| Author |
Message |
scrivyscriv
Samba Electrician
Joined: October 04, 2011
Posts: 2922
Location: Memphis
|
 Posted: Fri Oct 20, 2017 8:10 pm Post subject: Is my engine missing anything - with pics |
 |
|
Hey y'all,
I'm working on getting a '65 beetle home, and wanted to get a little homework done on the engine. My experience is limited to a couple years of driving an almost all stock 1971 bus with a 1641 dual port, and a few months working on a cobbled-together 68 bug.
Here are two photos from the current '65 beetle owner... I'm trying to see if anything stock is missing or incorrect for a '65. I understand that year may have come with stale air - ? Obviously we don't know the displacement just from looking at it, that's not an issue; just looking to gather up any needed parts.
Did single port engines get heat riser insulation/tins?
Pointers and concerns welcome.
_________________
Robert in Memphis
Dünkelgrügen 1967 Java Green bug thread
Engine rebuild thread
If you're ever in the Memphis area, you are welcome to stop by for advice and help. |
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
tasb
The Distributor Distributor
Joined: April 27, 2002
Posts: 6371
Location: Pentwater, Michigan
|
| Posted: Fri Oct 20, 2017 8:32 pm Post subject: Re: Is my engine missing anything - with pics |
|
|
Correct:
generator
regulator
fuel pump and anti siphon valve
Incorrect:
distributor - should be a ZV/JCU 4 R 3 or 111 905 205 M or N. like:
It also looks like you may have a 28 PICT 1 carbuyretor and orobably should have a 28 PICT 2?
_________________
Roads Scholar &
1957 Kombi low mileage 36 hp governor equipped M 178 Slow Drag Winner 2014, 2015, 2018
1965 hardtop Deluxe Microbus owned since 1990 M 620 factory 12 v 1500cc
1961 (October)Single Cab- Road Trip Workhorse |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
glutamodo 
The Android
Joined: July 13, 2004
Posts: 26311
Location: Douglas, WY
|
| Posted: Sat Oct 21, 2017 2:28 am Post subject: Re: Is my engine missing anything - with pics |
|
|
Tim, I think you meant ZV/JU 4R3. (JCU was a type 3 unit)
This engine could also use a muffler installation kit. (no clamps on the bottom pipes)
28PICT-1 is correct for 1965. 28PICT-2 wasn't introduced until the throttle pedal/cable changed halfway into model year 1966, and that was for non-USA models.
Usually "single port" refers to the 1300-1500-1600 engines with the larger, angled intake ports. 1200s were always with the smaller, right angle, smaller intake ports. And yes, fresh air models did have a rear engine cover plate that had the smaller cover plates and seals over/around the preheat (heat riser) pipes. Here's the list of engine tin changes that happened when fresh air was introduced during model year 1963, 1965 should not be much different.
Below is an factory image of a 1964 engine, early 1965 looked like this as well. Mentioned above was the "anti-siphon valve" (a term I don't use because I never saw it called that in any VW publications, where it was just a valve or check valve) and that is the main difference, it was introduced during the 2nd month of 1965 production.
_________________
Andy T.
IMAGE NOTE: It has been noted that Chrome based browsers may have issues in displaying my vast image library, which use non-secure links and are on an FTP server. Images should still be viewable if the link is clicked though.
I do not know how to fix this. All I can say is it all works fine for me with what I use, Firefox. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
rcroane
Samba Member
Joined: January 03, 2013
Posts: 2000
Location: Springfield, Virginia
|
| Posted: Sat Oct 21, 2017 3:50 am Post subject: Re: Is my engine missing anything - with pics |
|
|
Here's a picture of my '65 engine (original to the car). Probably not 100% correct, but close (the vacuum pipe from the distributor to the carb is not correct for this year, but has since been corrected). Let me know if you need pics of anything else for comparison.
_________________
'65 Sunroof Bug |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
heimlich
VWNOS.com
Joined: November 20, 2016
Posts: 6594
Location: Houston, Texas
|
| Posted: Sat Oct 21, 2017 10:42 am Post subject: Re: Is my engine missing anything - with pics |
|
|
rcroane,
That's a good looking engine. Did you custom make the metal lines?
_________________
www.vwnos.com [email protected]
Classic Brands. Classic Quality.
Not all parts are made the same. NOS OE/OEM parts made mainly in West Germany, Early Germany, and Early Brazil are where VW produced the best quality parts and best fitting products.
5% Off your order with coupon code: 5%OFF
Restored Distributors Available (<--Click here) |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
rcroane
Samba Member
Joined: January 03, 2013
Posts: 2000
Location: Springfield, Virginia
|
| Posted: Sat Oct 21, 2017 10:50 am Post subject: Re: Is my engine missing anything - with pics |
|
|
Thanks. Fuel lines are from WW. @tasb is a good source for vacuum line.
_________________
'65 Sunroof Bug |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Eric&Barb
Samba Member
Joined: September 19, 2004
Posts: 24733
Location: Olympia Wash Rinse & Repeat
|
| Posted: Sat Oct 21, 2017 7:00 pm Post subject: Re: Is my engine missing anything - with pics |
|
|
Last of stock N. American imports with stale air was mid DEC62.
_________________
In Stereo, Where Available! |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
scrivyscriv
Samba Electrician
Joined: October 04, 2011
Posts: 2922
Location: Memphis
|
| Posted: Sat Oct 21, 2017 7:31 pm Post subject: Re: Is my engine missing anything - with pics |
|
|
Thank y'all for all the info so far. I really appreciate it! The right vac advance distributor is high up on my list to take care of right away... it always seems like the market is saturated when I don't need a certain part; but when I start looking for it, there are none to be found!
Is the oil bath cleaner stock for '65? Did it get the red label on the back?
I've heard of a solid state 6v regulator, can someone point me in the right direction to buy one?
Lastly, a little off topic and probably a 'polarizing' discussion, but should I worry about having a 6V system in case I ever need to get my battery jumped off? I like the year-correct generator/regulator, but in my experience with charging, I prefer to have an alternator for function and extra load (will be adding A/C).
_________________
Robert in Memphis
Dünkelgrügen 1967 Java Green bug thread
Engine rebuild thread
If you're ever in the Memphis area, you are welcome to stop by for advice and help. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Eric&Barb
Samba Member
Joined: September 19, 2004
Posts: 24733
Location: Olympia Wash Rinse & Repeat
|
| Posted: Sat Oct 21, 2017 8:35 pm Post subject: Re: Is my engine missing anything - with pics |
|
|
| scrivyscriv wrote: |
| , I prefer to have an alternator for function and extra load (will be adding A/C). |
AC for a ACVW will not require higher power output of the generator. Instead it will use an extra crankshaft pulley to run a mechanical compressor.
Any system that would need that would be a hybrid setup and require a huge battery bank.
_________________
In Stereo, Where Available! |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
bluebus86
Banned
Joined: September 02, 2010
Posts: 11075
|
| Posted: Sat Oct 21, 2017 8:49 pm Post subject: Re: Is my engine missing anything - with pics |
|
|
| Eric&Barb wrote: |
| scrivyscriv wrote: |
| , I prefer to have an alternator for function and extra load (will be adding A/C). |
AC for a ACVW will not require higher power output of the generator. Instead it will use an extra crankshaft pulley to run a mechanical compressor.
Any system that would need that would be a hybrid setup and require a huge battery bank. |
there is an extra electric load with AC. the fans on both the hot and cold coils, and some for the electric clutch on the compressor. my 65 Bug has AC and it worked just fine with the stock 6 volt generator however. I never measure the current consumption however. and the AC was not used at night with highbeams on in the rain running the wipers. It may have been ok, I did use the AC with the headlights on, and experienced no problems. Check out the amperage of the ac components and sum it together, then add up the draw of the lights, wipers, radio, ignition to see how much margin your generator has.
_________________
Help Prevent VW Engine Fires, see this link.....Engine safety wire information
Stop introducing dirt into your oil when adjusting valves ... https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=683022 |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
OLD VW NUT
Samba Member
Joined: February 23, 2011
Posts: 2776
Location: High Desert of Washington 98823
|
| Posted: Sat Oct 21, 2017 9:07 pm Post subject: Re: Is my engine missing anything - with pics |
|
|
| Eric&Barb wrote: |
| scrivyscriv wrote: |
| , I prefer to have an alternator for function and extra load (will be adding A/C). |
AC for a ACVW will not require higher power output of the generator. Instead it will use an extra crankshaft pulley to run a mechanical compressor.
Any system that would need that would be a hybrid setup and require a huge battery bank. |
I have AC on my Ghia - works very well. I installed a Bosch 55 amp alternator during my engine build. Under the car there are two large fans that push air through the heat exchanger and are always on whenever the AC is on. There is a smaller squirrel cage fan for moving the air over the cooling coils in the under dash air handling. I have no idea what the amp draw is with those three fans but I suspect the 35 amp generator might be worked a bit too hard - especially on longer trips if the AC is on. Shorter drives may not be a problem. I wouldn't trust an old generator when alternators are so cheap.
_________________
71 Ghia Coupe - stock body - no rust! Powered by a 2110 W/Dual HPMX 44's - Rancho Pro Street Transaxle - A/C by Gilmore
Other car - 2013 VW Golf TDI |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
rcroane
Samba Member
Joined: January 03, 2013
Posts: 2000
Location: Springfield, Virginia
|
| Posted: Sun Oct 22, 2017 5:24 am Post subject: Re: Is my engine missing anything - with pics |
|
|
| Quote: |
Is the oil bath cleaner stock for '65? Did it get the red label on the back?
|
The oil bath cleaner in my photo is original to the engine so you can see the placement of the label. Mine is a Mann (P/N 113129613C).
| Quote: |
The right vac advance distributor is high up on my list to take care of right away... it always seems like the market is saturated when I don't need a certain part; but when I start looking for it, there are none to be found!
|
I sourced my distributor from @tasb. I'm sure he can set you up.
_________________
'65 Sunroof Bug |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
scrivyscriv
Samba Electrician
Joined: October 04, 2011
Posts: 2922
Location: Memphis
|
| Posted: Sat Dec 02, 2017 8:17 pm Post subject: Re: Is my engine missing anything - with pics |
|
|
Here's a little more to look at, because photos are always nice!!
I trailered the pan and interior home tonight. It will be at least another month before I'm ready to load up the body and rest of the parts, which is ok with me because several birthdays and Christmas are all happening this month.
The pan just needs a good clean up, new brake hoses, new tires, and I'll plan on a dual circuit master brake cylinder. Other than that, it's completely rust free and very well done.
The entire body shell has been metalworked, primed, and painted in a single stage Dupont, followed by a fairly extensive color sanding. It is very straight, with minimal bodywork and rust.
_________________
Robert in Memphis
Dünkelgrügen 1967 Java Green bug thread
Engine rebuild thread
If you're ever in the Memphis area, you are welcome to stop by for advice and help. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
flyboy161
Samba Member
Joined: December 26, 2009
Posts: 2091
Location: Perry, GA
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
flyboy161
Samba Member
Joined: December 26, 2009
Posts: 2091
Location: Perry, GA
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
bluebus86
Banned
Joined: September 02, 2010
Posts: 11075
|
| Posted: Sun Dec 03, 2017 10:06 am Post subject: Re: Is my engine missing anything - with pics |
|
|
| scrivyscriv wrote: |
Thank y'all for all the info so far. I really appreciate it! The right vac advance distributor is high up on my list to take care of right away... it always seems like the market is saturated when I don't need a certain part; but when I start looking for it, there are none to be found!
Is the oil bath cleaner stock for '65? Did it get the red label on the back?
I've heard of a solid state 6v regulator, can someone point me in the right direction to buy one?
Lastly, a little off topic and probably a 'polarizing' discussion, but should I worry about having a 6V system in case I ever need to get my battery jumped off? I like the year-correct generator/regulator, but in my experience with charging, I prefer to have an alternator for function and extra load (will be adding A/C). |
it is safe to jump a six volt car with 12 volts. the six volt battery acts as a load that reduces the voltage to six. of course dont leave the 12 volt battery hooked up for long, just for the jump, else it will try to overcharge the six volt battery. but I habe done this numerous times over the last 40 years, no worries, not even a burned out dome light when jumping 12 to a 6 volt car. Now crank away!
the stock six volt system with generator worked fine for an AC unit in my 65. this was a dealer installed ac unit. the load was not too great, a dash fan and hot coil fan were added to the load, and the compressor clutch, thats it, the old stock 6 volt generator had no problems running the extra ac load, so you should be just fine running the stock system with an ac. try to find a vintage under dash ac unit, that would be way cooler (looking) than a modern aftermarket unit.
See this link...
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=152998
good luck, stay cool!
_________________
Help Prevent VW Engine Fires, see this link.....Engine safety wire information
Stop introducing dirt into your oil when adjusting valves ... https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=683022 |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
KTPhil
Samba Member
Joined: April 06, 2006
Posts: 34003
Location: Conejo Valley, CA
|
| Posted: Sun Dec 03, 2017 11:58 am Post subject: Re: Is my engine missing anything - with pics |
|
|
| Yes, I used to jump my 6V '65 with a 12V battery/car. All accessories should be turned off (esp. the radio), and I kept the cable ready to be pulled off the moment it started. Leave it connected for too long, and you will have trouble... the choke may burn out, and of course likely also the dash lights. I never had any trouble because I was quick to pull it off. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
scrivyscriv
Samba Electrician
Joined: October 04, 2011
Posts: 2922
Location: Memphis
|
| Posted: Wed Mar 07, 2018 10:17 am Post subject: Re: Is my engine missing anything - with pics |
|
|
After a few months of cold and rainy weather, I've got the pan stored inside the garage now! I have a small stash of spare parts and it looks like at least some of them will come in handy to get started before the big parts orders.
Overall it's a great pan with some very decent work put in to it. The left pan half has been replaced with an aftermarket 21ga pan, compared to the roughly 19ga right half that appears to be OG front to back.
Transmission is a zero-mile rebuild, worked over by Tom Taylor locally. The previous owner rebuilt the king pins and replaced most of the brakes. Because so much time has passed with the pan sitting out in the open, I will need to redo a substantial amount more than I had anticipated. Not a huge deal though because the metal is all solid and all the parts are here. The biggest bummer for me is that battery corner, because it's all good OG metal on that pan half except for one rust-through spot where the heater cable tube meets the pan.
It's still really early in the process to decide, but I'm leaning towards replacing the left pan with a Wolfsburg West half, welding in a quarter battery pan, and stripping the whole pan back down for a pro sandblast and powdercoat. I know there are a lot of opinions on powdercoating the pan versus other coatings like paint, POR, or Chassis Saver.. it will come down to how much of a time savings it will be to have a shop do the heavy lifting for the price.
Photo dump:
_________________
Robert in Memphis
Dünkelgrügen 1967 Java Green bug thread
Engine rebuild thread
If you're ever in the Memphis area, you are welcome to stop by for advice and help. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
swharris
Samba Member
Joined: September 10, 2010
Posts: 496
Location: N. Orange County
|
| Posted: Wed Mar 07, 2018 7:41 pm Post subject: Re: Is my engine missing anything - with pics |
|
|
| tasb wrote: |
Correct:
generator
regulator
fuel pump and anti siphon valve
? |
Anti-siphon?? Tell me more. Never seen one of these, but I've not dealt with 1200s. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
pilottangocharlie
Samba Member
Joined: February 24, 2017
Posts: 83
Location: Newcastle, OK
|
| Posted: Wed Mar 07, 2018 7:49 pm Post subject: Re: Is my engine missing anything - with pics |
|
|
Great looking project! I'll be keeping tuned in to follow along. Please continue to share.
_________________
Tyler |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
