Cam and head advice for new 1956cc

[veltror]

I am finally getting round to building my new motor for my 1975 Karmann Beetle. In the past i have built many stock TYpe 1 and Type 4 engines but this is my first foray into a perfromance type 1. I would appreciate some advice for Cam, rockers and heads for this motor.

This is what I am starting with I already have these parts

AS21 case checked and bored for 90.5
Case full flowed
CB 76mm crank with lightened and balanced Flywheel
90.5 Stroker pistons
CB 5.5" Super race rods
Dual Dellorto 40's (Italy)
1-2-3 Ignition

I am aiming for a CR of 8.5 or thereabouts unless otherwise advised.


I would like some options on cam, rockers lifters and heads.

My current thoughts for heads are

1672 Panchito 044™ (40 x 35.5) (61cc chambers)


Any suggestions welcome I am based int the UK.


V

[pondervwmike]

Sounds sweet! I am building my first stroker as well. An 80mm x 92mm TW 2127cc. I am going with the Panchitos heads. Nearly everyone on here will recommend them. Great flow numbers and airspeed.
As for camshaft. I am no expert but I am using an Engle w-125 grind for mine along with 1.25 ratio rockers. I may end up using a cb 2242 or 2246. It all depends on what you want the motor to do and how you want to use the car. Will this be a daily driver or a weekend toy?
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1967 Cal Look Beetle Street Car in re-restoration,customization. Mom and Dad bought it in 1983 when I was 4.
2010 VW Tiguan
2000 BMW 528i
1997 Jeep Cherokee
2127cc build thread https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=681556&highlight=

[Dan Ruddock]

86a webcam with CB 1.4 rockers. Done

[Floating VW]

Mind if I ask what you have in mind for this motor? Stump puller that will live forever? Well-behaved but with some pepper when you need it? Still driveable on the street but will be used mostly on the track? Anything less than 5000 RPM is for grandma?

As far as compression ratio, I would suggest keeping the dynamic ratio between 7.5 - 8.0:1, and setting the static ratio wherever it needs to be to achieve that, depending on what components you finally decide to go with.
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"It's time you started treating people as individuals, rather than mathematically predictable members of an aggregate set, regardless of how well that works."

[veltror]

It will be used on the street for fun and the odd Euorpean jaunt so does not have to be a screamer. Thnaks for the suggestions so far.

[fivelugshortaxle]

[Alstrup]

Similar engine, with a CSP super comp muffler (Its definitely the limit for that system) A variant of the Web 110, but you can almost copy it with adding 1,25 rockers to it.
Ohh, and 9,8-1 CR on Vpower.
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/gallery/pix/1205306.jpg

Sell the 123 unless its the USB, and get something decent for the engine so you can make POWER

[Danwvw]

Some cams wear out the valve train more than others. For example a with a cam designed for stock ratio rockers 1.1:1 if it has a lot of lift will ware out the valve train more than one that has as much lift at the valve but uses ratio rockers.
That being said though if you don't go over about .420" valve lift with out ratio rockers the cams that do that are fine. I like the Webcam series. 163, 118, and others. If you run larger valve heads like the CB "Panchitos" you can gain plenty of performance from 1.1:1 ratio rockers without so much lift.

For driveability always compare engine torque curves not horsepower curves.
For example a engine that produces 110 HprsePower may be more drivable than one that makes 150 HorsePower.

How hot the engine gets and whether or not it will need premium fuel is also a consideration. For example a cam like the CB-2241 Would be a good cam for torque because the (duration at .050" of valve lift) is below what for example a Webcam 163 has. The 163 can handle more engine compression ratio without overheating though and will produce more horsepower but in my engine the 163 doesn't have much torque below 2200 RPM. If you're like me you value being able to drive your vw gently too. A good compromise might be the Webcam 118 with its 245's Duration and lower lift it would play nicely with the larger 40X35mm valve sizes (Panchito's) and your small bore. Remember your bore is not big so you will loose bottom end if you have too big of valves. So if you want driveability and torque stick with stock valve size heads. One reason the Panchitos are so well received is they have (small port volume) near but above that of stock heads. (Small Port Volume = High Port Velocity = Torque)!
I built an engine with the webcam 118 and 1.25:1 ratio rockers which has it's stock valve size valves lifting up around .450" and it's very responsive. Much better than what you would see with a W-100 like cam. I have not tried the Webcam 86a But it has way more lift than you will need with "Panchito's" for your small bore engine.

What venturi size do you have in those 40mm Dells?
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1960 Beetle And 1679cc DP W-100 & Dual Zeniths!

[Floating VW]

I agree, the 86a will be a little more than you need. I would say something like the Web 118 or FK 41 would be enough to put a smile on your face. Or for a little more scream, maybe the Web 163 or FK 42. Actually, the FK 7 is pretty close to the FK 41, but I can't remember if it's the 40 series that makes more power but is harsher on the valve train, or is it vice-versa?

I hesitate to post this link, because I've posted it before and I don't want people to think I'm a windy gasbag who likes to honk his own horn, but the example used in the text is exactly a 1956cc engine, so if you find it useful then you're welcome to it:
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=678699&highlight=

Good luck, man.
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"It's time you started treating people as individuals, rather than mathematically predictable members of an aggregate set, regardless of how well that works."

[74 Thing]

Web 163 or 218 if not going ratio rockers

[veltror]

Web cams instead of Engle it seems, what about any of the CB cams. Not sure where I can get a web cam in the uik... Not sure what venturis I have but any recommendations?

[UK Luke 72]

Message Alstrup, he's in Denmark but don't let that put you off. Or you can try Paul at VW speedshop and Richie at RJ Volksperformance... They carry a couple of the popular grinds but I wouldn't hold your breath.
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2276 Beetle build https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=670744&highlight=2276+beetle+daily
2276 EFI Conversion https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=689172

[veltror]

Thabnks for all the info, DAnvw not sure what venturis i have but I think I have a couple of other ones. I like the idea of torque so the Webcam 163 with the panchitos sounds like a good plan

[[email protected]]

FK65 is another option, but not many folks even know it exists. Which also means most stores won't stock it; we do, along with other popular grinds like the Web Cam 163 and 218. We ship to Europe every day too.
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[Alstrup]

Yeah, but in this case I would advocate the 163. Its a very good all round cam that also makes good upper end power.
The 218 is a nice cam too. I Use it much for medium displacement busses. However, over the years I finally figured out how to port the heads to make really good power with it on smaller engines too. Took me a while
I never cared much for the 86a. Most of my experience with it is in type 4 engines though, so there may be a little difference there. The 163 is better IMHO and does what I want it to.

T

[jwillard]

[veltror]

Well I have made some progress, went with the Webcam 163 and CB1.25 rockers, thanks to John at Aircooled.net.

I have now put the engine togetherand it turns nice and easy no tight spots, I am now trying to decide if to set end-play now or when the heads etc are on as it might be easier tighten the gland nut then. If I tighten iut as much as I can withou the use of a huge braker bar without any shims I am seeing 0.039, the original shims were 30 but that is irrelevant as it now has a stroker. Is this within reason with no shims or should I start looking at something.

R

[chrisflstf]

Put 2 shims in and remeasure. That will tell you what the third should be

[Vanillagurilla]

Need to match your compression to the cam, 8:1 will be fine with some cams and low octane pump gas but will require race fuel with others. Cams with less duration require less compression. I'm running 8:1 with a w110 right now and will be going to a w125 at 10:1 both with 91 octane pump gas BUT my car is a baja that does most of its driving in the desert and doesn't need to be very streetable.

[Howard 111]

John, I run the FK-65, but with a turbo. Even so, it has great throttle response for around town driving without being on boost.
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1973 Karmann Ghia
Turbocharged, Fuel Injected
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=531270