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Ratbug68
Samba Member
Joined: June 19, 2017
Posts: 79
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 Posted: Mon Oct 16, 2017 7:26 am Post subject: no brake pedal |
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| All new brakes in, bled rears, pedal went to floor. Never came up high when pumped. Fronts had some fluid discharge, but pedal never went to floor. Low and spongy, but stops, slow. No pulling side to side, stops straight. HELP, like the idea of stopping. |
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Cusser
Samba Member
Joined: October 02, 2006
Posts: 31362
Location: Hot Arizona
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| Posted: Mon Oct 16, 2017 7:32 am Post subject: Re: no brake pedal |
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| Ratbug68 wrote: |
| All new brakes in |
You need to describe better and more explicitly. Let's assume that yours is a 1968 VW. Did you do lines, wheel cylinders, hardware, clean the adjusters???
| Ratbug68 wrote: |
| Fronts had some fluid discharge, but pedal never went to floor. |
Sounds like the front flexible lines need to be replaced. Maybe do the rears too.
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1970 VW (owned since 1972) and 1971 VW Convertible (owned since 1976), second owner of each. The '71 now has the 1835 engine, swapped from the '70. Second owner of each. 1988 Mazda B2200 truck, 1998 Frontier, 2014 Yukon, 2004 Frontier King Cab. All manual transmission except for the Yukon. http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/album_page.php?pic_id=335294 http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/album_page.php?pic_id=335297 |
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bluebus86
Banned
Joined: September 02, 2010
Posts: 11075
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| Posted: Mon Oct 16, 2017 7:39 am Post subject: Re: no brake pedal |
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| Ratbug68 wrote: |
| All new brakes in, bled rears, pedal went to floor. Never came up high when pumped. Fronts had some fluid discharge, but pedal never went to floor. Low and spongy, but stops, slow. No pulling side to side, stops straight. HELP, like the idea of stopping. |
fluid discharge at front brakes sounds to me like your have discribed a leak, correct? if so that need be addressed, that could be the cause of the problems you discribe, weak brakes, low pedal are symptoms of a leak. it could be your only stopping with the rear brakes right now, the fronts not working.
get this fixed asap.
good luck, now stop it!
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Ratbug68
Samba Member
Joined: June 19, 2017
Posts: 79
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| Posted: Mon Oct 16, 2017 8:10 am Post subject: Re: no brake pedal |
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| Front has new flexible lines, metal lines and cylinders. Shoes and hardware. Rears has new shoes and drums. New master and metal line from master to ‘T’ in rear. Sorry for lack of info! |
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bluebus86
Banned
Joined: September 02, 2010
Posts: 11075
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| Posted: Mon Oct 16, 2017 8:40 am Post subject: Re: no brake pedal |
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| Ratbug68 wrote: |
| Front has new flexible lines, metal lines and cylinders. Shoes and hardware. Rears has new shoes and drums. New master and metal line from master to ‘T’ in rear. Sorry for lack of info! |
y
What about the front fluid discharge, is that a leak you discribe or....?
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Ratbug68
Samba Member
Joined: June 19, 2017
Posts: 79
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| Posted: Mon Oct 16, 2017 8:49 am Post subject: Re: no brake pedal |
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| Can’t find leak anywhere. Discharge I described is after pumping pedal, holding and me opening bleeder screw. No pedal movement. |
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ashman40
Samba Member
Joined: February 16, 2007
Posts: 15982
Location: North Florida, USA
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| Posted: Mon Oct 16, 2017 9:19 am Post subject: Re: no brake pedal |
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| Ratbug68 wrote: |
| Can’t find leak anywhere. Discharge I described is after pumping pedal, holding and me opening bleeder screw. No pedal movement. |
This reminds me of the time I had my young daughter helping me bleed my brakes for the 1st time. I gave her instructions of how to pump the brake pedal and then hold while I opened the bleeder valve.
After almost an hours struggling with little to no fluid coming out of the bleeder valves I go up front and ask her to show me what she is doing. She was pumping the accelerator pedal... my carb bowl was empty and my engine flooded.  
My fault for not being specific and assuming a 10-year old knew how the pedals on a car worked. 
| Ratbug68 wrote: |
... rears, pedal went to floor. Never came up high when pumped.
Fronts had some fluid discharge, but pedal never went to floor. |
This is confusing. At the rear, the pedal drops to the floor when you open the bleeder valve?
At the front, the pedal doesn't drop to the floor when you open the bleeder valves?
They are different circuits so I suppose it is possible. But you are describing that the front circuits are clogged somewhere?
I recommend you try bleeding the brakes at different points along the circuit. For example, pump the brakes and while holding slightly loosen the brake lines at the MC. This will bleed any air from the MC. Move down the steel lines to the next junction and bleed it there. This will systematically remove air from the lines. Also, if you reach a point where fluid does not squirt out, you know there is some obstruction between this junction and the last one.
You mentioned replacing one set of rubber brake hoses. If you don't know the age of the other set, I'd recommend replacing them as well. Over time they are known to swell internally and can create a valve-like action that only allows fluid to flow in one direction, or not flow at all.
When I first bought my Beetle I replaced the entire brake system except the MC (because it was working and they were hard to source). The wheel-end parts are cheap and it was more for my peace of mind than anything else.
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AshMan40
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bluebus86
Banned
Joined: September 02, 2010
Posts: 11075
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| Posted: Mon Oct 16, 2017 9:40 am Post subject: Re: no brake pedal |
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| Ratbug68 wrote: |
| Can’t find leak anywhere. Discharge I described is after pumping pedal, holding and me opening bleeder screw. No pedal movement. |
8
This action of opening the bleed screw without the pedel in the down stroke if you didnt have a tube filled with fluid attached to the bleeder could have introduced air into the system, causing what you discribe as symptoms.
maybe the brakes simply need to be rebled? make sure to attach a tube to bleeder, other end of tube in a clean jar of fluid, this will allow air to escape on down stroke, but wont allow air to return on upstroke.
often when new parts are installed it may take multible bleeding to get all the air removed. make sure your following the correct bleeding proceedure, some times it has to be repeated to assure all air is out
so give the rebleed a go, that might be the problem. hopefully it is and you will be back on the road soon, stopping with confidence.
good luck, Bug On!
ps I find it good to flush at least a full quart of fluid thru the system, this assures removal,of all old fluid, and gunk and trapped air. you really want it all flushed out, your brake will work best this way also no need to open bleeder screws a lot, this can allow air backmin thru the threads, just crack it open a bit.
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Ratbug68
Samba Member
Joined: June 19, 2017
Posts: 79
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| Posted: Mon Oct 16, 2017 3:32 pm Post subject: Re: no brake pedal |
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| So I hooked up hose to bleeder screw and had other end in a jar with brake fluid in it. Cracked open bleeder screw and had lots of bubbles and lost about half of the fluid on one side of the reservoir! So master should also be bled of air now. Will bleed fronts again with same set up later. Thanks for all the suggestions and knowledge from you guys! Much appreciated. |
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heimlich 
VWNOS.com
Joined: November 20, 2016
Posts: 6593
Location: Houston, Texas
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| Posted: Mon Oct 16, 2017 10:24 pm Post subject: Re: no brake pedal |
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I've always had a helper bleed the brakes. This is the only successful way I know of.
Slow and steady. They push and hold the pedal. The other opens and closes the valve. Repeat until all air is gone. Once all wheels are done repeat again.
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andk5591
Samba Member
Joined: August 29, 2005
Posts: 16757
Location: State College, PA
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| Posted: Tue Oct 17, 2017 6:33 am Post subject: Re: no brake pedal |
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We just got done doing a 78 Vert the other day. New shoes, wheel cylinders, soft lines, master etc. and had similar (which is typical)
Sounds like you are getting there. You need to bleed until you get a good flow of fluid and no air from each wheel. And not just one time without air. You can get a couple pumps with all fluid and then you can get a good blast of bubbles.....Go through it again. I usually go all around the car at least one more time after I think I have it bled.
Typically we do at least 2 or 3 complete brake jobs a year, so have been through this a bit. I think one of these days I'm gonna break down and buy a pressure bleeder, but we can usually get a car bled in well under a half hour. Less if I have a helper.
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Patty B.
Samba Member
Joined: July 14, 2005
Posts: 2181
Location: Brampton, Ontario, Canada
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| Posted: Tue Oct 17, 2017 12:00 pm Post subject: Re: no brake pedal |
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The mechanic that did my brakes 2 mths ago had a similar problem--new cylinders all around and new master cylinder---bleed bleed bleed, bleed bleed bleed---get help with another mechanic, both old tyme ac VW guys, repeat and still no pressure.
He discovered because of the orientation of the front brake cylinders--he took them off and checked them--air was trapped at the top of the cylinder and wouldn't budge--knowing that he did something and got it done in short order. I assume he bench bled these, he didn't really tell me, he was happy to be done with it lol
I don't know why this was a problem now as he'd not encountered this before, could just be one of those dumb things that happen.
Good luck in hunting your brake issues. |
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heimlich
VWNOS.com
Joined: November 20, 2016
Posts: 6593
Location: Houston, Texas
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| Posted: Tue Oct 17, 2017 1:02 pm Post subject: Re: no brake pedal |
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I redid mine and tried to get the air out. I found out the brake pads had slipped over the notch on the backing plate and got stuck so that wheel cylinder pistons were pushed out and at an angle. You have to grease the backside of those plates on the rear.
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Classic Brands. Classic Quality.
Not all parts are made the same. NOS OE/OEM parts made mainly in West Germany, Early Germany, and Early Brazil are where VW produced the best quality parts and best fitting products.
5% Off your order with coupon code: 5%OFF
Restored Distributors Available (<--Click here) |
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