Replacing late rear drums on an early bay.

[busboyjake]

I have a '69 that someone has stuck a late front beam under (2-bolts on each side..... bad). It also has narrow 5 drums on the rear.

My plan is to replace this nonsense with a proper '69 wide 5 beam and replace the rear stuff as well so that I can run wide 5 15" wheels all around.

My question is: is it possible that I just have to swap the hub/drum out for an early 1-piece drum, or do I need to replace axles and housings and brakes and the whole 9 yards?
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[klcarrie]

9 yards.

Rear stub axle length differs between 68, 69-70, 71...
Cannot mix and match hubs, axles and drums.


Front: 10 yards.
Seek out complete beam, drum to drum.
Would need more info as to which specific beam you have in the bus now.
if its a 71-72 beam, maybe the spindles would cross over.
If its a later beam, no dice.
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Pritchin'
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Currently looking for:

- Bay Bus Pinion Nut Socket

- 64-67 big nut (rear) drums and brake parts, 46mm axle nuts (Big Nuts)

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'55 Wolfburg Pannel Project
'55 Wolfsburg SC Project
'71 Westy

[busboyjake]

[klcarrie]

[bastardbus]

I am converting a `71 to wide five drum set up. Replacing the front spindles and parts but in rear can one just replace the stub axle, and all drum components or do I need to replace the entire bearing carrier as well.
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Samba Member #95

[klcarrie]

Carriers too.

AFAIK stub axle bearing seats (and corresponding bearing seats on the carriers) differ as follow:
Model Year
68 only
69-70.

71-79

Plus for 71-79 I know of the following difference:

The early early-71 carriers are threaded to receive a bolt that holds the brake slave
the late 71-79 carriers are not threaded to receive. The cylinder itself is threaded..

best would be get an assembly complete from carrier to brake drum.
_________________
Pritchin'
--
Currently looking for:

- Bay Bus Pinion Nut Socket

- 64-67 big nut (rear) drums and brake parts, 46mm axle nuts (Big Nuts)

--
'55 Wolfburg Pannel Project
'55 Wolfsburg SC Project
'71 Westy

[airschooled]

A few corrections for teh OP....

Personal decisions aside, there is no suspension difference in a disc front beam and a drum front beam. The differences are in the beam mounting holes (68-69, or 70+) and the mounting plate for the brake servo (70+.)

...So you can easily put 68-70 drums on a late beams, and even keep the torsion arms. (Shock bushing sizes changed in 70 too; another reason to keep your torsion arms.) Just like how you can put disc spindles and rotors/calipers on an early beam as long as you weld the booster/MC mounting plate on.

There will be a few other minor differences, like the steering full-lock bolts from when VW introduced radial tires to the bus around '70, but there is no reason to replace a good beam.

Robbie
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[bastardbus]

Thanks Robbie...yup I found you can just swap drum spindles onto the `71 beam. Look at the lowered spindles available they are a once size fits all for 68-79 buses so that verifies that.

As for the rear still curious as definitive answer if one can use the existing `71 bearings-hub and swap in the `70 and earlier stub, spacer then drum. The two hubs use the exact same inner bearings and seals and outer seal. That means the axles shafts are same OD. true the `71 up used a different outer bearing but from what I have seen the dimensions are the same. So seems there is a good chance that just swaping in the 68-70 axle with it's oil seal spacer and then drum would work. The only chance I see for an issue is dimensional width of the bearing housing and bearing placement inside it. Something that would need to be compared with both sets side by side. If anyone has done this let us know.

P.S. I have seen a couple various threads over the years where someone has installed later axle stub and brake set up on an EARLY bus but those are old threads and looked like hacks to me, so not holding that as sound proof.
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Samba Member #95

[Amskeptic]

[bastardbus]

I would be curious to hear busboyjake (author of this thread) chime in on this. Apparently his `69 had later rear drum set up installed. Would be interesting to find out some details.

-did his 69 still have the original rear hubs
-was there any mods to the original bearings spacers etc in those hubs IF so.
-did the later axle and associated parts fit and work properly with early hubs.
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Samba Member #95

[bastardbus]

After doing a bit more research, I noticed I can even retain the power brakes with the drums. Interesting...

https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=...p;start=20
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Samba Member #95

[bastardbus]

So I got an email from Jeff G today and he actually had a n early and late assembly on the bench in front of him and here is what he wrote (hope you don't mind me quoting you Jeff!).

[cdennisg]

Good to know. I always understood that one needed to replace the entire rear brake assembly, but I never knew exactly why.

Thanks for updating us.
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[EverettB]

Moderator note:
I did some cleanup, thanks to the member who reported it.

Let's get back on topic and not insult each other.
If you don't want to to provide technical help, exit the thread.
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[lil-jinx]

Will you also need to replace the master cylinder?I"m thinking of different delivery rates and pressures,and are the residual pressure valves the same,[residual pressure valve thanks again Robbie]
Also will this brake change affect the proportioning valve operation?
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[bastardbus]

liljinx if you look at my earlier posts there is a thread I linked on using the power servo set up with drum brakes. Bunch-a guys did it and rave reviews.

From what I have read, yes the 68-70 MCs are basically interchangeable and yes indeed the `71 power set up has the same ID and internals of the earlier MC, only difference is the servo set up. The did state since you no longer have front discs the regulator or proportioning valve is no longer needed with the all drum set up. There are several good threads about this on the forums here.
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