Rear heater delete?

[GreggK]

Hello All,
I'm in the final stages of a diesel engine install. I will be hooking up my heater hoses soon. I plan to install an Espar diesel heater so I thought to eliminate my rear stock heater. Does anyone have an opinion on this?
are there any drawbacks if I were to do this. How would it effect my engines cooling function?
I'm thinking that I would just use the Espar while driving when needed. Is that unsafe?
I'd love to hear from anyone with any advice. Thanks, GreggK

[dustinwor]

I'm in the middle of a ahu swap now , I have deleted mine and if need be you can run the 2 hoses back to each other my sister has a espar d2 in her 144 sprinter 4x4 we installed and we're very impressed with it we have run it while driving with no problems I will be installing one in my van when it's finished

[GreggK]

Hey Dustinwor that's all good to hear. I had thought to just run the hoses directly from the engine to the front heater. Maybe that will aid in the heat out put too. I'm using a smallcar in-dash A/C heater system and I've that it has inadequate heat and it has great heat as well. Guess Ill find out one way or another.

[WillSharp]

I removed mine to install a proper heater. No problems. Just replace the T connectors in the heater lines with strait barbs (5/8").
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1889 Syncro Adventure Wagon 3.3 SVX

[erdonline]

Here's two pages of reading on the subject.

https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=527831

There are other threads as well. The long and short of it, and the apparent consensus from here and other sites, is that you should either take out the tee entirely, or cap the hoses instead of connecting them together. The rear heater plumbing has a restrictor, which serves to only allow some of the coolant to the rear. If you connect them together, you won't allow enough coolant to the front heater core.

Ed
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'84 Vanagon 7-passenger
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[IdahoDoug]

I don't know what the Espar does in btu output or fan power getting it around the cabin. So I don't have a head to head comparo. However, my rear heater has a new heater core and O ring (the frequent cause of a leak) and it kicks ass. I literally melted a pair of tennis shoes one winter drive with it on low.

Up here where we often do winter adventures I value that extra heat output. I know its trendy to eliminate it, but on a really cold day with a drafty Van on the freeway its nice to have so much heat output you feel you can easily overpower Mother Nature's worst.

On the other hand, having an auxiliary heater like an Espar is nice because you could arrive at a night camp spot with the heater already running and hot and shut down the engine and keep seamless heat going. That's pretty tasty.
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[E1]

All I'd add is if you must eliminate, keep all the stock stuff for resale/authenticity/pay it forward, etc.
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[Multiman mv]

I just did this exact scenario (installed a tdi and eliminated my rear heater and installed an espar D2.) I always smelled coolant when running my rear heater so eliminating it was a no brainer especially after deciding on the espar. The Espar puts out a ton of heat and the blower is powerful and can move air around the cabin quite efficiently. I imagine it will be great for warming the van up on a winter day. I have run it while driving with no issues. While camping, the espar unit requires a fair amount of battery juice to get through its initial warm up phase (which can be quite loud. You might want to consider an intake muffler?) after the warm up phase it is whisper quiet though. Just make sure you have enough battery power to sustain the heater through the night if not hooked up to shore power with a battery charger charging your aux battery. I have a solar system that charges my aux battery enough to run the espar all night. From what I've heard, the heater doesn't use a ton of battery but requires a fair amount of juice during the start up phase. If it doesn't have enough battery it will go into shut down mode after 3 minutes. Also, the heater can put out some condensation and cause condensation depending on outside temperatures. If you run it without the top popped you want to pop the top in the morning at least and get the moisture out after a night of running. Other than that, it's an awesome unit and I imagine you will be real happy with it.

[Abscate]

How is moisture coming into with the diesel heater? Combustion gases have to be vented out, you don't get complete combustion with a diesel heater, so I'm a bit concerned if you are getting water load.
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[djkeev]

I agree 100%!

I'm guessing his moisture is from either a high ambient humidity and/or being in a totally closed box for the night exhaling warm moisture which builds up where the warm interior air meets the cold exterior air.

If the moisture is from the combustion of the fuel, I'd have major concerns and stop using that heater NOW!!!!!!!!

being on the New England coast which is NOT a low humidity area, I'm guessing it is simply environmental moisture.

Dave
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[kipkohl]

Don't have any experience with an Espar, but my rear heater is a blast furnace compared to my older Propex. I'd be inclined to keep the stock heater when you install the Espar if space permits.

[davevickery]

Getting road dust and other crap sucked into the Espar while driving is a real issue. You can use a filter like the ones that go on Goped scooter motors but you also need the combustion air intake located in a place that minimizes it. When the heater isn't running it won't suck crap into it, but when it is, it is like a little vacuum.

[GreggK]

There are definitely some good points to think about. I'm glad multiman mv chimed in. I'm actually doing a FAS diesel install as well. Jon sent some pics of your build and I saw the Espar but didn't know you deleted your rear heater too.
My main reasons to remove the heater were to keep as much space under the seat. Being able to have one heater for camping and driving. Dave brings up a good point about the heater sucking in crap while driving. My third reason, which I'm not really sure is true, is that I'd get more heat out of the front heater. One time I ran for awhile without the rear heater and I felt like I had more heat up front.
I figure I could always mount the Espar out of the way of the stock heater location and if I didn't like the results I could easily re-install the stock heater.

[davevickery]

You have probably seen the Espar install in that little cubby cabinet. That is a bit more of a hassle to install there but I think it is probably the best location. You still get to use most of the space in that cabinet and you don't loose any space under the seat. And it is in an enclose cabinet and still outputs under the bed for noise reduction.

Some other install tips. The noisiest thing outside is the exhaust. The muffler helps a lot but a couple extra feet of hose and having it come out in the back or opposite the slider door helps. Also exhaust by the slider does get into the van. When you open the door, it creates a bit of vacuum and the exhaust gets pulled in.

Inside the noisest part of the heater is the cold air intake. If you can put some intake hose on that it helps. A silencer on the intake helps a lot.

The fuel pump can be put inside a coolant hose and rubber mounted to the van outside. It goes from being annoying inside and out to hardly noticable.

You are probably right that the front heater will be a little hotter with no rear heater. You are splitting the coolant between the heaters so it seems logical. But the rear heater is nice to have if you drive a lot in winter time. I use my Webasto to defrost the van in the winter but if you are just jumping in and going, I think the rear heater is nice. Of course, I say that, and I removed mine.

[Multiman mv]

I actually just used my espar again the other night but this time I tried it with my window insulation kit and I had little to no moisture in the van in the morning. I would say my first few experiences were due to ambient moisture and from three of us exhaling all night. I guess my only point is keep an eye on moisture if you have a pop top but don't pop the top and run the heat. When I popped the top in the morning the first few times I used it there was a bunch of moisture dripping from the pop top. The window insulation definitely made a big difference with the moisture level up top. I guess this is just common sense but figured I'd mention it. The flocking on the tops are prone to mold, especially when introducing moisture, whether through humidity or condensation.

GreggK you will not be disappointed with FAS. I am really happy with everything they did. My conversion has run flawlessly and I am really happy with the power. She definitely gets a little on the louder side but only over 65-67 mph. Below that, the tdi is surprisingly quiet. I put a lot of time into soundproofing and it has made a big difference overall. With that said, the FAS tdi conversion is really quiet in my opinion. You will be very happy with the conversion. The Espar install was one of my favorite upgrades. It is really nice to never have to deal with filling up propane. It is so hassle free and convenient and the heater itself throws a ton of heat. Are you doing the install or is FAS doing the work?

[GreggK]

I like the thought of being able to use the same fuel to run the van as well as to heat it. I never had an auxiliary heater so I cant really compare. I lived in Colorado for 19years and spent many winter nights sleeping in the van at 9,800 ft +. So this will sure be a luxury. I thought I saw some kind of high altitude sensor available for the Espar? Anyone familiar with that?
Multiman mv, I picked up my engine kit back in March. Ive been working on it ever since. I had a great start with hopes of taking a nice x-county trip this summer but jobs just kept piling up so extra time became limited real fast. Now I'm just hoping for a initial start up before there is snow! I sent you a PM when I first saw your build. Your post led me to order one of those transmission mounts too. It looks like all is going well and your happy. I have a bunch of pictures so far. I was going to wait till I was finished to post them but I'm thinking I'll put up some pictures of the progress I've made so far.

[kamzcab86]

[Multiman mv]

[Gruppe B]

I have both the rear heater and a Espar D2. In cold conditions the rear coolant heater is incredible! I have 3 little ones, the factory rear heat is mandatory

[Multiman mv]

I did want to add that I insulated the heck out of my van for both sound and heat and it has made a massive difference in both. I already mentioned how much sound control it has offered but the van now takes very little heat to bring it up to temperature and to maintain temp. I used dynamat extreme for sound and 1/2" dynaliner on the inside of every possible panel and headliner and added Roxul where I could. It was well worth the effort. My kids often tell me that the van is too hot and this is just from using the heat from up front. If you take the time to insulate you will not regret the time and effort put into it. Before, I used to run the heat on full blast to try to get heat back to the kids now I run it half blast and for much shorter runs. While camping the d2 is capable of heating the van in minutes and the heat retains for a long time.

Photo taken in the process of finishing the side panel with 1/2" dynaliner for heat retention over dynamat extreme for sound. I was able to fit a layer of roxul over the dynaliner as well for added sound control.