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T91Carat Samba Member
Joined: February 02, 2017 Posts: 70 Location: Denver, CO
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Posted: Thu Nov 16, 2017 2:16 pm Post subject: Vanagon Core Engine - Costs/Value |
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Being the middle of a Subaru engine swap had caused me to consider what to do with my 2.1 engine. Which is running well, other than low oil pressure. Its gonna need a bottom end rebuild. My reason for the swap.
Through the course of my daily Vanagon browsing I cannot help but notice that it seems Vanagon engine cores are demanding quite the high dollar.
On CL here in CO there is a 1.9 asking $1000.00 and here today on The Samba classifieds I see an air cooled 2.0 also asking $1000.00.
Are there so few of our rebuildable cores left that they are demanding that high of a price? Or is there just a group of people with pipe dreams of getting that much for the core?
Have original motors jumped in value? In the future is there an increasing value for vans with original motors and matching numbers? Not that it would effect my actions with my van, I drive it for love and it takes all my money.....
Any one else notice this increase in core prices? |
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shagginwagon83 Samba Member
Joined: February 07, 2016 Posts: 3786 Location: VA/TN
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Posted: Thu Nov 16, 2017 2:53 pm Post subject: Re: Vanagon Core Engine - Costs/Value |
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Is this a whats my engine worth thread?
If so I wanna play - 1.9L water boxer with 120k miles - not sure on pressure _________________ Brandon
"Jo Ann" - '83.5 Westfalia EJ22e w/Peloquin
Instagram @joannthevan |
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tencentlife Samba Member
Joined: May 02, 2006 Posts: 10067 Location: Abiquiu, NM, USA
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Posted: Thu Nov 16, 2017 3:07 pm Post subject: Re: Vanagon Core Engine - Costs/Value |
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Wbx cores in good rebuildable condition are plentiful, there's no end in sight for supply of either type (core availability is definitely NOT one of the reasons I moved out of engines). Laypeople just don't know what they're really worth, but it's honestly not much when they're so easy to get. So it's follow-the-leader, they look at existing ads and peg their price to the already overpriced offerings, and the low-ballers see that and raise their prices, too.
If you want to move yours, with shipping at $200-300 you really want to sell in your local, or at least regional, market, so price it appropriately for your market and it'll be gone fast without the logistical hassle. _________________ Shop for unique Vanagon accessories at the Vanistan shop:
https://intrepidoverland.com/vanistan/
Please don't PM here, I will not reply.
Experience is kryptonite to doctrine. |
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Wildthings Samba Member
Joined: March 13, 2005 Posts: 50255
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Posted: Thu Nov 16, 2017 3:08 pm Post subject: Re: Vanagon Core Engine - Costs/Value |
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I have paid $400-500 for good running 2.1L engines that were pulled to do swaps. I would say an engine with low oil pressure isn't going to be worth much at all.
Last edited by Wildthings on Thu Nov 16, 2017 5:54 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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T91Carat Samba Member
Joined: February 02, 2017 Posts: 70 Location: Denver, CO
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Posted: Thu Nov 16, 2017 3:28 pm Post subject: Re: Vanagon Core Engine - Costs/Value |
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Not really, was not looking to sell or get a value for mine. Is really just a shocking observation that I wondered if it was a common trend market wide and not just here in the Colorado, California and PacWest where there seems to be a larger number of Vanagons available and on the road.
I am actually thinking of holding onto it and rebuilding it. Have never torn down the water cooled 2.1 all the way, could be a fun learning xp.
GoWesty also is charging a 1000.00 core charge, which would say you could possibly get at that in an open market for one. I could have sworn a few years ago that was a $600 core charge, but could be remembering it wrong. Not dinging GoWesty, they rock, cost I am sure is tied to market and availability.
Prices seem to be going higher, does that mean the avialblity market has shrunk that much? I know its been almost 2 years since I have even seen or any of the local junk yards have had a Vanagon here in the Denver area. All the local yards tell me that they get snapped up before they even make it to the yard cause of the value of their parts.
Already know my van is a money pit.... Totally ok with and accepted that long ago. You can not put a price on love. |
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mellowslow Samba Member
Joined: July 31, 2009 Posts: 278 Location: Vacationland
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Posted: Thu Nov 16, 2017 3:51 pm Post subject: Re: Vanagon Core Engine - Costs/Value |
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I paid $750 for a running Waterboxer in 2011.
Sold it for $500 after 2 camping seasons.
Had another running 2.1 in 2014 with leaky heads sold for $350 and shipped to the middle of the country.
Now I’m sitting on another 2.1 longblock that I’d love to get $200 GoBucks from the GoWesty core buyback program. Never cover the shipping though.
I think the core deposit on an engine purchase may be a different thing.
I’d trade it for beer or something good like that if I knew it was going to an enthusiast. There are a few around here. I may end up recycling it. _________________ '87 WBWE FAS Gen V |
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candyman Samba Trout Slayer
Joined: December 20, 2003 Posts: 2694 Location: Missoula MT
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Posted: Thu Nov 16, 2017 4:20 pm Post subject: Re: Vanagon Core Engine - Costs/Value |
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$200 provided all the ancillaries are there
Gowesty is in no way an assessment of true value |
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tencentlife Samba Member
Joined: May 02, 2006 Posts: 10067 Location: Abiquiu, NM, USA
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Posted: Thu Nov 16, 2017 5:49 pm Post subject: Re: Vanagon Core Engine - Costs/Value |
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Quote: |
I think the core deposit on an engine purchase may be a different thing.
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Correct, as a business it's a very different thing. Core deposits (remember, up front they're not fees) are artificially high to ensure the builder gets a core in return. A few customers choose to keep their core and eat the deposits as it is, but if the core deposit was reflective of open market price, then other customers would figure they could get more on the open market and avoid the return ship cost, and the builder's core supply wouldn't keep up with production. Since some cores returned are already not rebuildable, builders are always having to procure make-up cores anyway, having fewer returned means more energy spent searching, and cost to ship borne by the rebuilder.
Having a hefty crate deposit is further assurance of a return, since the crate has no real market value for the customer, but great value for the rebuilder as an investment that can be used again and again. As an engine builder, I really hated having to spend my time building crates, even though my $200 crate deposit was more than the time and materials cost. I just always had better uses for my time.
I was always pretty generous about core refunds, I think in 10 years building the wbx I declined only a handful of 2.1 cases. Damaged parts were mostly pushrods and tubes, even so maybe one in four of my core refunds had any deductions. From what I can gather some rebuilders are not so generous, and perhaps less than honest, because as the judging authority it's pretty easy to use core deposits as a source of cash as well. _________________ Shop for unique Vanagon accessories at the Vanistan shop:
https://intrepidoverland.com/vanistan/
Please don't PM here, I will not reply.
Experience is kryptonite to doctrine. |
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michaelbteam Samba Member
Joined: June 28, 2012 Posts: 232
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Posted: Thu Nov 16, 2017 6:06 pm Post subject: Re: Vanagon Core Engine - Costs/Value |
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Two years ago I sold my solidly running, complete 2.1, in the middle of a swap for $1000. A traveler with a tired engine saw my ad and was able to have the shop do the switch after he saw it run. |
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Bulli Klinik Samba Member
Joined: January 16, 2005 Posts: 2065 Location: Bulli Klinik, Colorado Springs
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Posted: Thu Nov 16, 2017 6:19 pm Post subject: Re: Vanagon Core Engine - Costs/Value |
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I just bought a 1.9 with 88K miles on it for $300.00. Long block without the ancillaries. _________________ I've never met a Bus I didn't like.
Mike K
Bulli Klinik
Colorado Springs |
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Bills85Westy Samba Member
Joined: August 01, 2009 Posts: 423 Location: Napa CA
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Posted: Thu Nov 16, 2017 11:28 pm Post subject: Re: Vanagon Core Engine - Costs/Value |
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I just sold a running but tired 2.1 with no major issues for $200 and was glad to get it. _________________ 89 Tristar Syncro Doka - White
85 Westfalia Syncro (conversion)
SAH 1.8T Conversion - 2005 AWP
Engine Conversion Thread: http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=612144&highlight=
85 Doka L345 Grey - 1.9L |
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mikemtnbike Samba Member
Joined: March 26, 2015 Posts: 2780 Location: North Carolina
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Posted: Fri Nov 17, 2017 7:13 am Post subject: Re: Vanagon Core Engine - Costs/Value |
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I'm currently watching my local lists for a core to rebuild for...fun?...anyway, I'm prepared to pay up to $500 depending on condition. In case you were wondering about the interested buyers side of the equation... _________________ 1991 Vanagon GL 2.1 AT Westfauxlia. "Frankie" Totaled https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=764510&highlight=carnage
1995 Eurovan Camper "Marzivan"
2020 GTI SE manual |
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jimf909 Samba Member
Joined: April 03, 2014 Posts: 7402 Location: WA/ID
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Posted: Fri Nov 17, 2017 8:09 am Post subject: Re: Vanagon Core Engine - Costs/Value |
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Last year I sold a 2.1 with declining oil pressure for $400 - $500. The buyer saw it running in my van with an OP gauge attached. $1000 seems steep unless diagnostics can be done with the engine running and it’s in great condition with some fresh bits (fuel lines, hoses, coolant tank, exhaust...pick a few). _________________ - Jim
Abscate wrote: |
Do not get killed, do not kill others.
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Current: 1990 Westy Camper - Bostig RG4, 2wd, manual trans w/Peloquin, NAHT high-top, 280 ah LFP battery, 160 watts solar, Flash Silver, seam rust, bondo, etc., etc.
Past: 1985 Westy Camper - 1.9 wbx, 2wd, manual trans, Merian Brown, (sold after 17 years to Northwesty who converted it to a Syncro). |
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MarkWard Samba Member
Joined: February 09, 2005 Posts: 17009 Location: Retired South Florida
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Posted: Fri Nov 17, 2017 8:21 am Post subject: Re: Vanagon Core Engine - Costs/Value |
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The majority of prices in the classifieds on the Samba seem inflated compared to the rest of the world to me. But if you need a part that is NLA, the Samba classifieds are a good place to start your search and yes, its simple capitalism 101 Supply and Demand. _________________ ☮️ |
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danfromsyr Samba Member
Joined: March 01, 2004 Posts: 15129 Location: Syracuse, NY
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Posted: Fri Nov 17, 2017 8:38 am Post subject: Re: Vanagon Core Engine - Costs/Value |
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then there's the ancillaries.
pricing seems high to me as there should be far more supply of orphaned ecus, Afms, idle motors and cooling system bits and bobs
but sellers seem to prey on the desperation of those trying to play parts darts in diagnosing or wishing to carry spares on road trips.. _________________
Abscate wrote: |
These are the reasons we have words like “wanker” |
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Yondermtn Samba Member
Joined: November 21, 2007 Posts: 609 Location: Illinois
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Posted: Fri Nov 17, 2017 12:08 pm Post subject: Re: Vanagon Core Engine - Costs/Value |
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Supply and demand both seem to be significantly higher in the West for used engines, especially in running/useable condition. I'm always looking for one of these pulled for a swap 2.1 engines and never seem to see any within a reasonable drive of Chicago. _________________ 1977 Westfalia 2.0FI 4spd
1990 Multivan 2.1 Auto |
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Abscate Samba Member
Joined: October 05, 2014 Posts: 22568 Location: NYC/Upstate/ROW
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Posted: Fri Nov 17, 2017 12:33 pm Post subject: Re: Vanagon Core Engine - Costs/Value |
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Ive ground down a few overpriced sellers by offering 1/4 of ask, then having a couple of shill offers, then offering 1/3 to 'outbid' the market.
Funny thing is, if they offered at 1/2 of their original I would just pay it and move on.
Hogs get slaughtered, too. _________________ .ssS! |
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Ahwahnee Samba Member
Joined: June 05, 2010 Posts: 9776 Location: Mt Lemmon, AZ
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Posted: Fri Nov 17, 2017 1:37 pm Post subject: Re: Vanagon Core Engine - Costs/Value |
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T91Carat wrote: |
...GoWesty also is charging a 1000.00 core charge, which would say you could possibly get at that in an open market for one. I could have sworn a few years ago that was a $600 core charge, but could be remembering it wrong... |
When I got my GoWesty rebuild 12 years ago the core charge was $1,000. Just a number to motivate the buyer to follow-up on the return.
I do not recall how much of the thousand I got back, certainly almost all of it and I have no recollection of feeling I was not treated fairly. |
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raoul mitgong Samba Member
Joined: July 05, 2009 Posts: 1338 Location: Denver, CO
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Posted: Fri Nov 17, 2017 2:48 pm Post subject: Re: Vanagon Core Engine - Costs/Value |
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I was excited until the second sentence. I'm looking in the Denver area and not finding any recently. I passed on a $250 engine in good shape this spring and have been kicking myself since. I've seen running engines listed from 250-1300 but most are in the 4-800 range.
-d _________________ 84 Westy with a 2.1 (Groover)
86 Tintop Syncro (Crow)
86 Tintop Syncro to Westy project (Tom Servo)
91 Westy (Only the top 12 inches of this van (a burn victim)) |
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SyncroHead Samba Member
Joined: May 23, 2005 Posts: 1139 Location: Northern Nevada
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Posted: Thu Aug 13, 2020 3:40 pm Post subject: Re: Vanagon Core Engine - Costs/Value |
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I have a 1.9 core and a 2.1 core. Both stored for years now and it's time to clear out some space.
1.9 semi-ran when it was removed and turned over fine. Now it won't rotate.
2.1 was seized when I got it, but I just wanted the accessories that came with it.
What does someone do with cores that don't even rotate? Are they scrap?
I they're just scrap, I'll probably take one apart since I've never been inside one of these before. Might save some "display parts".
Jim Davis _________________ "A Vanagon? It's not a car or a van. It's a hobby!"
Check out:
www.VANAVATION.com
www.SyncroSafari.org and
www.Vanagons.org
sphet wrote: |
I have *no* idea what the previous owner carried in his Westy... angry donkeys? |
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