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MarkWard
Samba Member
Joined: February 09, 2005
Posts: 17121
Location: Retired South Florida
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 Posted: Fri Nov 10, 2017 11:18 am Post subject: Re: Buddy heater, fridge, O2 and CO levels |
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Before installing the Espar, we'd use the Little Buddy only to take the chill off in the evening before turning in. We'd light it and wait till the chill was out of the air and shut it off. If we were sitting up reading, if it cooled off too much, we would light it again. Seems we were getting 3 evenings out of a camp bottle with the Little Buddy using it this way.
Oddly, making coffee in the am, the westy stove actually puts out a lot of heat boiling water. It is not uncommon even on the coldest morning to see 70 degrees on the thermostat mounted on the spice rack over the stove. Don't use your stove for heat. Just saying it puts out some BTU's.
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shagginwagon83
Samba Member
Joined: February 07, 2016
Posts: 3796
Location: VA/TN
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| Posted: Fri Nov 10, 2017 11:55 am Post subject: Re: Buddy heater, fridge, O2 and CO levels |
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| raoul mitgong wrote: |
Shaggin,
One byproduct of burning hydrocarbons is H2O. No way around that. You are pumping water into the cabin with a Buddy. The propex/espar/webasto has a heat exchanger so the heat is sent into the cabin while the water, CO, CO2, and other byproducts are sent out the exhaust tube to the outside.
All that Buddy water will condensate on your windows, metal panels, behind the kitchen, door seals, etc. Bad things that can happen with the Buddy are;
1. Freezing your doors shut.
2. Speeding up the rusting of your van.
3. Getting poisoned/killed if there is a failure in your equipment.
If you don't have the $ for a Propex, try to find a friend with a house or apartment that would be willing to run an extension cord out a window to your van. Help with their utilities and they might be stoked. Use a small electric heater with a thermostat (these are cheap) and sleep dry, warm, and safe.
-d |
Thanks for the response. I am really concerned about the rusting of the van (and my life of course).
I just signed this week for my first full time job. I am living with the parents currently. I plan on doing the propex next fall or maybe early spring. I'll use my buddy as you guys suggested - not during sleep.
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Brandon
"Jo Ann" - '83.5 Westfalia EJ22e w/Peloquin
Instagram @joannthevan |
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Tom Powell
Samba Member
Joined: December 01, 2005
Posts: 4855
Location: Kaneohe
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| Posted: Fri Nov 10, 2017 12:21 pm Post subject: Re: Buddy heater, fridge, O2 and CO levels |
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Aloha
tp |
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Steve M.
Samba Member
Joined: July 30, 2013
Posts: 6829
Location: Fort Lauderdale, Fl.
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| Posted: Fri Nov 10, 2017 12:44 pm Post subject: Re: Buddy heater, fridge, O2 and CO levels |
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I was just going to say about snowing and the build up blocking your "vent" windows sealing you inside with your exhaust gases...one picture worth a thousand words if the problem is understood.
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There are seven days in a week. Someday is not one of them. |
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dobryan
Samba Member
Joined: March 24, 2006
Posts: 16503
Location: Brookeville, MD
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pinetreeporsche
Samba Member
Joined: June 11, 2009
Posts: 752
Location: Falls Church, VA
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| Posted: Fri Nov 10, 2017 3:55 pm Post subject: Re: Buddy heater, fridge, O2 and CO levels |
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| Abscate wrote: |
| There are about 5000 CO poisoning incidents a year in U.S. And 500 fatalities. |
Anyone heard of a person or persons who died in a VW or another larger van, from combustion products?? |
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Paulbeard
Samba Member
Joined: July 10, 2015
Posts: 2604
Location: Seattle
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| Posted: Fri Nov 10, 2017 4:06 pm Post subject: Re: Buddy heater, fridge, O2 and CO levels |
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| pinetreeporsche wrote: |
Anyone heard of a person or persons who died in a VW or another larger van, from combustion products?? |
You know you can search for this kind of information?
| Quote: |
A family at the Speedway this weekend didn't expect a deadly gas to fill their camper. One person died and several more were hurt when carbon monoxide filled their camper outside the Indianapolis 500 Sunday.
Four family members went to sleep in an RV Saturday night. Sunday morning one of them, 43-year-old Michael Thies, never woke up. The other three in the RV were hospitalized with carbon monoxide poisoning. — https://www.wthr.com/article/rv-tips-to-prevent-carbon-monoxide-poisoning |
| Quote: |
Two Cloquet residents died of possible carbon monoxide poisoning in their camper on Saturday morning near Brookston, Minn..
The St. Louis County sheriff’s office reported that Richard Smith, 67, and Pamela Smith, 65, were found unresponsive in their camper at 7:19 a.m. Saturday. Despite rescue efforts by friends and first responders, they were pronounced dead at the scene, according to the sheriff’s office. - http://www.twincities.com/2017/06/05/in-northeast-...poisoning/ |
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dobryan
Samba Member
Joined: March 24, 2006
Posts: 16503
Location: Brookeville, MD
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djkeev
Samba Moderator
Joined: September 30, 2007
Posts: 32594
Location: Reading Pennsylvania
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DanHoug
Samba Member
Joined: December 05, 2016
Posts: 4777
Location: Bemidji, MN
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| Posted: Sat Nov 11, 2017 8:46 am Post subject: Re: Buddy heater, fridge, O2 and CO levels |
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the 2 two MN people died from CO poisoning due to using a genset in an unvented compartment in their RV. well it WAS vented with leaks to the interior.
more on the CO levels from the Buddy. while my home CO detector in the van did not spike off of zero, i recently used an industrial CO monitor and held it in the heat above the Buddy while on. it registered as high as 19ppm CO. fairly low from an exposure standpoint, turning on the stove to cook something generates WAY more CO (up to 1600ppm) but it is all good to be aware of. bottom line: don't sleep with an unvented heater or the stove on.
an important aspect of CO is to remember it is a true chemical poison vs the effect from lowered oxygen, which is 'merely' suffocation. the key difference being you can die from a 1 minute exposure to very high CO (above 12,000ppm), similar to orally ingesting a poison.
-dan |
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