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Tram
Samba Socialist
Joined: May 02, 2003
Posts: 22728
Location: Still Feelin' the Bern- Once you've felt it you can't un- feel it.
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 Posted: Tue Oct 31, 2017 10:09 am Post subject: Re: The Bi- Coastal Bi Polar Bus. |
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| Spike0180 wrote: |
You've tried two engines, multiple dizzy's, numerous carbs, different plug wires (with new engine I assume), coil (with new engine I assume), fuel supply would effect more than just fourth gear. And everything gives you the same result, good revving and power through every gear until 4th. If you're 100% confident with that, then I say the issue isn't in the engine. Move on to the trans, axles, check your brake adjustment, wheel bearing (just for kicks and giggles). Something is preventing this thing from going fast.
Potential issues (some previously stated):
-Transmission bodged while being built (aka something too tight)
-Transmission geared too high for engine
-Transmission geared too low (doesn't make sense but the math says otherwise)
-brakes adjusted wrong preventing high speed
-Excess drag in axles
-Excess drag in other rotating mass of driveline.
I think this is the list you should start attacking.
And just to make sure, you have checked this issue on numerous roads, wind conditions, weather conditions and all gave the same result? |
Yes, numerous roads and conditions. I'll add that the smallest of hills means a downshift to 3rd where it then seems to pull as it should.
I got everything ready for the swap yesterday and last night- donor stock trans is all squeaky clean and resealed. Bus is up on stands. I've already verified that all wheels spin fine. Bus has been aligned. Everything up underneath is new. Found a new defective shock that's likely our noise... bushing is stuffed already. Sigh. New KYB... 
I'll go through this checklist again then out she comes for a swap.
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wcfvw69 
Samba Purist
Joined: June 10, 2004
Posts: 13389
Location: Arizona
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| Posted: Tue Oct 31, 2017 12:25 pm Post subject: Re: The Bi- Coastal Bi Polar Bus. |
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| Tram wrote: |
Yes, numerous roads and conditions. I'll add that the smallest of hills means a downshift to 3rd where it then seems to pull as it should.
I got everything ready for the swap yesterday and last night- donor stock trans is all squeaky clean and resealed. Bus is up on stands. I've already verified that all wheels spin fine. Bus has been aligned. Everything up underneath is new. Found a new defective shock that's likely our noise... bushing is stuffed already. Sigh. New KYB...
I'll go through this checklist again then out she comes for a swap. |
We'll keep you in our thoughts and prayers Tram! 
_________________
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Follow me on instagram @sparxwerksllc
Decades of VW and VW parts restoration experience.
The Samba member since 2004.
**Now rebuilding throttle bodies for VW's and Porsche's**
**Restored German Bosch distributors for sale or I can restore yours**
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Tram
Samba Socialist
Joined: May 02, 2003
Posts: 22728
Location: Still Feelin' the Bern- Once you've felt it you can't un- feel it.
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| Posted: Wed Nov 01, 2017 12:47 am Post subject: Re: The Bi- Coastal Bi Polar Bus. |
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| wcfvw69 wrote: |
| Tram wrote: |
Yes, numerous roads and conditions. I'll add that the smallest of hills means a downshift to 3rd where it then seems to pull as it should.
I got everything ready for the swap yesterday and last night- donor stock trans is all squeaky clean and resealed. Bus is up on stands. I've already verified that all wheels spin fine. Bus has been aligned. Everything up underneath is new. Found a new defective shock that's likely our noise... bushing is stuffed already. Sigh. New KYB...
I'll go through this checklist again then out she comes for a swap. |
We'll keep you in our thoughts and prayers Tram! |
Yeah, I need it with this "but that can't be" Bus...
So- I went through Spike's list. Everything checked out. Wheels spin, no problems with axles, no seeming drag anywhere in the driveline.
Just for fun and because I love working on this Bus so much, I turned the engine over by hand in 3rd and 4th. 4th seemed about twice as hard.
So, I pulled the engine/ trans and swapped the trans. While I was at it, I pulled the plugs to examine them. All are a nice medium tan, with #3 being a shade lighter than the other 3 so I gave that intake nut another nudge just because.
In short... no real red flags.
I did happen to notice that the trans I removed was leaking out the input seal (wonder if THAT was the oil leak and not the engine?) and the trans I removed has a stamping on top just forward of the bell housing... a small capital P on top with a bigger capital R R S S underneath.
Does this mean anything to anybody? Remember- this *could* be a racing trans, freeway flyer, sandrail trans... "Regular Regular Small Small"? Fuck, WTF do I know?
I did notice that the "new" used trans is substantially easier for turning the engine by hand in 4th. Could preload on the old 4th just be too tight?
Tomorrow I get to go treasure hunting to find out what I boinked on the shift linkage. Even though the coupler was loose on the trans- square top set bolt was out and I could twist the coupler side to side on the trans, it wouldn't let go when I pulled out and yanked everything out from under the shifter up front. This led me to believe I had the trans free of the linkage as it should have been when I checked the shifter, but, ah... no. I wound up having to take the coupler apart. Then, after I got it all out I could spin the part of the coupler still on the trans by hand, but getting it off the hockey stick took a hammer and drift punch.
Have I mentioned I love this Bus?
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| Bryan67 wrote: |
| Just my hands. And a little lube. No tools. |
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Spike0180
Samba Member
Joined: June 06, 2015
Posts: 2269
Location: Detroit, Michigan
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| Posted: Wed Nov 01, 2017 7:06 am Post subject: Re: The Bi- Coastal Bi Polar Bus. |
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| Tram wrote: |
Could preload on the old 4th just be too tight?
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I think so.
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Brutis Patches Izabich: 1970 VW Transporter - 1776cc DP
Current State: Projects never truly end...
Location: Grosse Pointe, Michigan
Other cars: 2003 F150, 2003 Jetta GLI vr6-6sp
Sambastic: adj; the quality of being nit picky, elitist, expecting everyone to do things the way they believe is best with no regard to situation, "sambastic" |
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lil-jinx
Samba Member
Joined: August 14, 2013
Posts: 1109
Location: New Brunswick,Canada
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D/A/N
Samba Member
Joined: August 13, 2010
Posts: 2227
Location: 11222
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| Posted: Thu Nov 02, 2017 9:39 am Post subject: Re: The Bi- Coastal Bi Polar Bus. |
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| It’s too quiet. I’m suspicious..... |
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Tram
Samba Socialist
Joined: May 02, 2003
Posts: 22728
Location: Still Feelin' the Bern- Once you've felt it you can't un- feel it.
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| Posted: Thu Nov 02, 2017 11:05 am Post subject: Re: The Bi- Coastal Bi Polar Bus. |
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| D/A/N wrote: |
| It’s too quiet. I’m suspicious..... |
Oh, didn't you get the memo? I quit. 
No, it's all back together. I noticed some carbon tracings where the muffler and resonator join and where the TP tip fits the resonator so I yanked that apart while there and used some exhaust sealer epoxy of the type that I was finally able to get the heater box/ muffler joints completely sealed with, and the stuff takes 24 hours to cure. 24 hours is up around 1 PM my time, then down off the stands she comes and we shall see what hath Tram wrought.
In another "but that can't be!", I wound up having to take the whole shift linkage rod apart and the shifter out yet again because somehow the front shift rod pulled all the way off the front pin guide by the shifter and the peace pipe dropped off the shifter ball. Of course getting it to go back together the same way it so easily and smoothly came apart proved totally and physically impossible no matter what- it wouldn't even come close... are we surprised? It's "this bus!"
Checked valve adjustment... spot on. At this point I'd have been pleased to find anything obvious but everything checks out just perfectly. Clutch too- no glazing, no wear, no grease, no oil.
Here are some pics, including a side view, just so the group can see that this is no POS Bus.
Honestly- if the trans replace doesn't fix it... I got nuttin. I mean you couldn't ASK for a more perfect spark plug "reading", that engine is healthy and the mixture is right on the money. No drag anyplace... and the problem we were experiencing was only in high gear.
I'm still curious as to the stampings on top of the first trans- the black one pictured by itself. They must be some sort of a builder's code, I think.
Oops, I need to attach the breather hose to the air cleaner.
Someone asked upstream why it was hooked there and not to the snorkel... the answer is that this is the only vapor nipple that is on this air cleaner. Nothing anywhere else, and no sign there ever was one anywhere else.
Yes, oil in the air cleaner is clean and not over or under filled. Zero sign of oil going into the carb.
Hard to see in the pic but the inside of the first trans is very glossy with hypoid oil. That input seal is a gusher. I got a nice little pool of oil on my hydraulic table when I pulled the trans off the engine.
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| Bryan67 wrote: |
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Tram
Samba Socialist
Joined: May 02, 2003
Posts: 22728
Location: Still Feelin' the Bern- Once you've felt it you can't un- feel it.
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| Posted: Thu Nov 02, 2017 11:17 am Post subject: Re: The Bi- Coastal Bi Polar Bus. |
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| lil-jinx wrote: |
| If the preload was that tight,I would think that the transmission would be hot ,very hot. |
Ditto with the engine, right? And you'd think the plugs would be white with all the heat and struggle, right?
But... alas... no.
I do wonder if the input seal leak on the first trans was a sign of trouble other than just another new defective part.
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| Bryan67 wrote: |
| Just my hands. And a little lube. No tools. |
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Abscate
Samba Member
Joined: October 05, 2014
Posts: 22670
Location: NYC/Upstate/ROW
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| Posted: Thu Nov 02, 2017 2:49 pm Post subject: Re: The Bi- Coastal Bi Polar Bus. |
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IS the routing of the throttle positioner to altitude adjuster stock?
I don't remember that on my 70-71 Bays
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Stuartzickefoose
Samba Post Whore
Joined: February 07, 2008
Posts: 10350
Location: SoCal for now...
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| Posted: Thu Nov 02, 2017 3:29 pm Post subject: Re: The Bi- Coastal Bi Polar Bus. |
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its 2.5 hours after 1pm...where is the update???
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2011 Jetta Sportwagen TDi 6 speed manual
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Xevin
Samba Member
Joined: January 08, 2014
Posts: 7635
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| Posted: Thu Nov 02, 2017 3:36 pm Post subject: Re: The Bi- Coastal Bi Polar Bus. |
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Balls! , there's your problem right there. Looks like you got a little sumpin' rubbing on the wheel 
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Keep on Busin'
| 67rustavenger wrote: |
| GFY's Xevin and VW_Jimbo! |
| Clatter wrote: |
| Damn that Xevin... |
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I respect Xevin and he's a turd  |
| SGKent wrote: |
My God! Xevin and I 100% agree  |
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wcfvw69
Samba Purist
Joined: June 10, 2004
Posts: 13389
Location: Arizona
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| Posted: Thu Nov 02, 2017 3:44 pm Post subject: Re: The Bi- Coastal Bi Polar Bus. |
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| Abscate wrote: |
IS the routing of the throttle positioner to altitude adjuster stock?
I don't remember that on my 70-71 Bays |
Nope. Interesting hook up.
_________________
Contact me at [email protected]
Follow me on instagram @sparxwerksllc
Decades of VW and VW parts restoration experience.
The Samba member since 2004.
**Now rebuilding throttle bodies for VW's and Porsche's**
**Restored German Bosch distributors for sale or I can restore yours**
**Restored German Pierburg fuel pumps for sale or I can restore yours**
**Restored Porsche fuel pumps or I can restore yours**
**Restored Porsche distributors or I can restore yours** |
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Tram
Samba Socialist
Joined: May 02, 2003
Posts: 22728
Location: Still Feelin' the Bern- Once you've felt it you can't un- feel it.
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| Posted: Thu Nov 02, 2017 5:13 pm Post subject: Re: The Bi- Coastal Bi Polar Bus. |
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| wcfvw69 wrote: |
| Abscate wrote: |
IS the routing of the throttle positioner to altitude adjuster stock?
I don't remember that on my 70-71 Bays |
Nope. Interesting hook up. |
It's door lock vacuum line from my Mercedes stash. Tough stuff, and I like things overbuilt. It looked way more orderly this way to me rather than just a floppy hose.
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Немає виправдання для війни! Я з Україною.
| Bryan67 wrote: |
| Just my hands. And a little lube. No tools. |
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Tram
Samba Socialist
Joined: May 02, 2003
Posts: 22728
Location: Still Feelin' the Bern- Once you've felt it you can't un- feel it.
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| Posted: Thu Nov 02, 2017 5:29 pm Post subject: Re: The Bi- Coastal Bi Polar Bus. |
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| Stuartzickefoose wrote: |
| its 2.5 hours after 1pm...where is the update??? |
If it was up your tailpipe you'd know... unless you were texting at the time.
Oh, too soon?
But seriously...
Of course I had to spend a bunch of time dicking with the shifter and lockout adjustments right out of the gate. Then, as I started pulling out, the throttle cable let loose. Not the first time this has happened- seems you REALLY need to crank the nut down on this throttle cable.
I'm ambivalent but hopeful. Bus seems to roll and accelerate way more effortlessly. I drove it up the road to fill it with Premium and back here mainly because the Boss was gone shopping and it's just pouring down rain with wind. I'll borrow her cell to take along for insurance.
I need a day with less weather interference to get 'r' on the highway and up some hills. But we might be getting there. I was able to hit 55 without any struggle at about 1/2 throttle today. It didn't seem to be struggling at all like before. Due to the heavy rain, wind, and heavy traffic on my street here I didn't go for more.
Seems that this Bus responds better to a light touch on the throttle pedal. Tromp it and it runs OK but it's not happy and you can just tell she wants to throw the ol' :fist: code.
If I give her 1/4 to 1/2 pedal she gets right down and does her thing. Before it didn't matter WHAT I did in 4th... no go after 55, and getting that final 5 MPH between 50 and 55 was a real nail biter.
Ironically, engine seems hotter now. Not TOO hot. Driver's side heat riser very hot, passenger side is warm. Normal?
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| Bryan67 wrote: |
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busdaddy
Samba Member
Joined: February 12, 2004
Posts: 51156
Location: Surrey B.C. Canada, but thinking of Ukraine
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| Posted: Thu Nov 02, 2017 5:48 pm Post subject: Re: The Bi- Coastal Bi Polar Bus. |
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Sounds normal so far, one side should take off your fingerprints instantly, the other should take 10 seconds to.
Cant wait to hear the results of the test drive!!!
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D/A/N
Samba Member
Joined: August 13, 2010
Posts: 2227
Location: 11222
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| Posted: Thu Nov 02, 2017 6:05 pm Post subject: Re: The Bi- Coastal Bi Polar Bus. |
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| busdaddy wrote: |
Sounds normal so far, one side should take off your fingerprints instantly, the other should take 10 seconds to.
Cant wait to hear the results of the test drive!!! |
As one of the cursed owners of this bus, I can't wait either!!! Too bad about this:
| Tram wrote: |
| Due to the heavy rain, wind, and heavy traffic on my street here I didn't go for more. |
But I'm grateful, as many a VW has been destroyed by 2mph winds and some light rain!!!
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wcfvw69
Samba Purist
Joined: June 10, 2004
Posts: 13389
Location: Arizona
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| Posted: Thu Nov 02, 2017 6:12 pm Post subject: Re: The Bi- Coastal Bi Polar Bus. |
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| Tram wrote: |
| Stuartzickefoose wrote: |
| its 2.5 hours after 1pm...where is the update??? |
If it was up your tailpipe you'd know... unless you were texting at the time.
Oh, too soon?
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Ouch!
_________________
Contact me at [email protected]
Follow me on instagram @sparxwerksllc
Decades of VW and VW parts restoration experience.
The Samba member since 2004.
**Now rebuilding throttle bodies for VW's and Porsche's**
**Restored German Bosch distributors for sale or I can restore yours**
**Restored German Pierburg fuel pumps for sale or I can restore yours**
**Restored Porsche fuel pumps or I can restore yours**
**Restored Porsche distributors or I can restore yours** |
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Abscate
Samba Member
Joined: October 05, 2014
Posts: 22670
Location: NYC/Upstate/ROW
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| Posted: Thu Nov 02, 2017 6:19 pm Post subject: Re: The Bi- Coastal Bi Polar Bus. |
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Harsh brownies again...
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Tram
Samba Socialist
Joined: May 02, 2003
Posts: 22728
Location: Still Feelin' the Bern- Once you've felt it you can't un- feel it.
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| Posted: Thu Nov 02, 2017 6:38 pm Post subject: Re: The Bi- Coastal Bi Polar Bus. |
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| D/A/N wrote: |
| busdaddy wrote: |
Sounds normal so far, one side should take off your fingerprints instantly, the other should take 10 seconds to.
Cant wait to hear the results of the test drive!!! |
As one of the cursed owners of this bus, I can't wait either!!! Too bad about this:
| Tram wrote: |
| Due to the heavy rain, wind, and heavy traffic on my street here I didn't go for more. |
But I'm grateful, as many a VW has been destroyed by 2mph winds and some light rain!!!
|
Yeah, the weather report is never wrong, right, Pally? I've seen it say the exact opposite of what's actually going on way more than once. The Springfield weather office doesn't have any windows to look out of. I guarantee it.
Anyways... we got an oh so brief break, so out I went with cell phone. I was actually able to get it up to 60 on 126- W, and hold it there up the slight hill after 52nd. I got stuck behind a semi. Had enough power to pull out and pass... eventually. Speedo topped out at about 62 but it seemed like I was still picking up speed. Turning around at Pioneer, I picked up a new swish swish noise that sounded like a brake rub till I noticed the speedo needle bouncing in tandem. Brought it back and she cruised 55- 60 the whole way... even with some (2 MPH ) wind.
At what speed did youtes guys verify the speedo with your phone? 55?
I'm starting to wonder about the speedo myself. There's way too much oil in the cable and the cable is straighter now. The thing is the speedo needle only bounces... most of the time but not ALL the time.
Let me drive this thing and dick with it for a couple days. I'd like to get this speedo bullshit sorted and fix a few other things like get the steering wheel centered (obviously the alignment specialists don't know how ) and figure out why the fucking turn signals always cancel in the bay but not out on the road. I have a suspicion the wheel is on backwards (or upside down depending how you look at it) because you REALLY have to turn it way far to get the "click" telling you the cancel is set up.
There was most definitely something amiss in that first trans. Too much drag- on ALL gears, it seems. At least that's how it's acting. I'm almost optimistic that once the rings seat we might hit 65. I also need to give the speedo the drill test and see if it's self limiting.
The blower in the heater tube is DAMN nice.
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| Bryan67 wrote: |
| Just my hands. And a little lube. No tools. |
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Tram
Samba Socialist
Joined: May 02, 2003
Posts: 22728
Location: Still Feelin' the Bern- Once you've felt it you can't un- feel it.
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| Posted: Thu Nov 02, 2017 6:43 pm Post subject: Re: The Bi- Coastal Bi Polar Bus. |
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Oh, and I almost forgot... You and my mom... fuckin' weather stalkers!
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