dis-ix" coils type ? |
It depends of what type of system you have to trigger and fire coils... You can use wasted spark (DIS-IX) type coils or individual coils for each plug....
"Crank Fire" is more about how to trigger ignition, most common is to use a 36-1 tooth tone ring on crank shaft pulley to tell CPU when to fire coils...
The Compu-fire system uses the distributor "model" system to fire coils...
Dale _________________ “Fear The Government That Wants To Take Your Guns" - Thomas Jefferson.
"Kellison Sand Piper Roadster" For Street & Show.
"Joe Pody Sandrover" Buggy with 2180 for Autocross (Sold)
============================================================
All suggestions and advice are purely my own opinion. You are free to ignore them if you wish ... |
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itsawesty Samba Member
Joined: April 25, 2016 Posts: 101 Location: St Albans, UK
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Posted: Tue Sep 01, 2020 10:27 am Post subject: Re: "Official" Crank Trigger Ignition Information |
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recently got my 59 Ghia on CB magnaspark crank trigger up and running. I'm also running Dubshop hidden crank sensor.
Fired right up, cam burn done and carbs synced. I now want to confirm my timing actual vs the map (timing offset or indexing the sensor).
I have an adjustable timing light. Whats everyone process for indexing the sensor? Fire it up, get the rpm stable, adjust timing light until TDC mark is aligned with the case seam and enter the offset in the settings (+/- the difference timing light dial vs the map).
_________________ '59 Ghia build thread https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=737729
'73 Westy
'90 Scirocco
2003 911
www.hertfordshirevehiclestorage.com |
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Steve Arndt Samba Member
Joined: August 01, 2005 Posts: 1780 Location: Boise, Idaho
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Posted: Tue Sep 01, 2020 1:24 pm Post subject: Re: "Official" Crank Trigger Ignition Information |
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If you have a degree pulley then set your timing in your ECU locked to 10 degrees. At idle check timing with a timing light. If it isn't 10 on the pulley then adjust + / - offset in ECU until it reads 10.
On my ECU the only LOCK I can do is at zero timing so I have to give it a little extra air to idle while I do this. Set offset so the pulley reading matches software commanded timing.
Also use a non adjustable timing light. The adjustable kinds read weird with sequential (and waste spark) unless you have a fancy digital adjustable light compatible with these systems. I just grab a non adjustable for this check. _________________ Steve
Steve's 87 Syncro project |
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Reverand Hope Samba Member
Joined: September 21, 2020 Posts: 19 Location: UK
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Posted: Mon Oct 26, 2020 12:33 pm Post subject: Re: "Official" Crank Trigger Ignition Information |
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stanthedog wrote: |
I can drill and tap my manifolds easy enough (not currently on the car) But Will I get a good enough vac signal with my w120 cam and 42mm valves? |
provided your MAP sensor is sufficiently sensitive, you can use a relatively 'weak' signal to affect changes in programmable ignition timing. The key is to try to make the signal as steady as possible with whatever carbs/TBs you're using. My 1776 (Bus) is running on twin IDFS (28mm chokes) and a 110 cam, stock valves (IIRC). I use the four manometer fittings below the throttle plates for a signal (2 short hoses T'eed at each carb, then T'eed again into the ECU via an anti pulse valve. I see 60 KPA at idle (850 RPM) with approximately 5 KPA variance which is acceptable. This will improve as I tweak the map. |
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