Engine Won't Start. Not so Super Beetle.

[biggyfries21]

Hi Ya'll

Okay, I've had my 1974 Super Beetle for 10 years and still kind of a "newb" so hopefully someone can help.

A couple years ago I had by engine rebuilt to the stock 1600. A couple weeks ago I took it in to have fixed what I goofed: new 009 distributor, new Bosch coil, duel Webers, new fuel pump and fully tuned and timed. I picked it up the other week, turned the key and it fired right up. Here's where it went south.

Even though the Super fired right away, there wasn't much gas in the tank so we figured the engine was running off the gas in the carburetors. I turned off the engine, started it again and it fired but then died right away. No biggy. I figured it was finally out of gas

A week after getting it home I drained the old gas (only about a cup) and put a gallon of fresh gas in the tank. I charged up the battery, cranked it over and it fired right up but as soon as I release the key, it died. There's definitely a combustion but no idle no nothing. As a matter of fact, if I hold the key when I start it, it sounds like I'm using the ignition/key to accelerate/pump the gas.

I figured maybe the fuel pump isn't pulling from the tank so I got a gallon of gas, stuck fuel hose from the fuel pump inlet into the gas can to see if maybe the tank was the issue. Same thing happen. It fired and died when I released the key. Now the filter at the gas tank is full but the filter just before the pump is almost dry. Maybe just a couple of drops. Not sure if the fuel pump is bad or if this is an electrical ignition problem.

Thanks for reading through my long rant and with that said, help me Samba. You're my only hope.

[wcfvw69]

If you're sure you have no fuel obstructions from the bugs fuel tank to the fuel pump, do this. Fill up your fuel tank. Unhook the fuel hose from the 'out' side of the fuel pump. Push another piece of hose on there that's long enough to reach a can or bucket. Turn the engine over. Is any fuel coming out of the pump under pressure? If not, investigate why the pump is not working.

*Is this a new fuel pump or flange?
*Does it have the correct length fuel pump push rod installed?

Report back your findings.
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[andk5591]

Letting an old car run out of gas is stupid. NEVER let it get below 1/4 tank because you run a greater risk of getting debris in your lines. Pull the fuel line by the rear axle and see what kind of flow you are getting. Should be a nice strong stream. If not, your tank outlet screen and/or main fuel line is clogged.
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Rosie 65 bug - My mostly stock daily driver.
Woodie 69 VW woodie (Hot VWs 7/12).
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Maxine 61 Cal-look bug - Cindy's daily driver.
Max - 73 standard Beetle hearse project - For sale
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[cbeck]

I think I picked up on one of your statements-it does actually start and run until you returned the key from start to run? If that is the case, you could have a bad switch. That can be verified by checking for 12 volts at the coil positive terminal with the key in the run position. Fuel at the carb can be verified by looking down carb throat for a squirt of fuel while working throttle linkage by hand.

[Cusser]

[biggyfries21]

Thanks everyone for your advise. It's been awhile since I've been able to spend some time with my Super Beetle but I was finally able to try some of your recommendations.

Thinking the issue was fuel related, I pulled the hose from the line by the engine and I've got a nice steady fuel stream. Looking at the fuel filter, it doesn't fill all the way full -- maybe about quarter to half full -- but I can see fuel being pumped. I haven't looked down the carb barrels, I'll do that tomorrow, but it fires so I assume fuel is getting in there.

Thinking it's ignition issues (I'm still thinking that's the case) I replaced the ignition switch. With the new ignition switch installed, I started the Super Beetle at the key and using a remote starter button. Both results are the same: it fires-up but them cuts out. I haven't thrown a multimeter on the coil to check the voltage but I'll tackle that tomorrow. Anyway, I haven't made too much progress.

Below are two videos I've uploaded to YouTube. One shows what happens when I release the ignition button and the other shows fuel pumping into the filter. Also, here's a few photos showing my electrical setup. Not sure if it'll help but I thought I'd include it anyway.

https://youtu.be/d_4SXuRNQGY
https://youtu.be/mBTivL1Ltj0

If anyone has any advice or suggestions, I'm all ears. Once I finally get the engine to run, I'll post an update with "the fix."

Cheers,

[/url]

[heimlich]

Please show us your fuel pump. Take a hose and put it on the outlet side and try and start the car. You should see fuel pump out of it. Keep a fire extinguisher handy.

If no fuel comes out that's one of the answers.

Do you have that fuel filter in the engine compartment?
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[Eric&Barb]

Fuel filters are not going to fill all the way, and the engine will still run. At least that is what we have found in over 300,000+ miles of driving these old ACVWS.

Please stop just replacing parts at random. A lot less expensive in time and money to do tests first. Then if a part tests bad, have it repaired or replace. If you suspect a part, and do not know how to test, do a search of the forums, and check out the FAQs. If no luck that way, ask in this thread

Might try draining each carb, and refilling directly with fresh fuel. Have had water in tank get into the carb that caused problems.

Personally would have advised against dual carbs for a newbie. Stock single carb is a steep enough learning curve for the novice.
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[biggyfries21]

Thanks for the feedback. I'll check that the carbs are pumping into the barrels but I'm not so sure it's a fuel issue. I mean, it definitely fires up but cuts out when the key or ignition switch is released. The engine was rebuilt in September, I picked it up in October and it ran great when I picked it up. The only thing I did different was drain the tank and add new fuel but I checked the fuel flow out the back and it looked good.

[sb001]

[biggyfries21]

The filter is on the outlet of the pump going to the carburetors.

[sb001]

[andk5591]

Easy fuel test - start it and use starting fluid sprayed down the carb to see if you can keep it running. If so, its fuel. If not, its ignition.
_________________
D-Dubya Manx clone - 63 Short pan,1914.
Rosie 65 bug - My mostly stock daily driver.
Woodie 69 VW woodie (Hot VWs 7/12).
"John's car" 64 VW woodie - The first ever
Maxine 61 Cal-look bug - Cindy's daily driver.
Max - 73 standard Beetle hearse project - For sale
66 bug project - Real patina & Suby conversion
There's more, but not keeping them...

[Cusser]

[biggyfries21]

Thanks Y'all. I sprayed starter fluid and it runs but I have to hold the key or starter button in the start position. Matter of fact, I can hold the ignition button and pump the throttle, which works fine, but then cuts out when I let go. Even when I pump the throttle after letting go of the ignition, it doesn't do anything. Only when I hold the ignition in start position.

https://youtu.be/mBTivL1Ltj0

I'll give it another go tomorrow.

Cheers

[Cusser]

[andk5591]

Cant remember if a 74 switch uses the plug just for the switch or if its part of that half moon connector under the steering column. Anyway, here's a couple conclusive tests you can do. Find a 12V power source (non switched) Wire from the battery is fine or if you have 12V on the alternator unswitched. Run a wire from that to the hot side of the coil and use your remote starter. (have the remote starter ready when you make the connection - you dont want to leave power to a non running engine for any real length of time - Minute is OK, but not a lot longer)

If it starts and runs, then everything is fine back there and the issue is upstream. (make sure you have power to the idle cut off valve - should already be connected to the hot side of the coil)....Wait a second...For shits and giggles - test that (idle cut off)...Thinking it should still run a little bit but stall out.....

OK - lets assume it runs and the its in the switch. Now, find a wiring diagram and pull the connector from the switch under the column...Figure out which 2 pins feed power to the coil. Jump them and hit your remote starter. If it runs, then it MAY be the electrical portion of the switch. What you just confirmed is that your wiring is good.

BUT first take some contact cleaner and spray it in the connector and put it on and off several times. I ran into this a recently, but it was on the start position that didnt work intermittently. This was after I had replaced the electrical portion of the switch which is a REAL pain in the ass. IF you replace the electrical portion of the switch, make sure its the correct one. I found that there were 2 different styles and my parts store only was able to find the one, which was incorrect.

This should get you sorted out.
_________________
D-Dubya Manx clone - 63 Short pan,1914.
Rosie 65 bug - My mostly stock daily driver.
Woodie 69 VW woodie (Hot VWs 7/12).
"John's car" 64 VW woodie - The first ever
Maxine 61 Cal-look bug - Cindy's daily driver.
Max - 73 standard Beetle hearse project - For sale
66 bug project - Real patina & Suby conversion
There's more, but not keeping them...

[biggyfries21]

Well, it runs. Sorta. I ran the hot wire from the battery to the coil and it fires right up. Ran smoothly too albeit it idled on the higher side. At least that rules out a fuel issue.

The ignition switch for the 74 is a removable electrical plug. I just bought a new one thinking (and desperately hoping) that was the problem but no dice. It's doing the same thing. I ran a multimeter to the coil and the Ohms measure within range so now I'm thinking it's a gremiln in the wires or fuse block. I'll clean the leads and plugs and see if I can jump it from the ignition switch.

[andk5591]

Thats what I ended up doing (jumping at the switch socket. Do not do the "jump" into the plug itself or else you may crud up the connectors in it. Insert the wires into the plug and then touch the wires together. You will probably get a little sparking and better on a wire than instode your connector.
_________________
D-Dubya Manx clone - 63 Short pan,1914.
Rosie 65 bug - My mostly stock daily driver.
Woodie 69 VW woodie (Hot VWs 7/12).
"John's car" 64 VW woodie - The first ever
Maxine 61 Cal-look bug - Cindy's daily driver.
Max - 73 standard Beetle hearse project - For sale
66 bug project - Real patina & Suby conversion
There's more, but not keeping them...

[sb001]

Would it be possible to tell us which fuse on the fuse block you have the coil wire coming off of? It sure seems like you have the coil wired to starter power instead of ignition power. Once you release the key, the ignition switch snaps back to only allowing power out the 15 terminal to the fuse block- starter power stops. So if you somehow have the coil wired to the starter output, the coil would stop firing as soon as you release the key.
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