Carbon throw out bearing V.S. newer and what to change?

[69vwcarl]

Hi guys. I recently added this 57 oval bug to my collection. Its been years since ive had a type 1 and have to say I am totally in love... I have a feeling my buses will be collecting dust while i go drive this bug.. It sat since 1990 in a indoor storage I got it home put on new German lines re-did all the brake components and put new tires on and 6 Volt battery.

The motor was out and i decided to replace the carbon throw out bearing that was in the transaxle with a used newer style spinning one i had on the shelf... after installing the 36HP motor i realized that clutch pedal free play was not there at all. Actually it was a total pain to even get the nut on the clutch cable...almost like the cable was too short and there was no play at the arm of the trans with the nut backed almost all the way off on the cable and pedal felt odd as well..... ok so ill drive it anyway lots to test and see what needs what.. Well to my surprise the bug actually felt amazing!!!!! only issue was chatter in first gear only when releasing the clutch.. everything else was fine... after my first longer test trip first gear begin to become hard to obtain and also reverse... I tightened up the cable and then after a longer drive i was getting slipping....put in a new boden tube.. no change.. so back out with the motor to find this....

it looks to me like the newer style TO bearing is thicker then the carbon one but i have never had a carbon bearing older split case trans bug so i don't have a clue..

So Everything is original as far as i know. But the newer TO bearing.... here's the question for the pros out there..
1: Is the static carbon style TO bearing still available and where from...?
2: Newer TO bearing is physically thicker.. do i need to switch clutch cable if i use this style?
3: Where did i mess up here lol Thanks!!!!
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[Mr. OGPaint]

I recently retro-graded my conventional throw out back to a carbon throw out.

-clutch cable adjustment is definitely different between the two types
-carbon bearing requires a special carbon type type of throw out clips. these clips are pictured in early parts manuals. Carbon style clips are completely different and cannot be Interchanged with later style clips
-carbon throw out bearings cannot be purchased new, but are rather easily found New Old Stock...sometimes with the needed clips also
-my carbon throw out bearing runs silent and chatter free
-carbon throw out bearings are especially good on cars that set a lot because they are impervious to rust and corrosion
-by the late 50s carbon bearings were still factory equipment, but factory manuals referred to ball bearing throw outs as "heavy duty" upgrade
-the throw out arm in your car will work fine
-original cable can be used with either bearing style


Where you screwed up with the previous swap was not slackening the clutch cable adjustment after the bearing swap. The conventional bearing type throw out is thicker and likely caused the bearing to run up against the pressure plate at all times....which will always cause an extremely premature failure as pictured. If it was mine I would purchase and reinstall a carbon bearing, because I really like them and the originality. Installing another conventional bearing is another option. Either way, you must make sure the clutch is properly adjusted when done.
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Patrick Hall

[D. Haviland]

I run the carbon type in my 57 and it works great. I've put 45,000 miles on the car with that bearing. I think I have a couple NOS ones kicking around. I'll take a look. Let me know if you want one.

[Snort]

That particular style of ball bearing that you used seems to give lots of people problems with failure. If you want to use a ball bearing unit these style are worth looking for but you might have to find a used one, clean it up and fresh grease etc. They do seemingly last forever with proper care.

Pics from the gallery.

On the back side you can carefully remove the dust shield to do your cleaning and greasing.

Probably a good idea to go with carbon though, more old school cool factor to match your car.

[69vwcarl]

[Mr. OGPaint]

[Eric&Barb]

You can also measure up, and adjust the clutch BEFORE installing the engine.

Take a straight edge (a level, or yard stick, or even a 2x4) and set it across the rear of the bell housing. Measure from the straight edge that is against the bell housing to the TO bearing (face that shoves against the pressure plate) on either side near where it mounts to the operating shaft.
Write that measurement down!

Take same straight edge and place against the pressure plate face where the TO bearing presses against when you press the clutch pedal. Then measure from the straight edge closest to the engine to the flange of the engine case where the transaxle bell housing seats against.
Write down this second measurement!

What you need is the first measurement to be 1/8" more than the second one.
This will put you within a turn or two of the clutch cable nut of where you need to be, and lots easier to do the majority of the adjustment now with engine out!!
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In Stereo, Where Available!

[69vwcarl]

[Kjell Roar]

An oval is a nice car, got mine for 26 years now

Still uses the carbon one, I think, have newer had the engine out om my car in these years. It behaves like the carbon one, first springs (its stored a few months during winter) I thought it was going to fail because of small sounds, but it still works. And the sounds is not noticable after some times use.

Tip:
It will handle better if you change this spring plate rubber bushings to new ones :

http://www.wolfsburgwest.com/cart/DetailsList.cfm?ID=111511245A
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I got a historic car, every scratch got a history...

My car, Aug. 4th, 1955 / an early 56: http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/album_page.php?pic_id=610438

[2067Bug]

I just went through the exact same scenario with my 57 split case. I bought a new pressure plate, clutch, and TO bearing. The clutch cable took a lot of adjusting to make it work. The next day the pressure plate fell apart and luckily there was little damage. I used the clips off the carbon TO with the new type TO. Will the newer style TO bearing work or should I be looking for a carbon TO bearing?

Thanks