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Silencing your Webasto / Espar Heater
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davevickery
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 21, 2016 9:05 am    Post subject: Silencing your Webasto / Espar Heater Reply with quote

You can make a DIY duct silencer easily. All the ones for sale are pretty simple pipe with foam inside.
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


They sell some for Radon fan noise and others for inline greenhouse fans in various diameters. The quietest ones seem to have a larger center air chamber and corrugated open cell foam inside.

I think a 4" or 5" inch center section with a 3" inlet and outlet end would work good with the intake and output of the heater. I made a mini version for the combusition intake using 2" PVC. It makes an amazing difference in noise and cost only about $2.

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Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


I don't have space to mount one of these on the cool air side of the heater. Bummer because they work great. On the hot air side I may used galvanized ducting instead of plastic. The foam seems to handle the heat well but I think the hard plastic would melt.

If you plan out your install so you have space at each end for some baffling, think you can make these heaters pretty quiet. Even a removable version over the hot air outlet that you use while sleeping should help a lot. Knowing now how they make the professional ones, it is easy to come up with ideas.
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raoul mitgong
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 21, 2016 12:17 pm    Post subject: Re: Silencing your Webasto / Espar Heater Reply with quote

There are some fire-retardant and extreme-temp sound deadening foam in in the McMaster Carr catalog that might be a good idea vs. any standard open cell foam. These links usually don't work from McMaster but I'll try. If not a direct link, mcmaster.com and search "foam". Very easy to navigate website.

https://www.mcmaster.com/#standard-foam-acoustical-insulation/=1550x7c

-d
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owokie
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 21, 2016 7:30 pm    Post subject: Re: Silencing your Webasto / Espar Heater Reply with quote

Thanks for the idea! I'd love to compare our installs/noise as I have absolutely zero issue with the actual heat intake/output but do take issue with the tick-tick-tick of the fuel pump along with the woof-woofing the exhaust makes, particularly when winding up, even with the muffler. Perhaps your longer exhaust run has helped. I'm gonna need you to drive over here asap. Very Happy
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davevickery
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 21, 2016 8:22 pm    Post subject: Re: Silencing your Webasto / Espar Heater Reply with quote

raoul mitgong wrote:
There are some fire-retardant and extreme-temp sound deadening foam in in the McMaster Carr catalog
https://www.mcmaster.com/#standard-foam-acoustical-insulation/=1550x7c
-d

Thanks, it looks like most acoustic foam is fire rated because it is intended to cover the walls of a room. I may try some of that. I saw a post from a guy with a Sprinter and D4 who made a duct section of out of Rock Wool, which I'd never heard of before.

owokie wrote:
Thanks for the idea! I'd love to compare our installs/noise as I have absolutely zero issue with the actual heat intake/output but do take issue with the tick-tick-tick of the fuel pump along with the woof-woofing the exhaust makes, particularly when winding up, even with the muffler. Perhaps your longer exhaust run has helped. I'm gonna need you to drive over here asap. Very Happy

I wonder about that too if some are just noisier. When I moved my exhaust to reach the back of the van I had to add a couple more feet of exhaust hose and it does seem quieter. I have a 3 foot section, then muffler, then another couple feet of hose.

I was surprised how much the intake muffler helped. It seems to work as well as the exhaust muffler. Now that I know they work, I wouldn't hesitate to buy a real one for $20, but my homemade one works good enough to leave it.

I think the trick to the fuel pump is to not have it hard mounted to a metal surface. The mount they give you isn't that great. I reworked the rubber mount on my very first gas heater too using rubber hose over it. I can still hear it tick sometimes but I don't think so much from inside with the door closed. I'll probably do a camping trip in December and get a chance to test it more.
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davevickery
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 21, 2016 8:35 pm    Post subject: Re: Silencing your Webasto / Espar Heater Reply with quote

I didn't want to post this sound clip because it sounds way louder than it does in person. But it gives a decent comparison between muffled and unmuffled with my home made PVC and foam piece.


Link
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raoul mitgong
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 21, 2016 8:38 pm    Post subject: Re: Silencing your Webasto / Espar Heater Reply with quote

Dave,
I thought I was done with my install... Did you really have to add more crap to my to do list? Thanks,
-d
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snwbrdr435
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 22, 2016 6:45 am    Post subject: Re: Silencing your Webasto / Espar Heater Reply with quote

When I first installed my espar the fuel pump was ungodly loud, so loud that it sounded like someone was underneath knocking on the van. I had some extra strips of rubber from some truck mudlflaps. I wrapped the fuel pump in that and then reinstalled it with an extra piece of rubber in between the frame rail and pump. You can't even hear it any more.

I don't have a muffler but you cant really hear the jet sound of the exhaust inside the van. Outside is another story all together though.
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hogan029
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 22, 2016 7:49 am    Post subject: Re: Silencing your Webasto / Espar Heater Reply with quote

Has anyone thought of some kind of enclosure or chamber for the fuel pump to sit in to silence it?
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snwbrdr435
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 13, 2017 4:46 am    Post subject: Re: Silencing your Webasto / Espar Heater Reply with quote

hogan029 wrote:
Has anyone thought of some kind of enclosure or chamber for the fuel pump to sit in to silence it?


Dead thread bump, but I wrapped my pump in a piece of rubber from some spare truck mudflaps. Super quiet now
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dhaavers
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 13, 2017 12:03 pm    Post subject: Re: Silencing your Webasto / Espar Heater Reply with quote

That's what you just said...(back in 2016)...

Wink

- Dave

PS: Great idea! Cool
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davevickery
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 13, 2017 12:59 pm    Post subject: Re: Silencing your Webasto / Espar Heater Reply with quote

Well I guess it is that time of year to talk about heaters.

I have my fuel pump surrounded in a short piece of coolant hose. There is some mention of heat given off by the pump. I hope I didn't break another install rule with that but so far it doesn't seem to be causing any issues.
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Multiman mv
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 15, 2017 3:38 am    Post subject: Re: Silencing your Webasto / Espar Heater Reply with quote

You are probably already aware of this unit. Just in case you aren't, they sell this muffler for the inlet of a espar (they also sell a muffler for the exhaust end.) the muffler makes a significant difference in noise level.

With that said, my espar is only loud for the initial startup phase, after about 3-4 minutes it runs extremely quietly but still pumps the heat.

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davevickery
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 15, 2017 7:18 am    Post subject: Re: Silencing your Webasto / Espar Heater Reply with quote

Multiman mv wrote:
You are probably already aware of this unit.


I've never seen an intake muffler like that? The steel ones I've seen are all for the exhaust and the intake ones are plastic.

I made my own intake muffler, it works great, but I could see swapping it for an OE unit. I have done a lot to quiet my heater. I sometimes cannot tell if it is running and put my hand over the exhaust to see if it hot. But when mine starts up or running on high, you can definitely hear it.
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erste
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 15, 2017 8:57 am    Post subject: Re: Silencing your Webasto / Espar Heater Reply with quote

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I'm using this webasto intake silencer with the espar d2:
http://www.heatso.com/webasto-combustion-air-intake-silencer/

I took it off with the heater running and was really surprised at how much difference it makes.
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 15, 2017 10:58 am    Post subject: Re: Silencing your Webasto / Espar Heater Reply with quote

erste wrote:
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


I'm using this webasto intake silencer with the espar d2:
http://www.heatso.com/webasto-combustion-air-intake-silencer/

I took it off with the heater running and was really surprised at how much difference it makes.


For even more silence I recommend rubber mounts for the pipe and muffler.
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Multiman mv
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 15, 2017 12:29 pm    Post subject: Re: Silencing your Webasto / Espar Heater Reply with quote

davevickery wrote:
Multiman mv wrote:
You are probably already aware of this unit.


I've never seen an intake muffler like that? The steel ones I've seen are all for the exhaust and the intake ones are plastic.

I made my own intake muffler, it works great, but I could see swapping it for an OE unit. I have done a lot to quiet my heater. I sometimes cannot tell if it is running and put my hand over the exhaust to see if it hot. But when mine starts up or running on high, you can definitely hear it.


Sorry my bad. This is the exhaust muffler, and yes the intake is plastic. I couldn't upload the photo of the intake one for some reason.
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TSellers2
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 12, 2018 10:15 pm    Post subject: Re: Silencing your Webasto / Espar Heater Reply with quote

Almost a year to the day since the last post, and time to revisit the heaters theme. I've been struggling with an install for a Chinese Espar clone for the last 10 months in my Delica van. I have learnt a lot along the way.* I really like the idea of replacing the generic air intake silencer with something like this PVC idea, using perhaps carbon felt instead of foam. It's nice that a Sched 40 1/2" PVC elbow is a snug fit over the air intake of these heaters, making this a great idea.

Another item that may have some use, I grabbed some of the 2' sections of flexible PCV pipe when it was on sale in Home Depot last week. As it is mainly used for irrigation now is the time to get it cheap. This will allow you to easily route your air intake lines to a convenient location as far away as possible from the exhaust.

* If I did another install, I would not use the supplied kit items such as the air intake silencer, the cheap exhaust muffler, the cardboard air ducting, and the exhaust pipe. I'd probably get a muffler shop to run a proper exhaust, and I'd use silicon pipe for warm air and PVC for cold air flow. Also, as you want to sometimes run Kerosene to clean the system, I'd recommend not T'ing into your fuel line (for diesel vehicles obviously) a separate fuel tank that is T'd with shutoff valves that would allow you to switch tank feed lines. I also have found that the more expensive higher Cetane value diesel runs better in the heater than the regular diesel that I add lubricity agent to, which apparently the heaters do not like.

Thanks to the original poster for starting this thread - and to those that have contributed!
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DanHoug
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 13, 2018 6:26 am    Post subject: Re: Silencing your Webasto / Espar Heater Reply with quote

TSellers2- what do you think of the Chinese Espar clone overall? if one mods the intake and exhaust materials, does it seem like a decent unit then?

i've been happy enough with the Mr Heater Buddy that it has kept me from getting one but i think about it.
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 13, 2018 8:31 am    Post subject: Re: Silencing your Webasto / Espar Heater Reply with quote

Thanks Dan,

I'm still having some problems with my heater install, but hope I can get it figured out. Last night it ran for perhaps 6 hours on Kerosene, and then stopped. I am getting the impression that I may be having problems with my fuel feed, so I may try another fuel pump when I get the spare.

It has been 10 months and I now have lots of experience with these. I even bought another one when I suspected the first might be faulty (the Chinese seller actually refunded me for the first, which was amazing). A few weeks ago I had it run all night on diesel at 7200' elevation with no issues. I have learned a lot about installing these, so probably I will make a Youtube instruction video when I'm done.

So for now I'll have to reserve judgement. I have seen that lots of users experience the same problems with belching white smoke as I often have. It still could be due to an install issue so I don't want to pass judgement. In theory you could get the core unit and the necessary parts for about $300.00, and then spend some more on a better exhaust and air intake system.

So I'll update here when I can make something up, which I will endeavor to do this coming week.
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erste
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 13, 2018 10:12 am    Post subject: Re: Silencing your Webasto / Espar Heater Reply with quote

TSellers2 wrote:
I'm still having some problems with my heater install, but hope I can get it figured out. Last night it ran for perhaps 6 hours on Kerosene, and then stopped. I am getting the impression that I may be having problems with my fuel feed, so I may try another fuel pump when I get the spare.


https://www.letonkinoisvarnish.co.uk/eberspacher_intro_1.html

Fuel quantity test:
https://www.letonkinoisvarnish.co.uk/eberspacher_fuel_2.html

Since you're using the china copy, I'm not sure how much these links will help, but it looks to be identical to the D2, so it's probably a good starting point.
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