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Hybrid VW
Samba Member
Joined: May 03, 2014
Posts: 128
Location: Central Oregon
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 Posted: Sat Nov 11, 2017 11:23 am Post subject: Re: Engine shutting off while driving- '87 2.1 auto |
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| Hybrid VW wrote: |
I jumped 30 and 87 on the fuel pump relay, and the pump ran strong for 5 minutes, then I started the engine, and it ran for about 3 minutes, somewhat rough at first, like it was flooded or something, but after a little bit holding it at 1500 rpm or so, it idled at 750-800 (idle control valve is unplugged). Just about the time I was going to back out of the garage, it died. I got about 3 unsuccessful restart attempts in before the battery said no more.
I've got it on the charger, and will try some more tomorrow evening or Saturday.
Thanks everyone! |
Just did some more of Mark's tests, starting from scratch, but only let the pump run 2-3 minutes before starting the engine. The engine started rough, like it was running on 3 cylinders initially then smoothed out and got a good idle. It ran for about 3 minutes before shutting off, fuel pump still running (relay bypassed). Didn't want to start again.
Plugged the fuel pump relay back in, and bypassed the ECU relay, but didn't hear any buzzing or the pump priming. Turned on the key, still no pump. Put the ECU relay back in, turned the key, pump primed, engine started reluctantly and took work with the gas pedal to keep it running- VERY rich. After about a minute, it didn't want to run any longer.
Interestingly, after being on the battery tender since Thursday, it was still showing the red charging LED. the battery showed 12.68 volts, alone, 12.8 on the tender, and 14 with the engine running, which of course is pretty normal.
Going to pull the distributor cap and plugs next, and look for any damaged wires in the wiring harness. |
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Hybrid VW
Samba Member
Joined: May 03, 2014
Posts: 128
Location: Central Oregon
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| Posted: Tue Nov 14, 2017 1:35 pm Post subject: Re: Engine shutting off while driving- '87 2.1 auto |
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Cap and rotor looked fine, plugs black from running rich, nothing visible with any wires.
Unplugged O2 sensor, van quit once, then I was able to drive it a few miles, and it continued to idle for a few minutes afterward before shutting it off. 1/2 hour or so later, tried to drive it again, hard initial start, then died again about 100' out of the driveway. Going to get another jumper wire and jump the fuel pump and ECU relays at the same time... |
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tjet 
Samba Member
Joined: June 10, 2014
Posts: 3533
Location: CA & NM
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| Posted: Tue Nov 14, 2017 2:24 pm Post subject: Re: Engine shutting off while driving- '87 2.1 auto |
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| Bassyaks wrote: |
| Make sure the positive wire coming off the alternator is in good shape, if that breaks contact the fuel pump will lose power, note if the dash/tach goes dead when this happens. |
This is what fixed my random shut off issue. |
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crazyvwvanman
Samba Member
Joined: January 28, 2008
Posts: 9923
Location: Orbiting San Diego
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| Posted: Tue Nov 14, 2017 5:40 pm Post subject: Re: Engine shutting off while driving- '87 2.1 auto |
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Years ago I posted here about a simple home built tool to deal with problems like this, and hopefully narrow things down without needless parts swapping.
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=349429
Mark |
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Hybrid VW
Samba Member
Joined: May 03, 2014
Posts: 128
Location: Central Oregon
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| Posted: Wed Nov 15, 2017 1:06 pm Post subject: Re: Engine shutting off while driving- '87 2.1 auto |
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| tjet wrote: |
| Bassyaks wrote: |
| Make sure the positive wire coming off the alternator is in good shape, if that breaks contact the fuel pump will lose power, note if the dash/tach goes dead when this happens. |
This is what fixed my random shut off issue. |
I installed the GoWesty alternator harness earlier this year, so hopefully that's eliminated.
Thanks for the link Mark, I'll try that harness this weekend. |
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Bassyaks
Samba Member
Joined: October 06, 2010
Posts: 1137
Location: S.E. Connetitcut
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| Posted: Wed Nov 15, 2017 2:27 pm Post subject: Re: Engine shutting off while driving- '87 2.1 auto |
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| The wire frays inside the insulation, you may not see it, wiggle it for the hell of it. |
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crazyvwvanman
Samba Member
Joined: January 28, 2008
Posts: 9923
Location: Orbiting San Diego
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| Posted: Wed Nov 15, 2017 3:09 pm Post subject: Re: Engine shutting off while driving- '87 2.1 auto |
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The original alternator harness is a weak spot after all these years so replacing it is a good move. But the new harness could still be related to the problem, for example if it wasn't tight enough at the stud in the engine compartment wiring box or at the starter motor wiring stud.
The purpose of the bypass tool is to bypass a bunch of known wiring and connection related problems all at once. This is to see if that bypasses the symptoms. If it does, then you try the individual legs of the bypass tool to narrow things down to help find the exact fault.
Mark
| Hybrid VW wrote: |
....
I installed the GoWesty alternator harness earlier this year, so hopefully that's eliminated.... |
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Hybrid VW
Samba Member
Joined: May 03, 2014
Posts: 128
Location: Central Oregon
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| Posted: Sat Nov 18, 2017 2:16 pm Post subject: Re: Engine shutting off while driving- '87 2.1 auto |
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Bypass harness made and installed, symptoms still persist. Drove it about a mile and a half, one stumble. Shut it off, took a while to start. Rich smell coming from the exhaust before it finally started. Quit again (hard shut off) on the way back.
Leaning towards a bad distributor? |
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Tom Powell
Samba Member
Joined: December 01, 2005
Posts: 4855
Location: Kaneohe
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| Posted: Sat Nov 18, 2017 2:18 pm Post subject: Re: Engine shutting off while driving- '87 2.1 auto |
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exercise the three wire connetcion at the distributor
Aloha
tp |
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Hybrid VW
Samba Member
Joined: May 03, 2014
Posts: 128
Location: Central Oregon
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| Posted: Sun Nov 19, 2017 8:27 pm Post subject: Re: Engine shutting off while driving- '87 2.1 auto |
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Hall sender plug is solid- not a hiccup from trying to move it while the van was running.
It was warmer today, and I was about to put a few miles on it and multiple restarts without issue. Before I got it out of the garage though, it did die twice, only the second time was difficult to start. I had a timing light hooked up, and I'm not getting any/consistent spark when it doesn't want to start. This was with the jumper harness installed.
Still need to read up in the Bentley, but I'm reasonably sure I need a new distributor. I'll test the hall sender as outlined in a video posted elsewhere, but since the distributor from Van Cafe and the hall sender from go Westy are about the same price, I might as well get the distributor... |
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djkeev
Samba Moderator
Joined: September 30, 2007
Posts: 32584
Location: Reading Pennsylvania
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Hybrid VW
Samba Member
Joined: May 03, 2014
Posts: 128
Location: Central Oregon
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| Posted: Tue Nov 21, 2017 11:59 am Post subject: Re: Engine shutting off while driving- '87 2.1 auto |
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Thanks Dave,
Checked the coil and plug wires last night. Got a good reading for the primary resistance on the coil, nothing for secondary. But also got nothing (continuity or resistance) for the coil wire or one of the plug wires.
Thanks for the help everyone, I have a lot of stuff going on right now, and didn't really need this added to my list  |
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Hybrid VW
Samba Member
Joined: May 03, 2014
Posts: 128
Location: Central Oregon
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| Posted: Sun Dec 03, 2017 11:27 am Post subject: Re: Engine shutting off while driving- '87 2.1 auto |
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And the saga continues...
After getting a new coil and wires, I realize that my Fluke 7-600 only reads up to 400 ohms. Get a new VOM, and my old coil tests good, as do the wires. So I order and install a new hall sender. Van fires right up, and within minutes is back to the same tricks- sometimes a quick shutoff, other times more of a gradual death that you can keep on life support with the throttle, but it eventually dies. Upon trying to restart it, sometimes the fuel pump turns on, but there's inconsistent spark, other times the fuel pump doesn't even turn on.
With the jumper harness installed, the fuel pump runs, but the spark is inconsistent, preventing it from starting. I'm really starting to think it's the ECU... |
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Tom Powell
Samba Member
Joined: December 01, 2005
Posts: 4855
Location: Kaneohe
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| Posted: Sun Dec 03, 2017 12:45 pm Post subject: Re: Engine shutting off while driving- '87 2.1 auto |
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| Hybrid VW wrote: |
| And the saga continues ... I'm really starting to think it's the ECU... |
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Hybrid VW
Samba Member
Joined: May 03, 2014
Posts: 128
Location: Central Oregon
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| Posted: Sun Dec 03, 2017 4:54 pm Post subject: Re: Engine shutting off while driving- '87 2.1 auto |
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I appreciate the tip Tom, but I have a hard time swallowing $500 for a tool. Even if I throw $500 of parts at the problem before solving it, at least I know I have good parts in place down the road.
Eugene is a 140 mile tow from me. If/when I throw in the towel, I'll have it towed 20 miles to Young's Ole Volks Home in Bend  |
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Tom Powell
Samba Member
Joined: December 01, 2005
Posts: 4855
Location: Kaneohe
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| Posted: Mon Dec 04, 2017 6:36 pm Post subject: Re: Engine shutting off while driving- '87 2.1 auto |
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My problem was the ECU. The digitool wired ECU itself solved the problem and I replaced that with an ECU from the classifieds. I still have the digitool ECU monitor and the ECU wired for it and it has identified other problems with my SoCal Vangon. In reality the digitool did not identify the problem, but the wired ECU solved it.
$500 will buy a lot of parts to throw at the problem, but there is no guarantee that new parts will be good out of the box.
Beg, borrow, or buy an ECU and give that a shot. Keep it as a spare or resell it if it doesn't solve the problem.
Aloha
tp |
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Hybrid VW
Samba Member
Joined: May 03, 2014
Posts: 128
Location: Central Oregon
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| Posted: Sun Dec 10, 2017 3:03 pm Post subject: Re: Engine shutting off while driving- '87 2.1 auto |
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So it turned out it was the ECU. Got a rebuilt unit from Van Cafe and installed it second thing yesterday morning. First thing I did was reinstall the original unit- I guess I wasn't awake yet 
Van is running great now and restarting better than it has in quite some time. Glad this is off my plate now! |
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djkeev
Samba Moderator
Joined: September 30, 2007
Posts: 32584
Location: Reading Pennsylvania
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Tom Powell
Samba Member
Joined: December 01, 2005
Posts: 4855
Location: Kaneohe
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| Posted: Sun Dec 10, 2017 5:15 pm Post subject: Re: Engine shutting off while driving- '87 2.1 auto |
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ITYS! BTDT
My suggestion for the defunct ECU which is of no value to you:
Send it to Van Cafe or Jim Schumacher and they can repair and repurpose it for the Digitool.
Aloha
tp |
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Hybrid VW
Samba Member
Joined: May 03, 2014
Posts: 128
Location: Central Oregon
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| Posted: Mon Dec 11, 2017 11:45 am Post subject: Re: Engine shutting off while driving- '87 2.1 auto |
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Yeah, the old one is getting returned to Van Cafe for the core charge.
Are the rebuilt units more robust than the originals, or just refreshed and expected to fail again at some point in the future? |
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