Turbo S CEL that won't go away

[oasis]

I have a 2003 Turbo S with less than 60k miles on it; bought it in February with less than 50k miles on it. It's been a blast to drive.

Four weeks ago I got a CEL even though Turbo S was running like a champ. The shop I have been going to with all of my VWs since 1988 reset the codes to see if the CEL would reappear. It did.

The shop replaced:

• oil dipstick tube funnel
  
• PCV valve
  
• EGR vacuum solenoid
  

The CEL returned the next day.

The shop checked it over again and replaced some brake hose (no paperwork, no charge). I took it home that night and no CEL. I couldn't drive it for a week because of an injury preventing me from driving a manual, but the next time I drove it, the CEL returned.

This time, I made an appointment with one of the dealerships I have been to for warranty and other miscellaneous repairs. Their report included the codes. They were:

• P1111 - oxygen sensor control system too lean
  
• P1151 - lean limit no reached (not reached?)
  
• P1297 - torottle (throttle?) valve pressure drop
  

The report continued, "The tech checked wastegate on turbo and wiring from wastegate actuator to the ECM. No breaks in the wiring and wastegate operating as designed. Tech checked ECM, no water damage or corrosion in ECM. Tech checked boost system, found suction jet pump and valve failed."

The replaced parts were:

• 058-133-753-D pump
  
• 058-905-291-B valve
  

Today, I picked up Turbo S after that nine-day stay. Before I made my third stop -- home -- the CEL returned.

Is there something these cats are overlooking?

Since Turbo S is running fine, I asked the first shop whether it's receiving bogus signals or misinterpreting them? They scoffed at the notion. The dealership looked for physical evidence, but I'm still wondering if there's an internal problem of some sort.

If it weren't for the damn CEL, I would be merrily commuting with a fine running Turbo S. I don't know how well I can just live with a CEL staring me down, although I know plenty of people who do. On the other hand, spending more money after putting out a thou with no results isn't easy to live with either.

I don't even know if I should go back to the first shop, to the dealership, to another dealership, to another VW specialty shop, or to an Audi specialty shop since everyone tells me it basically has an Audi engine in it.

Any and all suggestions would be appreciated.
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Now: 2003 New Beetle Turbo S / 1990 Single Cab Transporter / 2014 Tiguan R-Line 4motion / 2013 Tiguan S / 2002 Golf GLS TDI
Past: 1974 Thing Acapulco / 2009 Eos Komfort / 1997 Jetta GT / 2002 Cabrio GLX / 2002 Passat GLS / 1971 Super Beetle / 1993 EuroVan MV Westfalia / 1981 Pickup LX / 1985 Vanagon / 1986 Jetta GLI

[TDCTDI]

The tech/shop are idiots, those codes don't equate to turbo or overrun valve issues.

Have a shop that SPECIALIZES in VW/Audi perform a smoke test on the intake system, you will more than likely have a cracked/broken crank case breather hose, this will usually involve replacing the breather hose, breather connector, PCV valve, & hose from breather connector to hose at valve cover due to brittle/oil softened plastic & rubber parts.

You also run the risk of replacing quite a few other vacuum lines & hoses if the tech happens to be ham fisted.
_________________
Everybody born before 1975 has a story, good, bad, or indifferent, about a VW.


GOFUNDYOURSELF, quit asking everyone to do it for you!


An air cooled VW will make you a hoarder.


Do something, anything, to your project every day, and you will eventually complete it.

[Butcher]

The OP sent it to the dealership, shouldn't that mean they are specialized in VW? Do not bother answering, I agree, they are idiots.

I also agree a simple smoke test will tell you a lot. I do not know how many miles it has, but once you get a bunch, even the lightest touch causes the plastic to break.

[TDCTDI]

[oasis]

[oasis]

[TDCTDI]

If the PCV valve was replaced then make sure that the rest of the components mentioned above were also replaced, its damned near impossible to replace it without breaking the other parts.

I have seen that code triggered by a bad timing chain tensioner gasket, the smoke test came back as inconclusive due to the fact that the smoke didn't reach all the way through the system & was only found by a light "bubbling " sound. Check for oil staining/dampness just above the coolant flange on the end of the cylinder head.
_________________
Everybody born before 1975 has a story, good, bad, or indifferent, about a VW.


GOFUNDYOURSELF, quit asking everyone to do it for you!


An air cooled VW will make you a hoarder.


Do something, anything, to your project every day, and you will eventually complete it.

[oasis]

Thanks for the info! I will forward all of it.
_________________
Now: 2003 New Beetle Turbo S / 1990 Single Cab Transporter / 2014 Tiguan R-Line 4motion / 2013 Tiguan S / 2002 Golf GLS TDI
Past: 1974 Thing Acapulco / 2009 Eos Komfort / 1997 Jetta GT / 2002 Cabrio GLX / 2002 Passat GLS / 1971 Super Beetle / 1993 EuroVan MV Westfalia / 1981 Pickup LX / 1985 Vanagon / 1986 Jetta GLI

[oasis]

Believe it or not, the saga is still going on. Believe it or not, the saga may be coming to a conclusion.

It seems the culprit may be the after market exhaust the previous owner placed onto it. I won't go into the full explanation of how that makes it read as running lean as I may paraphrase incorrectly.

Apparently my two options are going back to a stock exhaust with a stock catalytic converter, or go to a Stage 2 conversion and flash. Since I was considering the latter anyway, that will be route I have them try -- "them" being my original shop partnering with a doodle from a VW dealership who often does these things including the original shop's owner's Audi TT.

I am hopeful to get car back by the end of the week. Again, I appreciate the suggestions. I think they did help in narrowing down the possibilities.
_________________
Now: 2003 New Beetle Turbo S / 1990 Single Cab Transporter / 2014 Tiguan R-Line 4motion / 2013 Tiguan S / 2002 Golf GLS TDI
Past: 1974 Thing Acapulco / 2009 Eos Komfort / 1997 Jetta GT / 2002 Cabrio GLX / 2002 Passat GLS / 1971 Super Beetle / 1993 EuroVan MV Westfalia / 1981 Pickup LX / 1985 Vanagon / 1986 Jetta GLI

[TDCTDI]

Aftermarket cats are crap, but they cause catalyst efficiency codes, not lean run faults. A VW will cause the aftermarket cats to overheat & burn up, but unless there is an exhaust leak, your lean condition is before the combustion cycle. A dealership is always going to blame aftermarket parts, especially if they can't find an obvious issue. The dealership also isn't likely to work with outside shops to diagnose an issue unless said shop takes the vehicle to & pays the dealership to diagnose/fix it.

Many years ago, a kid came into a shop I worked at & asked the boss "could this be the problem with my car?"' & the boss said "yes, it could be", two weeks later the kid comes back all pissed off & tells the boss that the thing he said was wrong with his car didn't fix it & the boss told him "you asked me "could this be the problem with my car" & I said "yes, it could be", not "yes it was", and you got exactly what you paid for".
_________________
Everybody born before 1975 has a story, good, bad, or indifferent, about a VW.


GOFUNDYOURSELF, quit asking everyone to do it for you!


An air cooled VW will make you a hoarder.


Do something, anything, to your project every day, and you will eventually complete it.

[Butcher]

[skills@eurocarsplus]

are all the parts OEM VW? lots of aftermarket PVC components for these are just junk...and that is a fact any VAG guy can confirm

cat back exhaust shouldn't be a problem IF there are no leaks around the o2's. aftermarket cat....no good on ANY car, let alone a vw

vw had several revisions of the PVC stuff. again, anything aftermarket is pure headaches....

any stupid k&n in this thing? I have seen them coat MAFs and throw rich/lean codes. and no, you can't clean a MAF successfully.....I don't care what anyone says
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[oasis]

I'm not sure on the cat. I know it has an aftermarket exhaust. The brand is on the outermost extension. It is a brand I have heard of before but don't remember the name off the top of my head. I don't know if the cat was changed with the exhaust or if it was just part of the explanation and/or solution. Since I haven't gotten a further update, I'm not sure where it stands. The attempt is going forward with the flash and Stage 2. As for other aftermarket parts, there was nothing else in the performance realm. Two aftermarket parts (previous owner) were replaced with VW parts but that was earlier and did not lead to a resolution with the CEL. I will update when I know more.

Wouldn't an o2 leak show with a smoke test? The smoke test has been done at least three times.
_________________
Now: 2003 New Beetle Turbo S / 1990 Single Cab Transporter / 2014 Tiguan R-Line 4motion / 2013 Tiguan S / 2002 Golf GLS TDI
Past: 1974 Thing Acapulco / 2009 Eos Komfort / 1997 Jetta GT / 2002 Cabrio GLX / 2002 Passat GLS / 1971 Super Beetle / 1993 EuroVan MV Westfalia / 1981 Pickup LX / 1985 Vanagon / 1986 Jetta GLI

[Butcher]

The O2 sensor measures the amount of oxygen and compares it to the oxygen to the atmosphere. So, if you have an exhaust leak in front of the O2 sensor, it will sense too much oxygen and screw up the fuel mixture adjustment.

Could you smoke test the exhaust system, probably, I have needed to.

[skills@eurocarsplus]

I should clarify...

was any of the PVC stuff aftermarket? anything aftermarket related to the engine usually ends up being a headache....especially electronics

in severe cases of PVC failure on these, they suck in the rear main seal, and this can be a cause of unmetered air entering the system.
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[Butcher]

PCV, not PVC.

I do agree, if that system is not working, it's a potential for fuel mixture codes.

[oasis]

I wish I were in a position to take notes or record my conversations because the risk of me paraphrasing what I remember leaves open the possibility of misinterpretation and misrepresentation. But here goes my best stab at the most recent conversation ...

The sensor measuring air flow (or whatever it measures in grams) is too close to being the same with its early reading and at the cat (which is aftermarket like the rest of the exhaust). It is getting "flashed" tomorrow and an upgraded diverter valve on Wednesday. That will supposedly cure this sucker and give me more boost to boot.

I bought the car last February with less than 50k miles on it. I'm the third owner. I can't say why a previous owner would have only changed the exhaust other than its sound (not a reason in my book although I do like its tone without being louder). The only time I ever changed an exhaust to something non-stock was with my '71 when the engine went non-stock, and I may do that with my '74. Dicking around with a CEL has been maddening, especially when it drives perfectly well the entire time.

We'll see later this week (assuming) when I pick it up. It will seem like I got a new car. Again.

Thanks for all of the feedback. This thread will go into my folder.
_________________
Now: 2003 New Beetle Turbo S / 1990 Single Cab Transporter / 2014 Tiguan R-Line 4motion / 2013 Tiguan S / 2002 Golf GLS TDI
Past: 1974 Thing Acapulco / 2009 Eos Komfort / 1997 Jetta GT / 2002 Cabrio GLX / 2002 Passat GLS / 1971 Super Beetle / 1993 EuroVan MV Westfalia / 1981 Pickup LX / 1985 Vanagon / 1986 Jetta GLI

[oasis]

Hopefully, this is the final post of my saga. I picked up Turbo S, ran a few errands not necessarily taking the most direct route, and no CEL.

On the final report, two of the three original codes remained. I'm not sure when or why the one code was cleared for good. A "one-way valve" was replaced and that took care of the lean code. The throttle pressure drop code remained.

Then, the throttle body adaptation was checked and performed at the advice of the VW Techline but the code still returned.

The O2 readings were checked before and after catalyst. No change was found indicating no back pressure in catalyst. Techline recommended replacing the catalytic converter for the throttle pressure drop code.

Instead of going that route, we decided to go with a Unitronix Stage 2 flash, and a couple of other associated goodies. This was something that was discussed long prior to all of this, and was planned for the future. The future is now.

Besides no immediate return of the dreaded CEL and how nice it was just to have Beetle back, the extra HP and torque was an extra joy.
_________________
Now: 2003 New Beetle Turbo S / 1990 Single Cab Transporter / 2014 Tiguan R-Line 4motion / 2013 Tiguan S / 2002 Golf GLS TDI
Past: 1974 Thing Acapulco / 2009 Eos Komfort / 1997 Jetta GT / 2002 Cabrio GLX / 2002 Passat GLS / 1971 Super Beetle / 1993 EuroVan MV Westfalia / 1981 Pickup LX / 1985 Vanagon / 1986 Jetta GLI

[Butcher]

[TDCTDI]