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Brake Pedal Activated Brake Light Switch - Interest Survey
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GearHeadKeith
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 18, 2017 9:05 pm    Post subject: Brake Pedal Activated Brake Light Switch - Interest Survey Reply with quote

Having owned air-cooled Volkswagens for over 20 years, I have noticed a problem with brake light activation. Newer brake light pressure switches seem to require more effort to activate the brake lights. My personal Super Beetle has been converted to disc brakes, which takes less pedal effort to stop when compared to the OE drum brakes. These combination of these two leads to a situation where the brake lights on my car would not turn on during a slow, low-speed stop. This caused some close calls where drivers behind me nearly rear-ended me.

To remedy this situation, I developed a brake pedal activated brake light switch to fit my Type I. The switch is located behind the accelerator pedal, hidden from plain view. Now my brake lights come on as soon as I depress the brake pedal. The installation is bolt-in with minor wiring. If you can crimp connectors and use a ratchet, you can install this switch about 20 minutes.

I created this survey to collect information if other members of The Samba would be interested in this brake pedal activated brake light switch. Please click the link below and share your thoughts.

https://www.surveymonkey.com/r/LF26FK8
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Last edited by GearHeadKeith on Thu Dec 28, 2017 4:16 am; edited 1 time in total
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Fiddlestyx
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 19, 2017 5:02 pm    Post subject: Re: Survey About Brake Pedal Activated Brake Light Switch Reply with quote

As long as it retains the brake warning light, I would be in for one. Too much going on right now to make one myself.
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GearHeadKeith
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 19, 2017 7:24 pm    Post subject: Re: Survey About Brake Pedal Activated Brake Light Switch Reply with quote

It retains the OE brake light switches (both on master cylinder) and the brake warning light. Basically, it adds a 3rd brake light switch in parallel to the two OE switches. Whenever 1 of the switches makes contact, it completes the circuit to illuminate the brake lights.

https://drive.google.com/open?id=1wc2t-qJuJ8LmmAZBA8KcYTtbtzRTHHTC
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Keith Gilbert - DdK
1971 Super Beetle sedan, Shantung yellow with black interior. Cosmetically unrestored with over 366k miles.
1776cc: 9.2:1 compression, dual Weber 40DCN on Deano intakes, Primo Petrucci 40mm/36mm round-port heads, Crower VW284F cam, Kymco 1.5" exhaust
SSC trans with 3.78/2.25/1.48/1.04 & 4.12 Gleason R&P, Type IV output flanges, Berg Shifter
Topline front struts/springs/sway bar, Sway-a-Way rear bar, 4-wheel disc brakes
Owned since 1994: 3rd owner since new!
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joey1320
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 19, 2017 7:31 pm    Post subject: Re: Survey About Brake Pedal Activated Brake Light Switch Reply with quote

Survey submitted.
Good idea.
Thanks
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Multi69s
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 19, 2017 7:34 pm    Post subject: Re: Survey About Brake Pedal Activated Brake Light Switch Reply with quote

I actually think that it is a great idea. So many of our cars have had the wiring butchered by a PO, or purchased poor quality pressure switches. Also, the brake warning system in the majority of the cars I have worked on is non existent. Its good in theory, but poorly executed. In fact when you look at most other car manufactures, the brake lights are controlled by pedal movement, not by brake line pressure.
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Multi69s
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 19, 2017 7:37 pm    Post subject: Re: Survey About Brake Pedal Activated Brake Light Switch Reply with quote

I actually think that it is a great idea. So many of our cars have had the wiring butchered by a PO, or purchased poor quality pressure switches. Also, the brake warning system in the majority of the cars I have worked on is non existent. Its good in theory, but poorly executed. In fact when you look at most other car manufactures, the brake lights are controlled by pedal movement, not by brake line pressure.
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vwkirb
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 19, 2017 7:52 pm    Post subject: Re: Survey About Brake Pedal Activated Brake Light Switch Reply with quote

I'm all for it, especially if you can figure out a way to mount it... I've thought about it but the pedal setup is so different on a vw than other cars, i've never come to an easy solution.

Though what you have looks like it would work... im not sure about long term. It gets dirty down there.
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Cusser
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 20, 2017 6:36 am    Post subject: Re: Survey About Brake Pedal Activated Brake Light Switch Reply with quote

Isn't there already something like this available commercially ?? I'd thought so.


Also:
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=607599
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vwkirb
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 20, 2017 6:53 am    Post subject: Re: Survey About Brake Pedal Activated Brake Light Switch Reply with quote

I think that product has been discontinued. Not classic bug parts used to make it
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 20, 2017 1:33 pm    Post subject: Re: Survey About Brake Pedal Activated Brake Light Switch Reply with quote

The Classic Bug Parts instant brake light switch is discontinued and it was $155 anyways (no wonder it was discontinued).
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GearHeadKeith
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 28, 2017 4:15 am    Post subject: Re: Survey About Brake Pedal Activated Brake Light Switch Reply with quote

TTT. Still looking for more responses from TheSamba members. Thank you in advance for your input!

@vwkirb, the switch I am using is sealed. It should hold up to water, grit, etc. I've had one in my car for 2 years without an issue.
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Keith Gilbert - DdK
1971 Super Beetle sedan, Shantung yellow with black interior. Cosmetically unrestored with over 366k miles.
1776cc: 9.2:1 compression, dual Weber 40DCN on Deano intakes, Primo Petrucci 40mm/36mm round-port heads, Crower VW284F cam, Kymco 1.5" exhaust
SSC trans with 3.78/2.25/1.48/1.04 & 4.12 Gleason R&P, Type IV output flanges, Berg Shifter
Topline front struts/springs/sway bar, Sway-a-Way rear bar, 4-wheel disc brakes
Owned since 1994: 3rd owner since new!


Last edited by GearHeadKeith on Mon Jan 15, 2018 6:57 pm; edited 1 time in total
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bhartwell59
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 28, 2017 6:42 am    Post subject: Re: Brake Pedal Activated Brake Light Switch - Interest Survey Reply with quote

All for anything that helps the dipstick behind me realize I've stopped!

My autostick does a pretty good job of illuminating the brake lights... because of the constant in gear pressure.

But sooner AND more is better!
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goober
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 28, 2017 8:30 am    Post subject: Re: Brake Pedal Activated Brake Light Switch - Interest Survey Reply with quote

It's a good idea and I think you should develop it. I'm just not sure it would be right for me.

My brother, on his Bug, uses the OEM switch to activate a relay that works his brake lights. The cheap aftermarket switches do last a little longer. He's tried to convince me to do the same, but I'm lazy and I've resisted.

Right now, I get about 2 years or so on a cheap aftermarket switch. With my front fender setup, I can replace the OEM switch in less than 15 minutes without jacking up the car.

On the cheap aftermarket switches, I find the contacts usually go bad shortly after a couple of hard stops. They seldom leak when they do go bad, but then again, I replace them as soon as possible. But I have had bad switches leak in the past.

If I understand your setup correctly, your setup would keep the brake lights functioning but wouldn't address a bad/leaking OEM switch.

I suppose one could replace the switches on the master cylinder with plugs.
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 28, 2017 9:13 am    Post subject: Re: Brake Pedal Activated Brake Light Switch - Interest Survey Reply with quote

I would consider it for purchase if the price is right (apology to Monty Hall) I installed one in my 61 Bug about 35 years ago, but after I installed large rear window mounted brake lights, the current draw was too much. of course with todays led lamps that problem is no longer an issue.

adding a relay for the lamps will give a delay in lamp activation. so best bet is no relay.

what do you plan to offer?


nice idea. Ive been rear ended three times in total wrecks. gawd damned drivers and their cell phones, complex entertainment systems, and lack of attention. to heck with them all. had some bitch last month follow me at one car length in her 6000 lbs Tesla (which thru tax rebates I helped pay for) Im doing just over the speed limit (35 mph) and she sticks to my bumper like glue, three brake checks on the bitch before she got half a clue and backed off to two car lengths, she was pissed I slowed to a crawl, frickin clueless. one other time I came to complete stop on the freeway slow lane because some ass was riding my bumper. repeated brake checks did nothing. he finally went around me, frustrated as can be, and proceeded to tailgate some other hapless driver.
driving skills are near zero for many drivers boozos making left turns on three lane expressways, from the right lane, running red lights at busy intersections, or slowing down to half the speed limit cause they are texting. it is frickin dangerous. any reduction in brake light response time is a GREAT idea.

So what do you plan to offer???? I like the idea, lets see the execution!


Bug On, Bug Safe!
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 28, 2017 10:55 am    Post subject: Re: Brake Pedal Activated Brake Light Switch - Interest Survey Reply with quote

This is exactly what I had in mind. $7 for the switch and some wiring work. Good to go. Still works off the OE switches incase the mechanical one fails.

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PostPosted: Thu Dec 28, 2017 12:19 pm    Post subject: Re: Brake Pedal Activated Brake Light Switch - Interest Survey Reply with quote

bluebus86 wrote:

adding a relay for the lamps will give a delay in lamp activation. so best bet is no relay.


The time it takes for an electromechanical relay to switch on or off can be measured in milliseconds. The time it takes for a solid state relay can be measured in microseconds.

Humans would need to have incredibly fast reaction times in order for your point to have any relevance.
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 28, 2017 2:33 pm    Post subject: Re: Brake Pedal Activated Brake Light Switch - Interest Survey Reply with quote

Luft kühl wrote:
bluebus86 wrote:

adding a relay for the lamps will give a delay in lamp activation. so best bet is no relay.


The time it takes for an electromechanical relay to switch on or off can be measured in milliseconds. The time it takes for a solid state relay can be measured in microseconds.

Humans would need to have incredibly fast reaction times in order for your point to have any relevance.


At freeway speeds youd travel about a foot in 10 milliseconds. Id not want someone to stop a foot too late into the rear of my Bug.

Of course the reaction time of the human is not relevant to your point, a ten millisecond delay is a a foot of travel at freeway speed regardless of how fast the human reacts, as the human reaction wont start until the brake light is lit.

Good Luck Bug On
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 28, 2017 3:20 pm    Post subject: Re: Brake Pedal Activated Brake Light Switch - Interest Survey Reply with quote

bluebus86 wrote:

At freeway speeds youd travel about a foot in 10 milliseconds. Id not want someone to stop a foot too late into the rear of my Bug.


At 65 mph you will be traveling at 95.33 feet per second. This equals .00114
inches per millisecond.

So 10 milliseconds would equal .0114 inches, not quite the "about a foot" that you claim.
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 28, 2017 4:04 pm    Post subject: Re: Brake Pedal Activated Brake Light Switch - Interest Survey Reply with quote

The time it takes for an incandescent lamp to light is much greater than the time it takes a relay to switch. Good LED tail lights will save far more time than a relay will cost.

At 60 mph you are traveling 10-9/16 inches in 10 milliseconds. The fact that a mechanical switch can turn on before a pressure switch (it can be adjusted to switch before the bleeder port is even covered) means the extra time/distance is likely not a real problem. The slowest part of your brake lights is typically the time it takes for the incandescent bulb to light anyway. I'm using a mechanical brake light switch, with proper plugs in the no longer used ports on the master cylinder. I am not using a relay though.
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 28, 2017 6:21 pm    Post subject: Re: Brake Pedal Activated Brake Light Switch - Interest Survey Reply with quote

Luft kühl wrote:
bluebus86 wrote:

At freeway speeds youd travel about a foot in 10 milliseconds. Id not want someone to stop a foot too late into the rear of my Bug.


At 65 mph you will be traveling at 95.33 feet per second. This equals .00114
inches per millisecond.

So 10 milliseconds would equal .0114 inches, not quite the "about a foot" that you claim.


60 mph is a mile per minute or 5280 feet per minute, 88 feet per second. 10 milliseconds is 1/100th of a second, thus 0.88 feet, bump up the speed a bit more and you end up with one foot per second, just as I stated.

Your claim is incorrect.....0.0114 inch per 10 milliseconds is 1.14 inches per second, which is 68.4 inches per minute, which is 4104 inches per hour, not quite "65 mph" that you claim.



new math?

Keep Buggin, but please stay off the freeway with that speed of 4104 inches per hour.
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