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i_luv_my_bus76 Samba Member
Joined: May 18, 2012 Posts: 371 Location: High Desert
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Posted: Mon Oct 16, 2017 7:49 am Post subject: Re: Engine idles for 15 secs at most |
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I narrowed everything down to plugged heat risers...after the carb rebuild and a valve adjustment it would run for a minute then the intake manifold would ice up and my bug would shut off ... in the process of cleaning out the heat risers I uncovered a bunch of rust pinholes... I bought a new intake manifold, now the I can't get the motor to start it just cranks ... I am thinking maybe my plugs are fouled, it was too late last night when I finally got a chance to work on my bug so I will check my plugs tonight when I get home... |
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i_luv_my_bus76 Samba Member
Joined: May 18, 2012 Posts: 371 Location: High Desert
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Posted: Tue Oct 17, 2017 4:16 am Post subject: Re: Engine idles for 15 secs at most |
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So...
Plugs were not fouled. Swapped my petronix flame thrower distributor with a bosch 009 with points...still nothing
Check carb for fuel...good amount of fuel, full bowl
Checked fuel flow to carb...seemed a little restricted but the carb was full, will investigate next hair pulling session along with swapping out the fuel filter
I probably should have checked for spark but I was super frustrated, disappointed, and exhausted from work... hopefully tonight I can steal an hour or 2 to do some more troubleshooting |
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bobinphx Samba Member
Joined: August 14, 2016 Posts: 165
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Posted: Tue Oct 17, 2017 8:44 pm Post subject: Re: Engine idles for 15 secs at most |
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where to start..
Is this a single port motor? if so, did you change the crush gaskets at the intake head interface? Make sure you dont have two in there like mine did!. Ddi you make sure the intake is on straight at the head. both of these can cause a massive air leak and keep the motor from running.
as to the idle. The 30 pict-2 has a very tiny little "non-user" adjustable needle valve on the other side of the carb. It may be covered by a plug. If this is plugged (and I am guessing it is, given the picture of your fuel bowl), you will need to remove this needle valve and clean the passage. Be very careful as the needle valve is most likely stuck and the screw driver slot is tiny and fairly weak. watch that you dont strip the slot.
also check to be sure you air fuel solenoid is working (or replace it with the proper brass jet.
hope this helps. |
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ashman40 Samba Member
Joined: February 16, 2007 Posts: 15975 Location: North Florida, USA
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Posted: Wed Oct 18, 2017 6:31 am Post subject: Re: Engine idles for 15 secs at most |
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If your fuel bowl is full of fuel it is not a problem with the fuel system up to the carb. The engine should idle off just the fuel in the carb bowl for a few min. When it dies open the carb top and check if the bowl is empty. If it is a fuel problem and only idles for 15-30sec it is likely a problem inside the carb. Unless you are pouring fuel into the carb/intake just to get it started.
Here is Speedy Jim's troubleshooting steps. Since your engine no longer runs you should follow the process and figure out why.
http://www.speedyjim.net/htm/eng_strt.htm _________________ AshMan40
---------------------------
'67 Beetle #1 {project car that never made it to the road }
'75 Beetle 1200LS (RHD Japan model) {junked due to frame rot}
'67 Beetle #2 {2019 project car - Wish me luck!} |
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i_luv_my_bus76 Samba Member
Joined: May 18, 2012 Posts: 371 Location: High Desert
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Posted: Wed Oct 18, 2017 6:48 am Post subject: Re: Engine idles for 15 secs at most |
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bobinphx wrote: |
where to start..
Is this a single port motor? if so, did you change the crush gaskets at the intake head interface? Make sure you dont have two in there like mine did!. Ddi you make sure the intake is on straight at the head. both of these can cause a massive air leak and keep the motor from running.
as to the idle. The 30 pict-2 has a very tiny little "non-user" adjustable needle valve on the other side of the carb. It may be covered by a plug. If this is plugged (and I am guessing it is, given the picture of your fuel bowl), you will need to remove this needle valve and clean the passage. Be very careful as the needle valve is most likely stuck and the screw driver slot is tiny and fairly weak. watch that you dont strip the slot.
also check to be sure you air fuel solenoid is working (or replace it with the proper brass jet.
hope this helps. |
Thank you greatly for the tips... I do have a single port motor...the carb has been cleaned and was working until I swapped intake manifolds due to plugged heat risers making the manifold ice up...now the car won't start at all...i am thinking of pulling the motor again, one of my issues is the front nut driver side on the intake manifold I could get tight due to the curvature of the manifold, only a short socket fits with a extention. |
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i_luv_my_bus76 Samba Member
Joined: May 18, 2012 Posts: 371 Location: High Desert
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Posted: Wed Oct 18, 2017 6:53 am Post subject: Re: Engine idles for 15 secs at most |
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ashman40 wrote: |
If your fuel bowl is full of fuel it is not a problem with the fuel system up to the carb. The engine should idle off just the fuel in the carb bowl for a few min. When it dies open the carb top and check if the bowl is empty. If it is a fuel problem and only idles for 15-30sec it is likely a problem inside the carb. Unless you are pouring fuel into the carb/intake just to get it started.
Here is Speedy Jim's troubleshooting steps. Since your engine no longer runs you should follow the process and figure out why.
http://www.speedyjim.net/htm/eng_strt.htm |
I overhauled my fuel tank that is why I thought it could be fuel flow to the carb...i cleaned a nd rebuilt carb a few weeks ago, I was able to get the car to idle for about a minute and a half but the intake manifold would ice up and the car would die because the heat risers were plugged...i replaced the intake manifold and now it won't start, just cranks...
I have spark...fuel...and great compression
I'm lost |
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i_luv_my_bus76 Samba Member
Joined: May 18, 2012 Posts: 371 Location: High Desert
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Posted: Wed Oct 18, 2017 11:06 am Post subject: Re: Engine idles for 15 secs at most |
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I never give up but I have had this bug since April and still haven't been able to be drive it...I'm extremely frustrated
I have a bus and a fastback...neither have given close to this much trouble...
Venting done...will pull motor tonight and try to get her started tomorrow |
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ashman40 Samba Member
Joined: February 16, 2007 Posts: 15975 Location: North Florida, USA
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Posted: Wed Oct 18, 2017 3:17 pm Post subject: Re: Engine idles for 15 secs at most |
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i_luv_my_bus76 wrote: |
I have spark...fuel...and great compression
<...>
will pull motor tonight and try to get her started tomorrow |
Don't pull the motor just yet. You won't be able to crank the engine while it is out of the car (unless you have a starter mounted to a scrap bell housing).
If you know you have fuel, spark and compression then you are likely looking at an ignition problem.
Try the following:
Test the voltage at the ignition coil #15 (+) terminal with the ignition ON. You should read at least 12.5v (12.0v might be acceptable).
Next test the same voltage WHILE the engine is cranking. This will require a helper. It is common for the starter to pull so much current from the battery that the voltage that reaches the coil drops while the engine is cranking, but if the voltage drops below 11.0v the coil may stop firing. You don't see this while testing the spark manually since there is no load from the starter. If you have an electronic ignition (you mentioned flame thrower distributor) they stop working just below 12.0v making them even MORE sensitive to voltage drops.
You mentioned the coil. The stock mechanical points and many aftermarket electronic points require at least 3-4ohms of resistance in the coil primary windings. If you have an ohm meter, test the resistance between the #15 (+) and the #1 (-) terminals of the ignition coil (with all other wires disconnected). If you get a reading of less than 2.5ohms you have the wrong coil.
When you swapped out the distributor for a 009, did you adjust the dwell? Point gap set at max 0.016" or dwell of 47deg +/- 3deg is what you want.
Lastly, I would confirm you have the distributor cap wired correctly. Remove all four spark plug wires from your distributor cap. Read the instructions from Speedy Jim's site above. Look at the section marked "The test". It walks you thru finding which post on your distributor is the #1 plug wire using valve movement. Follow the steps exactly and your rotor will be pointing to the #1 position on the cap. Install the #1 plug wire over the rotor tip (even if you disagree) and install the remaining wires in the CW order of 1-4-3-2. Static time the ignition using a test lamp or voltmeter. Fire her up! _________________ AshMan40
---------------------------
'67 Beetle #1 {project car that never made it to the road }
'75 Beetle 1200LS (RHD Japan model) {junked due to frame rot}
'67 Beetle #2 {2019 project car - Wish me luck!} |
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i_luv_my_bus76 Samba Member
Joined: May 18, 2012 Posts: 371 Location: High Desert
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Posted: Wed Oct 18, 2017 3:49 pm Post subject: Re: Engine idles for 15 secs at most |
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ashman40 wrote: |
i_luv_my_bus76 wrote: |
I have spark...fuel...and great compression
<...>
will pull motor tonight and try to get her started tomorrow |
Don't pull the motor just yet. You won't be able to crank the engine while it is out of the car (unless you have a starter mounted to a scrap bell housing).
If you know you have fuel, spark and compression then you are likely looking at an ignition problem.
Try the following:
Test the voltage at the ignition coil #15 (+) terminal with the ignition ON. You should read at least 12.5v (12.0v might be acceptable).
Next test the same voltage WHILE the engine is cranking. This will require a helper. It is common for the starter to pull so much current from the battery that the voltage that reaches the coil drops while the engine is cranking, but if the voltage drops below 11.0v the coil may stop firing. You don't see this while testing the spark manually since there is no load from the starter. If you have an electronic ignition (you mentioned flame thrower distributor) they stop working just below 12.0v making them even MORE sensitive to voltage drops.
You mentioned the coil. The stock mechanical points and many aftermarket electronic points require at least 3-4ohms of resistance in the coil primary windings. If you have an ohm meter, test the resistance between the #15 (+) and the #1 (-) terminals of the ignition coil (with all other wires disconnected). If you get a reading of less than 2.5ohms you have the wrong coil.
When you swapped out the distributor for a 009, did you adjust the dwell? Point gap set at max 0.016" or dwell of 47deg +/- 3deg is what you want.
Lastly, I would confirm you have the distributor cap wired correctly. Remove all four spark plug wires from your distributor cap. Read the instructions from Speedy Jim's site above. Look at the section marked "The test". It walks you thru finding which post on your distributor is the #1 plug wire using valve movement. Follow the steps exactly and your rotor will be pointing to the #1 position on the cap. Install the #1 plug wire over the rotor tip (even if you disagree) and install the remaining wires in the CW order of 1-4-3-2. Static time the ignition using a test lamp or voltmeter. Fire her up! |
This is good stuff...
Tonight I will check voltage at the coil while cranking and not cranking...its a new coil and before I installed it I check the resistance so I'm sure that will be ok
I gapped the points and static timed the distributor
I will check the firing order later tonight
The battery might be an issue...it has been sitting for a few months
I appreciate the help Ashman40 I truly do... |
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wcfvw69 Samba Purist
Joined: June 10, 2004 Posts: 13382 Location: Arizona
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Posted: Wed Oct 18, 2017 4:37 pm Post subject: Re: Engine idles for 15 secs at most |
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I agree with Ash. What distributor are you using right now? How did you insure it's timed correctly and that the wires are on the right spots? You changing between at least two different distributors. Most often, the distributors number one spot is different on the distributor cap.
I'd put the engine on TDC with whatever distributor you're using. Where the rotor is pointing at TDC is #1. The firing order is 1-4-3-2 so put your plug wires in that order.
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Decades of VW and VW parts restoration experience.
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i_luv_my_bus76 Samba Member
Joined: May 18, 2012 Posts: 371 Location: High Desert
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Posted: Wed Oct 18, 2017 4:43 pm Post subject: Re: Engine idles for 15 secs at most |
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wcfvw69 wrote: |
I agree with Ash. What distributor are you using right now? How did you insure it's timed correctly and that the wires are on the right spots? You changing between at least two different distributors. Most often, the distributors number one spot is different on the distributor cap.
I'd put the engine on TDC with whatever distributor you're using. Where the rotor is pointing at TDC is #1. The firing order is 1-4-3-2 so put your plug wires in that order.
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They are both 009 distributors just one has a petronix flame thrower electronic ignition module and sticker slapped on the side... I have a few different distributors laying around from various vws |
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i_luv_my_bus76 Samba Member
Joined: May 18, 2012 Posts: 371 Location: High Desert
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Posted: Tue Oct 24, 2017 11:13 am Post subject: Re: Engine idles for 15 secs at most |
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So...im thinking the battery is no good... I connected a deep cycle battery to the battery that is in my bug...the motor started but died shortly after (seconds)... I'm guessing the deep cycle had little to no charge but enough juice and cranking amps to get her started and the bug battery won't hold a charge so I died...i am going to pull my battery and get it load tested and possibly buy a new battery and see if that fixes the issue |
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