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Our new beetle! Help!?
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phyregod
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 20, 2017 6:27 pm    Post subject: Our new beetle! Help!? Reply with quote

Hey everyone! We’re new to the world of classic VWs and we’ve just purchased a 1964 beetle.. my wife’s dream car for the past 30 years!

The engine is freshly rebuilt but the transmission looks like it hasn’t been touched. Ever. It’s bleeding from a few places. I’d love some help identifying what exactly they are, eapecially the transmission so I can start wrenching on it.

Engine code says H 0068580. From what i’ve read, this is a 66 type 2?
Transmission serial number is 7004967. Maybe a ‘60 beetle trans?
Is that correct?

Any info is appreciated! Thanks!
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 20, 2017 6:56 pm    Post subject: Re: Our new beetle! Help!? Reply with quote

Yeah, it looks like the engine is later, but the trans may be original. It looks to be about mid 64 from this page.

https://www.thesamba.com/vw/archives/info/bugchassisdating.php

Looks to be a great find!

Depending on where it's leaking from may determine the complexity of the resealing, and if you want to attempt it, or have a shop do it.
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Pruneman99
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 20, 2017 7:00 pm    Post subject: Re: Our new beetle! Help!? Reply with quote

Look under the technical section at the top of the page. You can look up #'s there.

But the better question is where did you get the wife? Mine puts up with my bug habit at best Crying or Very sad

Sometimes it gets difficult to explain why my old cars occupy the garage while her new car says outside on the driveway.
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phyregod
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 20, 2017 7:12 pm    Post subject: Re: Our new beetle! Help!? Reply with quote

As far as I can tell, the transmission is leaking from everywhere it can leak from, and has been for many years. I plan to pull it and toss a gasket kit at it.. possibly synchros, too. I did read the charts and best I can tell the transmission is september 1960? But that chart makes me cross-eyed. I could be nuts. The "A (B)" part throws me off. I have no A or B suffix. Just a number. Am I reading it right?

As for the garage.. I have a pair of Honda CRXs in there. 90 and 91, both Si. Honda CRX guy at heart. The Excursion and the BMW sleep outside.. Very Happy

Looks like the 90 si may be headed to a new home to make room for the beetle, though. I can't let that car sleep outside for long.
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 20, 2017 7:48 pm    Post subject: Re: Our new beetle! Help!? Reply with quote

My understanding of the chart is to disregaurd the "A (B)", and go by the number. I can't remember if the number is the start, or end of production. July of 64 was 6 963 436, and August was 7 051 272, so you're somewhere in between.

If it's literally leaking everywhere, I would look into a shop that does Aircooled Beetle transaxles, and have them go through it. There are quite a few special tools required to rebuild a transaxle that makes just rebuilding one not very economically feasible. If it is the original 64 trans, there are certain components, like certain syncros, that are no longer readily available new. There are modern counterparts that can be retrofitted, but knowing what they are, and having access to them is easier left to a knowledgeable shop.
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Jody '71
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 20, 2017 8:33 pm    Post subject: Re: Our new beetle! Help!? Reply with quote

There's a nice cross section pic of the transmission in the owner's manual for '64 Beetle available in "Technical" above. In fact, if you don't have the original owner's manual, spend some time and look at each page. Post some nice pics of the engine if you can, underneath as well....
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phyregod
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 20, 2017 8:58 pm    Post subject: Re: Our new beetle! Help!? Reply with quote

I have the factory service manual.. Transmissions don’t scare me. I just need to know exactly what it is so I can order parts and get crackin’!
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Pruneman99
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 20, 2017 9:22 pm    Post subject: Re: Our new beetle! Help!? Reply with quote

This?

http://www.jbugs.com/product/98-2077.html
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 21, 2017 3:55 am    Post subject: Re: Our new beetle! Help!? Reply with quote

phyregod wrote:
I have the factory service manual.. Transmissions don’t scare me. I just need to know exactly what it is so I can order parts and get crackin’!


Counting the used $200 press I found that are now around $675 new, I have about $1200 in the tools I use to rebuild transaxles. Sure, this is for every manual transaxle VW made from 61 till about the mid 80's, and there have been many that have half assed them together with less. If you want to spend the time gathering/making the tools, and tearing down core transaxles/searching the classifieds for NOS replacement parts that are NLA for a job you should be able to get done 100% correctly at a shop for less than $500, have at it. These two manuals will show you the tools needed.

http://www.bentleypublishers.com/volkswagen/repair-information/vw-type-1-61-65-repair-manual.html

http://www.bentleypublishers.com/volkswagen/repair...anual.html

These guys can get you any parts that are available. https://weddleindustries.com

"tossing a gasket set, and syncros at it" is about the equivalent of COMPLETELY disassembling an engine to reseal it, and replacing the rod bearings. After 53 years, there WILL be other items needing replaced. I applaud your ambition, but greatly discourage your plans for something your wife is going to be driving around in. If you have to take it apart, buy an outright swing axle trans with either an equivalent 4.37 r&p, or a little higher 4.12 to go with the larger engine, and install your axles on the rebuilt trans. That way, your swap could be done in a weekend, and she will be driving while you can be tinkering. Like Pruneman99 has already mentioned, you have found a wife that actually WANTS a classic VW, not one that "tolerates" one.. Having the thing torn apart laying around the garage for weeks at a time is a real good way to turn a positive situation into a negative one. Good luck!
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gt1953
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 21, 2017 8:36 am    Post subject: Re: Our new beetle! Help!? Reply with quote

Like mentioned above let the professional shop go through the transmission. Like mentioned some special tools are required for the trans to be correct. Plus a shop will or at least should give you a warranty. I too have heard that the early trans parts are drying up.
What part of Texas as it is over 268 thousand square miles and like a whole nother country.
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phyregod
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 21, 2017 8:53 am    Post subject: Re: Our new beetle! Help!? Reply with quote

We’re in Brownwood, TX. Right in the center. Anyone recommend a shop?

Also, what do I look for to purchase a 4.12 geared trans? What did it come out of? I like the idea of better gearing, but they’re All old.. swapping old for old doesn’t seem to help much. I see rebuilt units for $900-1500.. that’s way over budget.

I am very much a do it yourselfer. My passion is in Honda CRXs, and i’ve Rebuilt a few Honda motors and transmissions myself. So a ‘64 beetle trans.. to quote Jeremy Clarkson.. “How hard could it be?” Laughing
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marklee
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 21, 2017 9:28 am    Post subject: Re: Our new beetle! Help!? Reply with quote

phyregod wrote:
We’re in Brownwood, TX. Right in the center. Anyone recommend a shop?

Also, what do I look for to purchase a 4.12 geared trans? What did it come out of? I like the idea of better gearing, but they’re All old.. swapping old for old doesn’t seem to help much. I see rebuilt units for $900-1500.. that’s way over budget.

I am very much a do it yourselfer. My passion is in Honda CRXs, and i’ve Rebuilt a few Honda motors and transmissions myself. So a ‘64 beetle trans.. to quote Jeremy Clarkson.. “How hard could it be?” Laughing


to rebuild a VW transmission you will need special tools the like of which you will never had heard of, deep pockets and to have had lots of practice....
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 21, 2017 10:56 am    Post subject: Re: Our new beetle! Help!? Reply with quote

Quote:
I am very much a do it yourselfer. My passion is in Honda CRXs, and i’ve Rebuilt a few Honda motors and transmissions myself. So a ‘64 beetle trans.. to quote Jeremy Clarkson.. “How hard could it be?”


The Samba veterans will usually be the first to tell you that if you can't fix one of these cars yourself, you shouldn't own one. but, this is one of those rare cases where they are telling you to leave this job to the pros. You should listen to them! There will be PLENTY of other opportunities for you to wrench on this car.

Good luck and welcome to The Samba!
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MMW
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 21, 2017 11:59 am    Post subject: Re: Our new beetle! Help!? Reply with quote

Before you tear into it why not give the underneath including the trans a deep clean, drain and refill the trans with the proper oil and drive it for a while? The leaks may look worse than they are if it hasn't been cleaned in decades. Of course if there are shifting issues then the above is not recommended.
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phyregod
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 21, 2017 1:06 pm    Post subject: Re: Our new beetle! Help!? Reply with quote

I believe the input shaft seal is leaking quite badly. Both drain plugs are leaking and it appears that there is another leak up by the shifter. Driving at parking lot speed it leaves a dribble of about 1 drop every 2 inches, when parked it leaves a 10 inch puddle, but stops leaking after it’s cooled off.. or after all the residual oil drips off.. there is a quarter inch of old hard black sludge all over the trans.. I could power wash what I can and see where I end up.

The two plugs in the bottom.. do I just torque them down to stop the leaking? Teflon tape? I haven’t pulled them to look quite yet. But the oil coming out is pretty black. If it’s the input shaft seal that means the clutch is covered in oil as well.. something that needs to be addressed.

All of this combined makes me want to pull it apart and fix it. I’m a bit of a perfectionist and solidly addicted to tinkering.
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pbenn
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 21, 2017 1:36 pm    Post subject: Re: Our new beetle! Help!? Reply with quote

Yes, everybody's right. Even spending $1000 - 1200 on a new swingaxle trans with options like 3:88 r&p you will be ahead.

While you have the motor out and the trans pulled, replace your trans mounts while it's easier. Mark your axle locations on your trailing arms with a chisel.

While you are waiting, check shifter bushings while the shift rod is disconnected.

Now also look to see if any leaks are coming from your motor while you have that opportunity.

If there is wear in your axle splines where they fit into the drums, this is the perfect time to get better axles/drums.

There are a number of transmission professionals in the southern US, maybe check Samba's banner ads. My trans (Mex swing 3:8Cool came from Trans-Form but they might have changed business names since the '90s.
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 21, 2017 2:27 pm    Post subject: Re: Our new beetle! Help!? Reply with quote

There are laundry lists of what you do when you yank the engine on here. X 20 on just getting a rebuilt tranny. Didnt really pay attention to what engine you have, but if its at least a 1300 and up, go with a later model gear set so you are maxed out at 65 MPH. But you need enough engine to push it...doesnt need a lot though...45 or so HP is plenty.

And most likely you will have the tranny shipped, so it doesnt really matter where it comes from. I have been using Mofoco lately with good success. But also have a Rancho in one of my cars and the VW store in St Johns PA did a couple for me as well.

Plan on new axle bearings and all that while you are doing it.

Welcome and have fun.
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 21, 2017 3:39 pm    Post subject: Re: Our new beetle! Help!? Reply with quote

MMW wrote:
Before you tear into it why not give the underneath including the trans a deep clean, drain and refill the trans with the proper oil and drive it for a while? The leaks may look worse than they are if it hasn't been cleaned in decades.


Best advice yet as long as they are seepage type leaks that amount to little or nothing dripping on the ground.
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phyregod
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 21, 2017 3:47 pm    Post subject: Re: Our new beetle! Help!? Reply with quote

Quote:
Best advice yet as long as they are seepage type leaks that amount to little or nothing dripping on the ground.


It’s leaking all over the ground. A lot.
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57BLITZ
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 21, 2017 4:29 pm    Post subject: Re: Our new beetle! Help!? Reply with quote

phyregod wrote:

It’s leaking all over the ground. A lot.

It must be 'bout empty by now!


Find the leak(s) by first cleaning it real good.
Axle boots and rear wheel bearing seals will be the most common areas where you will find a leak. Replacement can be done easily "in car".
Replacing a nosecone gasket is a piece of cake when the transaxle is out of the car.
The drain/fill plugs are tapered threads . . . too tight can be flirtin' with disaster.

FWIW . . . like some of the other folks are tellin' ya . . . if the transaxle needs syncros . . . . pops out of gear . . . makes unpleasant noises . . . give it to a pro!
I have been into Bugs for a loooooong time . . . tore 'em down to the last nut & bolt, then put 'em back together again . . . built a bunch of engines, welded floor pans and body repair sections, rebuilt front axle beams . . . everything! EXCEPT . . . I have my transaxles rebuilt by a pro!

BTW . . . welcome to the Samba forum! And, congrats on the Bug . . . looks real nice!
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