Rebuild advice

[alman72]

the wire loom with the hard plastic cover is/was your diagnostic port. some people leave them for OG, some yank 'em.

[williamM]

[CarlosZ]

I got the engine running but have a knock that the builder and a local mechanic say is an exhaust leak. The 3/4 side has no reaction to disconnecting the plug wires. Disconnecting the 1/2 side results in the engine wanting to die. They've only heard a video I have as I'm afraid to drive it. After some more reading Ive realized that I needed to anneal the copper gaskets. They were new and now have 2 miles of drive time or about 30 minutes of running time on the engine. I used a MAPP and heated them but couldn't get them orange or red as in a video I saw. They don't make a ding sound anymore when dropped, just a thud and can be bent with one hand. How do you know when they've been annealed properly? And is there a top/bottom side to the gasket? Is it ok to give it another blast with the MAPP? I was previously using new stainless nuts and washers that wouldn't allow the socket to fit so I wasn't able to torque down all the way and was obviously loose. I just bought the proper copper nuts and filed where the exhaust mates with the head. It was pretty level already and noticed no warping. The gaskets were in straight by using a dab of crazy glue so I know they were seated properly.

Oh yeah, just got the fan back. Won't take that apart again. Sorry for all the scattered thoughts. Thanks for any help as I've been bogged down with a bunch of newbie issues. So close yet so far as always.

[Busstom]

[CarlosZ]

I may have my sounds confused. Sounds more like a tap in the heads, not a deep knock within the case. I adjusted the valves to .006. They were all about .007-.008.

The engine fire up immediately and idles, but smells really rich.

I disconnected one at a time and no difference in the 3/4 side but started to die when 1/2 were pulled.

I annealed again and reinstalled the exhaust. Same noise. I don't think its exhaust, sounds like valves.

I checked the fuel, air and idle jets on the 3/4 side, nothing clogged. Should I blast the carb with cleaner?

I can see a spark on the ends of the plug wires. Does that mean it's not the ignition? I've no regulator but will check the fuel for flow again and will adjust the valve again tomorrow morning.

Thanks again for all the support.

[williamM]

have you tried the economy carb over haul--where you rev it up to 3000 and cover the intake with your hand to force a big vacuum thru the carb-- I've cleaned many that way.
_________________
some days I get up and just sit and think. Some days I just sit.

opinion untempered by fact is ignorance.

Don't step in any!

[CarlosZ]

I'm going to adjust the valves again and will try the econo carb method, I'll try anything at this point. Maybe I'll visit my local shaman or ask Joe Boo for some insight.

I'm going to check the intake manifold to head for any vacuum leaks. The builder said some type of air leak, vacuum or exhaust. The mechanic next to him said exhaust. I've reinstalled the entire exhaust and no improvement.

Will try spraying some gas into the 3/4 side carb and will see if switching around the plugs and wires make any difference. Will also feel for heat on the 3/4 manifold.

Do you think my petronix is possibly bad? I had an issue where I tried using a remote starter that got the ground cable real hot and fried the battery. Not sure what it was but the wire from the coil to distributor was not connected all the way when it happened. It melted the rubber on the jumper cables. Connecting the wire remedied the hot wire problem.

The last thing I want is to tow it to a mechanic, but I'm running out of options. I'll give it another go. Thanks again. Any advice will keep a sliver of hope alive.

[cliveawn]

[Busstom]

Carlos, on page 6, when your problems started, you said you felt a shudder and heard a ticking noise. So before this, would you say the engine was running wonderfully, hitting smoothly on all cylinders, and idling nicely?

Is it idling the same now, or idling differently? I ask because it doesn't make sense to me that your oil spewing situation would affect cylinders 3 and 4 like this...at least internally.

The bottom line is, there's a logical explanation for this condition, you just haven't figured it out yet. So I'd discourage the tow truck just yet, unless you're ready to throw in the towel. Also, I doubt it's your Pertronix, else the whole engine would be affected.

All of your cylinders need three things to fire: fuel, spark, and compression...that's why I suggested a compression tester earlier. A compression tester is cheaper than a tow, and if you do a compression test and find good compression, then you've eliminated one BIG component from the picture.

Swap spark plugs 1 & 2 with 3 & 4, 'cuz it seems like you're confident that cylinders 1 and 2 are working fine. There are other ways to chase your spark all the way to the plugs, but with your Pertronix, you should be careful about leaving the ignition on, so for now I'd just recommend swapping plugs. But bottom line, you need to check for spark all the way to the plugs, one way or another, not just the ends of the wires.

If you find that you have sparks going to 3 and 4, and you've (hopefully) done a compression test with good results, then that leaves fuel delivery. If there was an intake leak, you'd probably have a high idle, and I'm pretty sure you'd notice stumbling when #3 or #4 plug wires were disconnected.

You've come this far, I think you can find the problem, or at least isolate it. Good luck!

[CarlosZ]

The engine sounded smooth during the cam break-in. Drove it the 1 mile and heard change of sound right before I noticed the oil all over the road. Not sure what kind of sound as it was enough to make me pull over. I couldn't tell you if it was running on all cylinders during the cam break-in. I'm assuming it was as it sounded smooth. I could be wrong as I've only heard a type 4 engine over the internet prior to purchasing mine. Sounded better and stronger than the original engine though. The engine fires up immediately w/o hesitation.

The engine sounds strong, but a bit rougher than first startup. The carbs haven't been sync'ed so they may be playing a part in the rough sound. There is a definite tick in the 1/2 side, like a sewing machine. Maybe its the Web73 ticking? I think the tick came after the oil debacle. The only thing is that there is a slight rattle when revved and allowed to come back to idle. Sounds like something is loose. Maybe its the rocker spacer the builder used instead of the springs?

What I did this weekend.
1-Adjusted the valves - All at .006 except #3 intake which was at around .010

2-Re-annuled the copper gaskets and re-installed the exhaust. New gaskets on the rest of the exhaust except for the last one to the muffler. Filed the manifolds. The muffler has a 1" crack where the intake pipe meets the muffler and is contributing to the exhaust smell. (Will take to a muffler shop this week to see if repairable). Exhaust was loose, but can hear an exhaust leak now whereas I didn't hear it before.

3- Set the timing. Sounds easy, but I don't think I did it correctly. Is there a go-to source or thread on how to time the type-4? Youtube has some failures and of no help.

4-tightened down the intake manifolds as tight as possible.

5-checked all the jets and sprayed the carb with cleaner.

I was told that the exhaust manifolds would evaporate water if they were firing. All get super hot and vaporize the H2O. Does that mean they are getting some spark? I attempted to switch the plug wires, but couldn't as they're different lengths.

Will disconnecting the fuel line to the carb w/o running the engine help with verifying fuel flow?

I'll switch the plugs and see if maybe they're fouled. Or can I install the old ones (that came out of the original engine)? They're NGK and I currently have Bosch.

I'll also look into getting a compression tester and perhaps a fuel regulator. I'll keep you posted as to the results of the plug swap. Thanks again.

[KentABQ]

Were you successful at getting it up-n-running again?
Will I be seeing you bombing down the PCH anytime soon?
_________________
-Kent-
1976 Riviera, 1.8l FI chrome yellow VAN - "Chloe"

"I must say, how can you be in a bad mood driving this vehicle full of vibrant color.
Cars of today are so bland in comparison. It's like driving a celebration!" ---WildIdea

Bus ownership via emoticons:
---williamM

[CarlosZ]

The tick is still there, comes and goes at will. I've been told it's in the valves and could be a leak at the manifold that's causing the tick.

I've taken the bus on plenty of trips here and there. Furthest was 100 miles away and pulled like a champ. I even took it to the el Prado VW camp out in Chino.

I've purchased a Holley regulator and new adjustment screws. Tick subsided or smoothened out a bit with the new adjusters. Haven't bought a compression tester yet. I've even removed the lifters on the 1/2 side. The lifters and cam showed no damage. Haven't done the 3/4 side yet. Still need to work on dialing in the carbs as I'm only getting about 15mpg. The web73 cam doesn't help with mpg as I'm on it quite a bit.

I'm at the point where I'm going to run her til she don't run no more or pull the engine and check the exhaust fitting and tins to manifold for leaks. It's just been driving so well that I'm leaning towards leaving it and dealing with it at a later date.

Planning a trip to havasu next weekend. Going to finally install the Dakota cht I've had sitting and check the 3/4 lifters. Other than that and a new exhaust, I'm at the end of what I can mechanically do myself. I'm somewhat confident it'll make it. If not, I'll finally have the closure my engine and I are due for. Hope to see some of you on PCH and thanks for all the advice. I'll try to keep it less-long winded and have some compression numbers soon.

[udidwht]

[udidwht]

[CarlosZ]

[williamM]

wow - glad to hear it's working- You going to BBB in Havasu this year? Great bunch show up there- raffels ect- then there is "silly als" Pizza going thru Quartzsite-
_________________
some days I get up and just sit and think. Some days I just sit.

opinion untempered by fact is ignorance.

Don't step in any!