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raygreenwood
Samba Member
Joined: November 24, 2008
Posts: 21513
Location: Oklahoma City
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 Posted: Thu Oct 12, 2017 8:49 am Post subject: Re: Lowering a 411/ 412 |
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| Davis412 wrote: |
| a bus tranny |
You are going to find that the bus tranny is difficult bordering impossible even with great fabricating skills.....without butchering the car to the point of making it unsafe.
Gear ratios aside...which suck for a type 4 car......the tailcone is in the wrong position. You will have to dimple or cut the body above the shift linkage area...and the zig-zag it will produe in the linkage rod is no small feat to get around.
The clutch is actually pretty easy fabrication. Leave it hydraulic and build a bracket to hold the slave to drive the cross shaft. I do not think I have yet seen anyone do a successful crossover to a type 2 transmission.
Actually a properly built and adjusted automatic....with a well tuned and upgraded 1.7L or a built 1.8....either injection or twin carbs .....no center mounted junk.....will drive the car better and faster than a bus transmission because the stroke and power output of those two engines suited for a high geared final drive and not a low geared bus final drive.
The options in the 004 four speed were 3.73:1 and 3.91:1 final drive. The Auto....which is a type 3 trans with a few differences....was like 3.67:1 early and I think 3.90:1 late.
Ray |
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my70vwbug
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Joined: November 06, 2015
Posts: 2
Location: Yakima, WA
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| Posted: Mon Apr 15, 2019 3:50 pm Post subject: Re: Lowering a 411/ 412 |
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I have two questions that i didn't see scanning through all info, which is AWESOME!
1. What spring and shocks to use on REAR 73 412?
2. Will Super beetle lowering struts bolt to the front lower bearing three bolt mounts on same vehicle? |
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raygreenwood
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Joined: November 24, 2008
Posts: 21513
Location: Oklahoma City
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| Posted: Mon Apr 15, 2019 8:19 pm Post subject: Re: Lowering a 411/ 412 |
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| my70vwbug wrote: |
I have two questions that i didn't see scanning through all info, which is AWESOME!
1. What spring and shocks to use on REAR 73 412?
2. Will Super beetle lowering struts bolt to the front lower bearing three bolt mounts on same vehicle? |
The stock springs from the 411/412 are fairly unique in size and progressiveness. Use the stock springs. Unless they have been abused in some manner....its rare to find them being more than about 10% off of stock.
If you wanted to lower the rear slightly.....bear in mind that the shock itself is the lower and upper limit stop. So........if you want to see how much the combined shock and spring lift the rear....unbolt the lower shock bolt. It will drop about 1/2". You can weld on a tube around the tube in the trailing wishbone....to drill a a hole through and mount the lower eye...about an maxumum of 1.5"lower. This is actually a LOT. Lowering the rear suspension...which is already low.....this small amount drops the chassis quite a bit.
No the super beetle parts will not fit, are too weak and do not have anywhere near the progression rate required to not break things.
Look in my front strut rebuild thread. It tells exactly how to lower...correctly....the front end bg a maximum of about the same amount.
Thats actually A LOT. The visual appearance of lowering front and back even 0.9" to 1.0"....not to mention handling.....is huge. You want lower....get rid of the stock 75 series tires and put it on 55 series. Do not go lower profile....ss it WILL damage the ball joints. Because of how low it is already......unless you do heavier fabricating like Bill K did.....I would not lower any further than 1.0" in the front to make it level and get rid of the nose high attitude.
This uses the Audi strut cartridge mod.....and the stock spring. Then go from the stock 165/75-15 tire in 4.5" rims.....to 205 55...and that lowers another 1/2.
Ray |
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my70vwbug
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Joined: November 06, 2015
Posts: 2
Location: Yakima, WA
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| Posted: Mon Apr 15, 2019 10:55 pm Post subject: Re: Lowering a 411/ 412 |
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| Thank you Ray. I read on a forum once, not sure which one, that the super beetle spring adjustable strut (minus cartridge)will bolt to the 412 ball joint. But thank you for setting me straight on that. I am going for in the weeds low. I tried to see if Bill K had any pics of fabricating. But have not seen them. Would love to. Thank you for the complete write up of front suspension swap. Been reading that. |
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raygreenwood
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Joined: November 24, 2008
Posts: 21513
Location: Oklahoma City
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| Posted: Tue Apr 16, 2019 7:49 am Post subject: Re: Lowering a 411/ 412 |
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| my70vwbug wrote: |
| Thank you Ray. I read on a forum once, not sure which one, that the super beetle spring adjustable strut (minus cartridge)will bolt to the 412 ball joint. But thank you for setting me straight on that. I am going for in the weeds low. I tried to see if Bill K had any pics of fabricating. But have not seen them. Would love to. Thank you for the complete write up of front suspension swap. Been reading that. |
You will not be able to get it into the weeds low without making it undriveable.....without extreme fabrication. Not sure why you would want it that low...as handling kn type 4 cars does not improve....it gets worse.. past about 2" lowering with a combination of items (struts, tires, wheels).
Understand a few things about how this suspension is put together.
First...to get it really low....you either have to change the upper mount point for the struts...which cannot be done unless you cut holes in the hood...its very close. And simce this is a crash cell car.....cutting in that area is not advised.
Or......and other people have tried this....and failed.....because they did not understand the geometry of struts.....you can cut the spring......which will do one of two things depending on how much you cut off.
1. Too short....and as you go over bumps and the rebound extends.....the spring unseats. Ugly noise....eventual destruction of the top spring plate and bushing. Been there eons ago.
2. Only small amount of spring removed like 1/2 to 3/4 coil.....no real effect on stance.....but definite issue with load control.
As you start removing total load control.....either by shortening the ride comfort section or the load control section of the coil.....the system places more pressure on the strut cartridge to dampen velocity the spring can no longer control.
It will do this....but wears out the cartridges faster.....but at peak load before tje cartridge caj arrest the compression movement......it transfers load to parts in between.
Usually this is the tire sidewall FIRST.....the ball joint spring 2nd and the strut bearing 3rd.
However....if you have already gone from a 70 or 75 series tire to a 50 or 55 series tire......an easy 40-50% of that sidewall flex is gone.
The load transfers through the ball joint spring first....and only really makes it to the strut bearing if and when you bottom out.
This beats the living crap out of the ball joints. It makes for short life. They have not been manufactured since about 1986....are hard to find ....expensive....snd nothing else is even close.
The method Bill K used....was the Audi strud mod for a cartridge with good valving.....cutting the strut tube down....but also going with a totally different set of springs from either a Volvo K70 or a BMW. That would be the only way to go for lowering in the 2"+ range......but can still have ball joint snd radius arm issues.
Other items you will run into if you try slamming a type 4 car.....is....even though you do have what "appears" to be considerable room in the control arm cut outs in the fender wells.....it will get close.
And....the rear bushing socket for the diagonal arm (called the radius arm) does not have that much rotation. It beats up the centering rings snd inner donut bushings for those points.
You will need to fabricate the camber and castor adjustment mods on the subframe.
Other issues are that slamming a type 4....will put the tire up higher in the fender well. Very narrow....and this is not a beetle where the body is seperate from the back bone/pan.....where you fan just dish or cut the tub. The body IS the chassis. Its a unibody.
Unless.....you go to very low profile tires....which makes the loading and damage of the ball joints and radius arm bushings worse.
Yes...if you can fabricate you can lower/slam one of these cars. Ride and handling will be sh*t comparatively.....and certain parts that are not easy to get may have a short life.....but if you have lots of spares and are willing to accept these things.....go for it!
Ray |
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greggearhead
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Joined: June 20, 2004
Posts: 563
Location: Colorado Springs, CO
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| Posted: Sun Dec 08, 2019 7:56 am Post subject: Re: Lowering a 411/ 412 |
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| my70vwbug wrote: |
| Thank you Ray. I read on a forum once, not sure which one, that the super beetle spring adjustable strut (minus cartridge)will bolt to the 412 ball joint. But thank you for setting me straight on that. I am going for in the weeds low. I tried to see if Bill K had any pics of fabricating. But have not seen them. Would love to. Thank you for the complete write up of front suspension swap. Been reading that. |
I own Bill's old car, and have many of the build photos. He did an almost unbelievable amount of work on all of the systems of the car. I'll try to post some up here shortly.
_________________
1972 Porsche 911E
1973 VW 412
1984 VW Doka
1991 Vanagon Syncro Westy
Period Lights, VW & Porsche wheels and Recaro/Scheel Seats for sale
https://www.facebook.com/greggearhead
http://greggearhead.com/soco-swap---september-vw-swap-meet.html |
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hulken
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Joined: January 29, 2009
Posts: 95
Location: Norway
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| Posted: Sun Dec 08, 2019 8:01 am Post subject: Re: Lowering a 411/ 412 |
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| greggearhead wrote: |
| I own Bill's old car, and have many of the build photos. He did an almost unbelievable amount of work on all of the systems of the car. I'll try to post some up here shortly. |
Excellent, all pictures of how Bill did it is gone over at shoptalkforums so it would be nice to see them again! |
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hrdwdpro
Samba Member
Joined: April 19, 2012
Posts: 26
Location: Staunton, VA
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| Posted: Sat Feb 08, 2020 3:22 pm Post subject: Re: Lowering a 411/ 412 |
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Why not use the seal/centering ring from the original strut setup when doing the 4000 insert?
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raygreenwood
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Joined: November 24, 2008
Posts: 21513
Location: Oklahoma City
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| Posted: Sat Feb 08, 2020 4:44 pm Post subject: Re: Lowering a 411/ 412 |
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| hrdwdpro wrote: |
Why not use the seal/centering ring from the original strut setup when doing the 4000 insert?
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You probably could but its very thick...like about an 1.5". This means that you will need to carefully reset the bottom spacer length to get the right height/length.
It also means you have to still have the original strut guts. I got rid of mine decades ago....and went to after market strut inserts...before they quit making those.
The next problem when you are on aftermarket strut inserts from way back when....usually either Boge, KYB or Monroe...is that all three have a totally different centering ring.
Really as long as its solid...you could drill and put rivets through the centering rings they come with...or even wrap the top with a ring of hard sheet plastic like I have made the lower centering rings. It just neds to be dense and keep the strut centered. Ray |
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hrdwdpro
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Joined: April 19, 2012
Posts: 26
Location: Staunton, VA
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| Posted: Tue Feb 11, 2020 9:34 pm Post subject: Re: Lowering a 411/ 412 |
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Ok Ray, more questions about the strut project I am doing. I understand fully what the goal is with the audi strut cartridge and the stub adapter. I have the cartridges and one of my struts apart.
Let's just spitball a bit so I can understand the drawbacks in another path.
If I say that with the lower spring mount in it's original location I am going to build the strut to have a maximum preload of 1" on the original spring when assembled. As is suggested in the dropbox file.
I then cut the original strut tube at the appropriate height and plate it closed. I the reduce tubing size so that the I.d. accommodates the o.d. of the cartridge. I make up a cap for the tube and plan to not use a stub adapter. Instead I make my new tube long enough so that my cartridge is raised up to achieve the 1" preload on the stock spring.
I finish this off with the bump stop, spacer, and clearance modification of the strut mount to achieve my refurbished and lowered strut.
Please explain what the drawbacks would be in this scenario? |
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raygreenwood
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Joined: November 24, 2008
Posts: 21513
Location: Oklahoma City
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| Posted: Wed Feb 12, 2020 8:22 am Post subject: Re: Lowering a 411/ 412 |
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| hrdwdpro wrote: |
Ok Ray, more questions about the strut project I am doing. I understand fully what the goal is with the audi strut cartridge and the stub adapter. I have the cartridges and one of my struts apart.
Let's just spitball a bit so I can understand the drawbacks in another path.
If I say that with the lower spring mount in it's original location I am going to build the strut to have a maximum preload of 1" on the original spring when assembled. As is suggested in the dropbox file.
I then cut the original strut tube at the appropriate height and plate it closed. I the reduce tubing size so that the I.d. accommodates the o.d. of the cartridge. I make up a cap for the tube and plan to not use a stub adapter. Instead I make my new tube long enough so that my cartridge is raised up to achieve the 1" preload on the stock spring.
I finish this off with the bump stop, spacer, and clearance modification of the strut mount to achieve my refurbished and lowered strut.
Please explain what the drawbacks would be in this scenario? |
If you can do that level of fab you can make it work. Give me until the afternoon today....to make some quick sketches to post here so we can bounce back and forth.
But from your description......so instead of having the strut sitting on the spacer.....you drop the strut to the bottom of the strut tube. This drops the strut height so that the shorter audi strut rod needs even more length to reach the top plate.....to keep the stock spring compression rate no more than 1" less than stock.
But.....thats doable.....if you detach the lower spring perch and re-weld it lower. This WILL work....but creates some issues.
The problems this will create.....may not be insurrmountable but you do need to look at them.
1. This is a total drop of probably 4-5"?
2 this large of a drop will greatly change/increase the static castor angle. If you do the slotting of the sub-frame mod to add castor adjustment.....it should be fixable.
3. Keep a careful eye on the control arm angles and their possible impact on the chassis at maximum compression.
4. The front end is pretty low already on maximum strut compression. Keep an eye on that
The level of fab work to the strut tube you are contemplating is what I have always suggested would have to be done....for wholesale lowering.....and is along the lines of what BillK did years back. I just never had the ability and tools and never wanted my car that low.
And doing shat you are suggesting.....you should not have to modify the top of the strut tube or fab a new cap. Just rethread it. I suggest you do not.
The centering ring is easy to fab so many ways. It is just what it says....a simple ring to keep it centered. It has virtually no load as long as its dense material.
In fact.....the Boge strut cartridges came from the factory with Nylon centering rings and they worked perfectly.
The last issue.....is that you WILL have to lower the rear. In a 411/412...you cannot safely drive it with that level of front to rear "rake".
Having driven these cars extensively.....in a very spirited manner.....even with all of the mods....which make a REAL 200% improvement......the 411/412 two door coupe has a fair portion of "911 syndrome". On a fast downhill sweeper.....the rear wants to pass the front without a little skilled "power-on" driving at high rpm in 3rd. Having a deep forward rake will multiply this.
A good method to add "some" lowering in the rear.....is to weld on a tube extension to the bottom of the tube that is welded into the rear trailing wishbone. This is where the lower shock cross bolt is mounted. So in effect.....you are lowering the rear mounting hole for the rear shock so it drops the car down. Yes....this will add compression to the coil spring. I "think" it can handle an inch or so. Or you could use the rear springs that BillK usex from a different car that he reported worked well.
Either way in the rear....you cannot just use a lower spring. The shock itself is the stroke limiter at full compression. Just lowering the spring but not the lower mounting point insures that the shock bottoms out too early and it will bend the rod. Been there....done that.
Also.....if you are doing this much to the front end....you really need to do the dual sway bar mod for the rear. Thats a huge improvement. Ray |
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hrdwdpro
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Joined: April 19, 2012
Posts: 26
Location: Staunton, VA
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| Posted: Wed Feb 12, 2020 10:09 am Post subject: Re: Lowering a 411/ 412 |
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Ray,
I am not saying the cartridge would be dropped all the way to the bottom of the tube but Instead the cartridge will be located higher up so that I achieve one inch of spring preload with the lower spring perch in the same location as factory.
I do not want to be crazy low. I dont want to tear up the factory rear apron with the dimple die holes on steep driveways. Its just too cool of a feature and my car doesnt have it so level or just a little better is fine. I hate rake and do not want push in my steering so level is the goal. I also have two sway bars so that mod is on the list.
I will draw up a model in solidworks today and post pics to better demonstrate what I'm going to do. I need to sit and draw it up regardless so this will be good motivation to get it done.
Are the bmw 318 springs a perfect fit in the factory spring seat.
I ask because I can get a pair of new spring seats and rubber insulators for the bmw for cheap. This may be a good option for replacing the factory spring seat with the bmw parts and matching rubber insulators. I imagine I could cut an appropriate size hole in the middle slide it down over the resized tube and weld it on. At that point it may be better to just make a new bottom plate for the spindle and an entirely new tube. I wouldn't have to cut the factory part at all and I could make it out of stainless. Which makes me happy. |
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hulken
Samba Member
Joined: January 29, 2009
Posts: 95
Location: Norway
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| Posted: Wed Feb 12, 2020 10:11 am Post subject: Re: Lowering a 411/ 412 |
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| BMW springs fits good! I will Try to take a picture later today.... |
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raygreenwood
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Joined: November 24, 2008
Posts: 21513
Location: Oklahoma City
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| Posted: Wed Feb 12, 2020 1:05 pm Post subject: Re: Lowering a 411/ 412 |
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| hrdwdpro wrote: |
Ray,
I am not saying the cartridge would be dropped all the way to the bottom of the tube but Instead the cartridge will be located higher up so that I achieve one inch of spring preload with the lower spring perch in the same location as factory.
I do not want to be crazy low. I dont want to tear up the factory rear apron with the dimple die holes on steep driveways. Its just too cool of a feature and my car doesnt have it so level or just a little better is fine. I hate rake and do not want push in my steering so level is the goal. I also have two sway bars so that mod is on the list.
I will draw up a model in solidworks today and post pics to better demonstrate what I'm going to do. I need to sit and draw it up regardless so this will be good motivation to get it done.
Are the bmw 318 springs a perfect fit in the factory spring seat.
I ask because I can get a pair of new spring seats and rubber insulators for the bmw for cheap. This may be a good option for replacing the factory spring seat with the bmw parts and matching rubber insulators. I imagine I could cut an appropriate size hole in the middle slide it down over the resized tube and weld it on. At that point it may be better to just make a new bottom plate for the spindle and an entirely new tube. I wouldn't have to cut the factory part at all and I could make it out of stainless. Which makes me happy. |
Ah!.....got it!.....
So....you really are EXTENDING the strut tube so that you can get rid of the adapter....right?
However.....a couple of things.
1. If you have a 411 or early 412 symmetrical strut mount using the long upper pin strut rod and stock bump stop....the top of the audi strut will not fit. Too short.
2. In that case you can go to the late assymetrical strut mount and shuffle the spacers like in my how to article and use a bunp stop mounted to the top plate with something as simple as a screw or even adhesive ....more similar to the floatibg bump stops of modern struts.
I would suggest....to extend your strut body....either find a spare pair of 411/412 strut bodiea or possibly a pair from super beetles......and just cut off the tops. Thread the lower end to match the thread on your 412 strut body.....and then have a joiner/spacer tube threaded to connect them together. In this way you can adjust the height. Ray |
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hrdwdpro
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Joined: April 19, 2012
Posts: 26
Location: Staunton, VA
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| Posted: Wed Feb 12, 2020 1:45 pm Post subject: Re: Lowering a 411/ 412 |
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Ray,
Interesting though because I was thinking today that as long as I am extending the tube I could make the upper and lower spring seats adjustable in height as a whole.
I have two late 412 cars both with asymmetrical mounts. I have enough spares to do whatever I want but the fresh made tube out of stainless with a somewhat coilover type height adjustment really sounds nice at the moment. |
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raygreenwood
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Joined: November 24, 2008
Posts: 21513
Location: Oklahoma City
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| Posted: Wed Feb 12, 2020 2:28 pm Post subject: Re: Lowering a 411/ 412 |
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| hrdwdpro wrote: |
Ray,
Interesting though because I was thinking today that as long as I am extending the tube I could make the upper and lower spring seats adjustable in height as a whole.
I have two late 412 cars both with asymmetrical mounts. I have enough spares to do whatever I want but the fresh made tube out of stainless with a somewhat coilover type height adjustment really sounds nice at the moment. |
 ...I went through all of these permutations years ago! Yes...originally a fully adjustable upper and lower perch, coil over strut is what I originally thought would be ideal.
I was looking at Bilstein, Fox etc....but too many issues with lower mounts, length etc....especially because I only needed about an inch or so of lowering along with lower profile tires.
The problem with looking at the available, adjustable off-road struts was not so much the mounting issues...but I could not be sure that I could get the spring rates and valving I needed (the front end is light and I'm not going over jumps)....even with adjustability of valving. Plus to get a streetable rid I was going to need two sets of springs...short rid control with a mid-perch and lower load control springs. It gets complex fast....and the killer was the cost.
I would not use stainless. First....its not stiff enough unless you make it THICK and second...you are going to have to fabricate a stainless lower solid mount to match what fits the steering knuckle and it needs to be fairly precise.
Ray |
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hrdwdpro
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Joined: April 19, 2012
Posts: 26
Location: Staunton, VA
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| Posted: Wed Feb 12, 2020 11:21 pm Post subject: Re: Lowering a 411/ 412 |
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I'm sticking with the stock spring and 4000 cartridge because its been done and offers good performance. At the moment I am seriously looking at making a new lower mount and vertical tube. I do like the idea of a length adjustable tube so that the static compression of the spring remains unchanged while the height is adjustable.
I didn't have a chance to draw anything up today because one of the pistons in my caliper locked up and inspent the evening turning my rotors, disassembling and cleaning my calipers, and bleeding brakes.
Going into tomorrow with a spongy pedal but I'm over the stock master cylinder and fed up enough to add aftermarket master to my current list of 412 chores. |
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raygreenwood
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Joined: November 24, 2008
Posts: 21513
Location: Oklahoma City
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| Posted: Thu Feb 13, 2020 2:05 pm Post subject: Re: Lowering a 411/ 412 |
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| hrdwdpro wrote: |
| I'm sticking with the stock spring and 4000 cartridge because its been done and offers good performance. At the moment I am seriously looking at making a new lower mount and vertical tube. I do like the idea of a length adjustable tube so that the static compression of the spring remains unchanged while the height is adjustable. |
That sounds good! Also...its really hard to convey just how much of an improvement the 4000 strut is,. Its a HUGE improvement. Its not JUST that it gets rid of the factory stock valving imbalance between compression and rebound.
That was a handling problem with the stock oil bath struts from day one....as rough pavement at speed can jack the front end upward because rebound is stronger than compression and it overloads the piston top chamber with oil. It was not horribly noticeable on the stock cars in factory form....if you had a little weight in the trunk.....but as they got a little wear it would usually eventually blow the top rod seal or the o-ring between top valve body and the strut tube. Slight oil loss then made it worse.
Aftermarket strut cartridges...Monroe, KYB, Boge, Sachs....were all good....but they amazingly...had the EXACT valving as stock so had the same handling issues.
The 4000 strut has excellent valving ratio between compression and rebound. To addto that....literally...they have correct valving...with about 2X the stiffness....but since they are low pressure gas/oil...they are smooth not harsh.
| Quote: |
I didn't have a chance to draw anything up today because one of the pistons in my caliper locked up and inspent the evening turning my rotors, disassembling and cleaning my calipers, and bleeding brakes. |
Did you put a rebuild kit into your calipers and change all the seals? PMB has great kits that have the bridge seals as well and Rockauto kits have everything but the bridge seals and for some time under the centric brand have been re-packaged FAG kits made in Germany.
https://www.rockauto.com/en/catalog/volkswagen,197...r+kit,1720
| Quote: |
| Going into tomorrow with a spongy pedal but I'm over the stock master cylinder and fed up enough to add aftermarket master to my current list of 412 chores. |
Adding an "aftermarket" master cylinder is a big can of worms. There will be the mounting and actuating issues. Yes...you could mount in the trunk and fab up the push rod and linkage.
The biggest issue is finding a master cylinder that has the right bias. Actually...really...more importantly what you will be doing with an aftermarket master cylinder ....is also adding an aftermarket front to rear brake bias adjusting valve. Many models at places like summit racing.
The problem with the 411/412....is that its bias is not anywhere near as simple as a front engined water cooled car. You can have your bias off a bit in a car with most of its mass in the front end....and have only a few problems in the most violent braking situations. However...the 411/412 already has a slight bit of the "911 syndrome"....which is precisely why the factory put a rear brake pressure compensation valve...a pretty good one....on the 411/412 two and four door saloons. I have no idea why its not on the wagons...it needs it just as badly.
Working with other master cylinders on a modified pedal bracket back in about 2000-2002....I damn near killed myself with a super beetle cylinder slaved into my 412. The bias is incorrect and I nearly rolled the car at 40 mph.
All of that said...the stock master cylinder works great...if you can PROPERLY rebuild it. I am just about to pull the trigger on nickel plating about 7-10 of them in the bore to bring them back to best factory specs of right about .002" bore to piston tolerance, then bead blast the outside and I finally decided they will be painted with master series aluminum/silver permanent urethane rust block....then the pistons cleaned and rebuilt with new seals from Raybestos type 3 kits.
Basically...with an electroless nickel plated bore....they will essentially last forever. The bores will be better than factory. You may have to put new seals in every 7-10 years...but the pistons NEVER wear out and electroless nickel does not rust...and is rockwell 70 in hardness....so the bores will never wear out.
If you want one or two...I will be selling off the spares at cost. Probably in the $65-75 range. I'm really just in it to build one and a spare for myself......but the electroless nickel setup chemistry alone is n the $350 range...add in about $5 for the paint....and about $25 for the seals...some grit and chemicals....and divide that by 7-10 and you can see what they will cost
Ray |
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hrdwdpro
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Joined: April 19, 2012
Posts: 26
Location: Staunton, VA
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| Posted: Thu Feb 13, 2020 6:30 pm Post subject: Re: Lowering a 411/ 412 |
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I was headed in mid stride and totally unprepared for the brake situation. I heard a slight scraping sound. Sent my wife to get new pads. Pulled the rotors and turned them. Noticed the inside pad had just started to hit metal and the outer pad was meaty. I decided to pull the pistons and not try pushing them in.
I have one caliper with cast pistons, that was the one with a locked piston. And I have one with machines pistons that look great. Actually all for pistons look great but I chipped a bit of lower dust boot flange on the stuck piston trying to get it out.
I didn't have any parts to do the job. It was rust outside of the seal that was causing the piston to stick. I put a router base on a dremel and set it to the depth of the seal edge. I sanded and then polished the rust off and reassembled and there are no leaks.
I have been running this master that I bought a year or so ago. It is an nos unit that i put. We seals in. It has never sealed properly since I rebuilt it and I have just settled for a one pump pedal ever since. It is the rear circuit that leaks I know for sure. And yes I would absolutely be down for a nice master that wont fail.
More to come on my strut build soon. Vale times to.orrow and wife's birthday sunday. Theast of my holiday season. The rest of the year is mi e free and clear. |
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raygreenwood
Samba Member
Joined: November 24, 2008
Posts: 21513
Location: Oklahoma City
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| Posted: Thu Feb 13, 2020 9:26 pm Post subject: Re: Lowering a 411/ 412 |
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| hrdwdpro wrote: |
I was headed in mid stride and totally unprepared for the brake situation. I heard a slight scraping sound. Sent my wife to get new pads. Pulled the rotors and turned them. Noticed the inside pad had just started to hit metal and the outer pad was meaty. I decided to pull the pistons and not try pushing them in.
I have one caliper with cast pistons, that was the one with a locked piston. And I have one with machines pistons that look great. Actually all for pistons look great but I chipped a bit of lower dust boot flange on the stuck piston trying to get it out.
I didn't have any parts to do the job. It was rust outside of the seal that was causing the piston to stick. I put a router base on a dremel and set it to the depth of the seal edge. I sanded and then polished the rust off and reassembled and there are no leaks.
I have been running this master that I bought a year or so ago. It is an nos unit that i put. We seals in. It has never sealed properly since I rebuilt it and I have just settled for a one pump pedal ever since. It is the rear circuit that leaks I know for sure. And yes I would absolutely be down for a nice master that wont fail.
More to come on my strut build soon. Vale times to.orrow and wife's birthday sunday. Theast of my holiday season. The rest of the year is mi e free and clear. |
By the way...what model is your car?...2 door, 4 door or wagon...and what year? it helps because there are a lot of little differences.
Ray |
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