Author |
Message |
furgo Samba Member
Joined: September 06, 2016 Posts: 944 Location: Southern Germany
|
Posted: Tue May 02, 2017 5:04 am Post subject: Late Bay Westfalia bench locking mechanism |
|
|
Hi,
I'm trying to understand and possibly fix the locking mechanism for the Westfalia bench/bed on my late bay. That is, what fastens the seat lid when the assembly is in the bench position.
Looking at this picture from the eche_bus thread, I seem to be missing the silver bracket that is attached to the front bottom of the lid by two screws.
The bracket seems to mate a holder on the bench wall, which I do have.
I've seen a blog post about mounting an aftermarket locking mechanism that is quite neat, and I've been wondering if the stock bracket actually locks the lid.
I've got a couple of questions regarding the bracket:
• What's its common name or part number? (I've looked at the Greg Lindquist Parts Pictorial, but there I only found the mating part which I already have - "#15 - Steel (Stock) Guide Cover for Lock: Bottom Cushion 231.070.238")
• Is it really a locking mechanism or more of a guide for closing the lid?
• If it's simple enough, is it worth attempting a DIY build, or should I be better off with the aftermarket locking mechanism? If not, does anyone have the dimensions or pictures?
Thanks. _________________ '79 Westy, P22 interior, FI 2.0 l Federal, GE engine (hydraulic lifters)
Decode your M-Plate |
|
Back to top |
|
|
BayCreamPuff Samba Member
Joined: August 10, 2015 Posts: 769 Location: Oakland, CA
|
Posted: Tue May 02, 2017 8:04 am Post subject: Re: Late Bay Westfalia bench locking mechanism |
|
|
Not sure what any of it is actually called, but I just refer to the whole thing as the bench latch.
Mine was missing the guide cover and I actually bought that chrome one from Greg (he had already sold the other one).
So the whole thing is made up of 3 distinct parts
1. Guide and catch plate from greg's pictures which is mounted to the face of the bench.
2. spring-loaded latch that is mounted to the back and sits inside the hole.
3. L bracket mounted to the bottom of the seat that locks the seat in place.
Here are some photos of mine.
_________________ Cream Puff
'79 CA Stock FI Deluxe Campmobile
Earl Grey
'87 GoWesty 2.2 Westfalia
Marsha Mellow
'00 Eurovan VR6 Full Camper |
|
Back to top |
|
|
furgo Samba Member
Joined: September 06, 2016 Posts: 944 Location: Southern Germany
|
Posted: Tue May 02, 2017 2:54 pm Post subject: Re: Late Bay Westfalia bench locking mechanism |
|
|
That's fantastic, thank you BayCreamPuff for the awesome pictures!
Bench latch sounds like a good name to me. So it seems I've got 1 and 2 and I'm only missing the L bracket.
Given that a) it looks like quite a robust assembly b) the two screws that would hold the L bracket are still in there, I'm guessing that the PO removed it on purpose. I'm wondering why. Is the mechanism difficult to operate, or does it make it a pain to lift the bench seat?
In any case, would someone have the dimensions for the L bracket? I can guess some of them from my bench, but it would be great to have some idea of what at least know what W, L, H, D1 and d2 are. Also the thickness.
Here's a quick sketch of what I'll probably have to end up creating, as I could not find the part anywhere:
Thanks! _________________ '79 Westy, P22 interior, FI 2.0 l Federal, GE engine (hydraulic lifters)
Decode your M-Plate |
|
Back to top |
|
|
AJPinVT Samba Member
Joined: September 08, 2016 Posts: 13 Location: Vermont
|
Posted: Thu May 18, 2017 7:04 am Post subject: Re: Late Bay Westfalia bench locking mechanism |
|
|
I'm looking to fabricate this latch as well. Wondering if anyone can provide the basic measurements (L,W, H, D1) furgo has requested. Thanks! |
|
Back to top |
|
|
BayCreamPuff Samba Member
Joined: August 10, 2015 Posts: 769 Location: Oakland, CA
|
Posted: Thu May 18, 2017 9:07 am Post subject: Re: Late Bay Westfalia bench locking mechanism |
|
|
I'd be happy to take some measurements. I'll probably have some time this weekend. _________________ Cream Puff
'79 CA Stock FI Deluxe Campmobile
Earl Grey
'87 GoWesty 2.2 Westfalia
Marsha Mellow
'00 Eurovan VR6 Full Camper |
|
Back to top |
|
|
Sage79 Samba Member
Joined: September 13, 2008 Posts: 433 Location: Holland MI
|
Posted: Thu May 18, 2017 9:49 am Post subject: Re: Late Bay Westfalia bench locking mechanism |
|
|
Just measured from my '79 Westy:
t=3 mm (since we're German here)
W=20.1
L=30.4
H=34.6
D1=11.3 (large latching hole)
D2=6.4 (2 screw holes)
d1=5.3
d2=9.4
d3=5.3
d4=6.6
d5=19.7
R1 just guess _________________ Dirk
'79 Westy 2.0FI
'73 Sportsmobile 1.7dual Solex 003Auto - now my daughter's
'77 delux 2.0FI 090Auto - now my son's |
|
Back to top |
|
|
furgo Samba Member
Joined: September 06, 2016 Posts: 944 Location: Southern Germany
|
Posted: Thu May 18, 2017 10:47 am Post subject: Re: Late Bay Westfalia bench locking mechanism |
|
|
Awesome, thanks so much!
Coincidentally, I just got a piece of 2mm thick steel yesterday and I was going to have a go at guessing the dimensions and cutting/bending to size over the weekend.
Having the right sizes has just made the whole thing a lot easier!
_________________ '79 Westy, P22 interior, FI 2.0 l Federal, GE engine (hydraulic lifters)
Decode your M-Plate |
|
Back to top |
|
|
vwwestyman Samba Member
Joined: April 24, 2004 Posts: 5688 Location: Manhattan, Kansas, USA
|
Posted: Thu May 18, 2017 11:38 am Post subject: Re: Late Bay Westfalia bench locking mechanism |
|
|
As I imagine you've surmised, it doesn't lock. Just latch.
If the PO took it off, it might be because it wasn't lined up just right anymore and made latching/unlatching difficult. On mine, sometimes it doesn't line up perfect and I have to push the little button to make it latch.
Could also be that the screws pulled out and it was simply lost. Maybe it is still around down there in some tiny crevice under the seat! _________________ Dave Cook
President, Wild Westerner Club
1978 Champagne Edition Westy, repowered to '97 Jetta TDI
1973 Wild Westerner
My Thing |
|
Back to top |
|
|
furgo Samba Member
Joined: September 06, 2016 Posts: 944 Location: Southern Germany
|
Posted: Thu May 18, 2017 11:44 am Post subject: Re: Late Bay Westfalia bench locking mechanism |
|
|
vwwestyman wrote: |
As I imagine you've surmised, it doesn't lock. Just latch.
If the PO took it off, it might be because it wasn't lined up just right anymore and made latching/unlatching difficult. On mine, sometimes it doesn't line up perfect and I have to push the little button to make it latch. |
Ah, thanks. These will also be things I'll watch out for when I do the new installation.
vwwestyman wrote: |
Could also be that the screws pulled out and it was simply lost. Maybe it is still around down there in some tiny crevice under the seat! |
I'm sure. These things seem to appear right after you've either bought or fabricated a replacement. I recently found a small treasure chest from the PO with the original shift knob, NOS points and spark plugs, all of which I had just replaced. The engine compartment also seems to be a black hole for long lost bits and pieces, I've noticed. _________________ '79 Westy, P22 interior, FI 2.0 l Federal, GE engine (hydraulic lifters)
Decode your M-Plate |
|
Back to top |
|
|
DougB Samba Member
Joined: January 09, 2007 Posts: 1076 Location: Falls Church, Virginia, USA
|
Posted: Thu May 18, 2017 1:40 pm Post subject: Re: Late Bay Westfalia bench locking mechanism |
|
|
Thanks a ton for that bracket diagram pic! I was missing mine as well, but fabricated something that works OK a few months ago...will definitely make one according to this diagram, though.
Thanks again! _________________ '75 Campmobile (tin-top to SpaceRoof)
'73 Fastback
'52 BMW R67/2
'41 Zundapp KS600
'55 Puch SGS250
A very, very understanding wife |
|
Back to top |
|
|
AJPinVT Samba Member
Joined: September 08, 2016 Posts: 13 Location: Vermont
|
Posted: Thu May 18, 2017 4:49 pm Post subject: Re: Late Bay Westfalia bench locking mechanism |
|
|
Perfect...thanks a bunch! |
|
Back to top |
|
|
furgo Samba Member
Joined: September 06, 2016 Posts: 944 Location: Southern Germany
|
Posted: Sun Jun 25, 2017 1:24 am Post subject: Re: Late Bay Westfalia bench locking mechanism |
|
|
While finishing off bus projects, I managed to do the latch this weekend. Here's how it was put together and what it looks like. Hopefully it can be useful to others who found themselves with this missing piece too.
First, the (edited) microfiche that shows the complete bench mechanism, highlighted in blue. Our bracket is (A10) on the right, attached by two 4.8x19 mm screws (11) to the bottom of the rear seat.
Right from the start I must say I cheated: I found a metal plate with about the right dimensions with an already punched latch hole. I don't have a drill bit for that diameter, so that came in really handy.
I chose to use stainless steel, as I thought one less place to worry about rust. Thickness wasn't 3 mm as the original, but 2mm, wich is close and solid enough.
Here's the plate, before getting started. I used a hacksaw to do all the cuts, as for me it's quicker to cut 2 mm steel by hand than with a dremel or similar.
The first cut:
The bracket cut to width, latch end radius marked. Notice I did not cut to length yet, for two reasons:
• Being opportunistic and preempting a possible failure, I left the other side with the punched hole there, so that I can reuse it in case the first try goes belly up
• I want to have a long lever for bending the bracket to 90° later
Rough cutting the latch end radius:
After some filing it looks much better:
Removing scratches, vise marks and generally flattening at the diamond stones.
Ready to bend it. Not being a metal worker, this was the part I was most worried about. I didn't know how easy it would be to bend, whether it would work out, or if the bend radius would be small enough for producing a usable bracket.
And it worked! I started up pulling towards me with a piece of wood behind the bracket, mostly pressing around the elbow area of the metal piece. I then finished it off and reduced the bend radius by hitting the elbow with my nylon hammer.
For not knowing if it would work at all, I was pretty happy with the result. It's not a fully square corner, and you can see the metal stress marks a bit, but the bend radius is small enough. The bracket is close enough to 90° for the tolerances involved.
In hinsight, I could have annealed the steel to make it softer just to do the bend. But cold bending worked just as well and it was quicker.
Rough cutting the radius for the screws end of the bracket:
Close enough to square:
The final bracket after having drilled the holes for the screw and some polishing. Note: if you attempt to drill through steel, do get a proper drill bit, or you'll be drilling a long time...
I did not manage to get to the hardware store before they closed, so the 4.8x19 mm screws and the final fitting will have to wait until next week. I'll report back with more pics then.
_________________ '79 Westy, P22 interior, FI 2.0 l Federal, GE engine (hydraulic lifters)
Decode your M-Plate |
|
Back to top |
|
|
LiveJay Samba Member
Joined: December 01, 2005 Posts: 130 Location: Nipomo, CA
|
Posted: Sun Jun 25, 2017 1:51 am Post subject: Re: Late Bay Westfalia bench locking mechanism |
|
|
Great finish! Nicely done. _________________ Jay
'73 Beetle
'73 Bus |
|
Back to top |
|
|
Mell22B Samba Member
Joined: June 29, 2017 Posts: 25 Location: Sunny San Diego
|
Posted: Thu Sep 28, 2017 9:07 pm Post subject: Re: Late Bay Westfalia bench locking mechanism |
|
|
that fabrication is impressive! i am guessing you never found an aftermarket locking mechanism that could do the job then? i need to fix mine myself as i have a carseat on there and want it locked down before i take my little guy anywhere in it again. i dont think i could do all that myself though! _________________ 1978 Type 2 Westfalia Kombi |
|
Back to top |
|
|
furgo Samba Member
Joined: September 06, 2016 Posts: 944 Location: Southern Germany
|
Posted: Thu Sep 28, 2017 10:24 pm Post subject: Re: Late Bay Westfalia bench locking mechanism |
|
|
I did find a quality aftermarket locking mechanism back then (see the original post for more info):
https://www.reimo.com/en/58060-sitzbankverriegelung
In fact, I even ordered it, but I returned it once I had realized I had only a missing piece I could fabricate myself to use my original Westfalia latch.
Note: the shop is in Germany, so I'm not sure if they ship to the US. However, I'm sure there are equivalent camping gear shops in the Americas that have similar hardware.
It all depends on which parts you're missing from your original latch. If you're missing multiple parts, I'd look at the Samba classifieds first to see if you find them, and if not, then look for a complete aftermarket latch/lock mechanism.
But if you're only missing the bracket as I did, by all means I encourage you to fabricate it. You can see it from the pictures: I only used common, simple hand tools probably everyone has: a metal saw, files, sandpaper of various grit sizes, a vice, a drill. And I don't have a mechanical background. The only tricky bits are drilling the big hole (where I cheated, since I don't own a drill bit of that diameter) and bending the plate (which could have been easier had I annealed it first, but I went the expeditive way).
I'm sure you can also do it. _________________ '79 Westy, P22 interior, FI 2.0 l Federal, GE engine (hydraulic lifters)
Decode your M-Plate |
|
Back to top |
|
|
Tcash Samba Member
Joined: July 20, 2011 Posts: 12844 Location: San Jose, California, USA
|
Posted: Thu Sep 28, 2017 11:27 pm Post subject: Re: Late Bay Westfalia bench locking mechanism |
|
|
Mell22B wrote: |
that fabrication is impressive! i am guessing you never found an aftermarket locking mechanism that could do the job then? i need to fix mine myself as i have a carseat on there and want it locked down before i take my little guy anywhere in it again. i dont think i could do all that myself though! |
One of the Salvage yards should have it.
VW Business Listing
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/shops/ |
|
Back to top |
|
|
Mell22B Samba Member
Joined: June 29, 2017 Posts: 25 Location: Sunny San Diego
|
Posted: Fri Sep 29, 2017 8:48 am Post subject: Re: Late Bay Westfalia bench locking mechanism |
|
|
furgo wrote: |
I'm sure you can also do it. |
Thanks for the confidence I am going to take a look this weekend! _________________ 1978 Type 2 Westfalia Kombi |
|
Back to top |
|
|
Mell22B Samba Member
Joined: June 29, 2017 Posts: 25 Location: Sunny San Diego
|
Posted: Sun Oct 08, 2017 3:32 pm Post subject: Re: Late Bay Westfalia bench locking mechanism |
|
|
can't believe it! i remembered i had a box of parts to go through so went looking for the top part of the latch and found it!! just need to drill it in now. yipee! _________________ 1978 Type 2 Westfalia Kombi |
|
Back to top |
|
|
Tcash Samba Member
Joined: July 20, 2011 Posts: 12844 Location: San Jose, California, USA
|
Posted: Sun Oct 08, 2017 5:01 pm Post subject: Re: Late Bay Westfalia bench locking mechanism |
|
|
That works. Free is always good.
Tcash |
|
Back to top |
|
|
|