Well I just ran my auto trans dry for about 2 minutes

[jwallis]

So I think this is the 2nd dumbest thing I've done in my life, the first being working on a running engine with a rag that resulted in a trip to the hospital.

What's so painful about this is that I'd just finished a bostig conversion, and due to having been a little hard on the transmission last time I mated it and the diff, I wanted to change the fluid. Problem is I forgot to refill it.

This was for the first start of the bostig and I ran the engine about 2 minutes. I realized what I'd done, broke some things, and then went about filling it and continuing the process.

On the street it ran ok, shifted kind of hard, but maybe that's part of hte bostig conversion? It started making a whine when it was cold but went away quickly. Now it makes the whine all the time and is leaking from the driver's side top mating bolt. Fluid level is good, checked diff level and it is also good (both fluids look clean. I've now got about 40 miles on it post &^%#-up.

I was hoping best case that not too many of the parts were moving, but obviously anything connected to the big rod connected to the torque convertor was.

The only other thing I did was swap in a new magnefine trans fluid filter, but I have no reason to believe that's an issue, although maybe I should pull it and see if anything changes.

If anyone has experience with this or can confidently tell me I'm fried or possibly ok I'd be happy to hear from you.
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[Abscate]

If you ran it for two minutes but didn't drive it...breathe in the air and savor the sweet taste of nothing wrong, unless you are evil and have an empty karmic bucket
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[kourt]

I agree. If you had no ATF in the automatic transmission and you idled a cold engine for two minutes but did not actually drive, you probably have nothing to worry about.

Make sure you fill and check the transmission level properly, as most people get it wrong:

1. hot engine (driven 10 miles)
2. parked on level surface
3. engine idling while checking ATF
4. level should be between two dots on dipstick

kourt

[SyncroButter]

Another vote for "this should not cause any problems."
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In the stable: 1986 Syncro Westfalia/Bostig, 1989 Doka Tristar, 1974 Vespa Rally 200, 1973 Vespa Primavera 125, 1963 Solex 2200, 1938 Buick Special
Gone but not forgotten: 1989 Porsche 944, 1973 Standard Beetle

[AtlasShrugged]

The ATF pump in the transmission really wants ATF flowing or it will be damaged..that may be the "whine" you are hearing. Drive it for a while and see what you got.

Don't know about the ATF leak problem from the driver's side top mating bolt..not related to the no ATF issue. Need a picture.

[kourt]

I'm curious---how hard did you try to empty the ATF from the transmission? It's pretty hard to get it all out, so the likelihood of you running the transmission completely dry is very low.

kourt

[jwallis]

I'm happy to hear your words of encouragement! I should have felt the housing to see if it was very hot after I realized what I'd done. I drained it and changed the filter and saw a little brass flake but nothing that was alarming. I cut open the magnefilter and saw nothing significant there either.

I was a little concerned that I'd burned up the back-to-back seals but as noted, I don't think there is any mixing of the trans/diff fluid.

Since the whine happens on startup it makes me wonder if it's the trans fluid pump. The fluid coming out may be due to too much pressure. Makes me think maybe the new magnefine is bad, although I know it's letting at least some fluid through because the external trans oil cooler I set up is getting warm. I will bypass the filter and see if it stops.

---

Interesting point Court, since it was during the bostig, I had taken the torque convertor off and drained it some, but didn't siphon it. I took the pan off of course. Certainly may have had some left in there.

Thank you to everyone who's helping, I'm pretty sad after spending 2 months every night doing this conversion in my back yard on dirt and plywood. This is after a failed 1.9->2.1 swap a year ago (2.1 turned out bad).

It was pooling and dripping at the bottom, making me thing it was coming out between the 12" diameter oring/seal between the trans and diff, but I'm thinking it's actually coming from this bolt. Passenger side is a little oily but not dripping like this side...

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[kourt]

From those photos it looks like the main o-ring between the transmission and differential has failed. Did you separate the trans from the diff during the conversion?

You know how Bostig is about transmissions: leave them alone during the conversion.

http://www.van-cafe.com/page_545_1007/final-drive-to-automatic-seals

kourt

[AtlasShrugged]

Could be the big "O" ring between the transmission and diff is leaking as the ATF is all over that area...OR..the stud/bolt that looks like it is leaking ATF is not sealed by that "O" ring but two large paper gaskets on each side of the large metal "intermediate plate" at the end of the transmission assembly.

Those paper gaskets can fail due to age..they were made like newspaper..very delicate. The replacement kit gaskets are better.

It looks like the bottom of the governor cover is wet too..if that "O" ring is leaking ATF it might be running down and wetting the stud and transmission case.

That governor cover "O" ring is easy enough to replace.

The big "O" ring and paper gaskets is a bigger job.

Running low on ATF for a few minutes, at idle, will not burn up the "back to back" seals..I would worry about the AFT pump..as I said..drive it and see if the transmission is noisy or won't shift well. That will tell you how the ATF pump is doing.

[jimf909]

[jwallis]

I split the trans/diff when I did the 1.9->2.1 swap specifically so that I could replace the back to back seals, big o-ring, governor o-ring and paper seals. Never any leakage, worked like a charm, used expensive seals all around. During the bostig I did not split the two.

The other thing that happened during the bostig is that while the engine was suspended from the rear and I was lifting the trans mount with a trolley jack, the trans mount slipped off the jack and dropped onto the wood or plywood below, just a few inches, and I believe full of fluid at that time. I assume little damage was done, but God to I want to never have to do that again.

The trans has always been fairly noisy while moving, especially in first, which I assume is normal. It has never leaked before, always solid. After the bostig I thought I was good to go, but after about 10-15 miles the whine (and I believe the leak) both started intermittently, and both have grown to being consistent.

Tonight I tried bypassing the magnefine filter using a plastic hose mender and the hose came off and blew several ounces of trans fluid out on the driveway, which was fun. There seems to be a huge amount of pressure from that pump. I was able to bypass the filter and ran it very briefly and it sounds better but I still think the not AS bad whine is there. Going to try a drive tomorrow I guess. Here's a youtube of the videos I took: https://youtu.be/s0hdNAF2s6A
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[AtlasShrugged]

The 010 Vanagon first gear whine is very normal and the good news is your ATF pump is working. The Magnafine filter is a good idea and should not be a problem. Change the Magnafine filter every 15K/20K.

I listened to the YouTube..hard to tell what is going on.

Clean the transmission/diff completely and look for exactly where the ATF is leaking from..and hope it is the governor cover "O" ring..easy to change.

[Steve M.]

The big problem which is not recognized when working on your car, any car, is fatigue.
We bust a nut all day long to do a major repair or modification and it takes longer then expected so we're running behind and working late.
You finally get it finished and you just have to drive to know it's working.
This when the mistakes are made from simple things you would have seen if you were not tired.
Days like this it is perhaps better to step away from the job and take a break.
A checklist off what was removed the day before or weekends ago when the job was started, while it sounds a bit anal can really help.
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[alaskadan]

Ironic that this post just came up. A friend bought a van to fix and flip. Engine wasn't a runner. He just got it running and puts it in drive, no go. After pulling engine he found the atf pump shaft was missing. Did he damage the trans by running the engine and trying to through the gears?

[AtlasShrugged]

[alaskadan]

Right!? Story was the po blew up original engine and swapped in another but never got it running. And evidently at some point the pump shaft fell out....?

[AtlasShrugged]

[jwallis]

I'd love if it was the governor seal but I'm pretty sure it isn't (will give it a try though). I blew up a governor just a few months after buying the van and later on a different gov had an intermittent "no upshift" issue which turned out to be easily fixed by bending the governor arms ever so slightly.

Didn't know that was the pump rod, but certainly could fall out since it's not captive.

Thanks jimf909, I need recognize how easily I could have done myself a lot worse and gotten away with it, something we can all probably relate to.