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bug me
Samba Member
Joined: September 18, 2010
Posts: 57
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 Posted: Tue Nov 21, 2017 5:04 pm Post subject: more hp |
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| I'm thinking of getting a different motor for my 64 I want to get something with a sizeable horsepower increase. I also want it to be reliable, I drive the car almost every day during the summer . any suggestions on a good turn key motor and what should be avoided . thanks |
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Cusser
Samba Member
Joined: October 02, 2006
Posts: 31362
Location: Hot Arizona
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| Posted: Tue Nov 21, 2017 5:06 pm Post subject: Re: more hp |
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If you have the 1964 1200cc engine, a good choice would be a 1600cc engine. Might be a good time to upgrade to 12 volts if not already.
_________________
1970 VW (owned since 1972) and 1971 VW Convertible (owned since 1976), second owner of each. The '71 now has the 1835 engine, swapped from the '70. Second owner of each. 1988 Mazda B2200 truck, 1998 Frontier, 2014 Yukon, 2004 Frontier King Cab. All manual transmission except for the Yukon. http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/album_page.php?pic_id=335294 http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/album_page.php?pic_id=335297 |
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my59
Samba Member
Joined: August 13, 2003
Posts: 3791
Location: connecting the dots
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| Posted: Tue Nov 21, 2017 5:15 pm Post subject: Re: more hp |
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Speed costs. How fast do you want to go? How fast do you want to stop?
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my59: Well son, my grandfather died before I got to drive it, so does that answer your question?
our79: sunroof bus w/camper interior and 2.0 FI
Other:'12 Jetta, '77 Benz 300D, and a 74 MG Midget. |
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Glenn 
Mr. 010
Joined: December 25, 2001
Posts: 76907
Location: Sneaking up behind you
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| Posted: Tue Nov 21, 2017 5:21 pm Post subject: Re: more hp |
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I put over 100,000 miles on a 1776 and drove it daily. It had about 95hp.
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Glenn
74 Beetle Specs | 74 Beetle Restoration | 2180cc Engine
"You may not get what you pay for, but you always pay for what you get"
Member #1009
#BlueSquare |
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bug me
Samba Member
Joined: September 18, 2010
Posts: 57
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| Posted: Tue Nov 21, 2017 5:22 pm Post subject: Re: more hp |
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| my 64 has been switched over to a 12 volt system and about 5 yrs. ago I replaced the tired 1200cc with a used 1600 from a 1972 bug. Now I want more power. but reliability is very important. |
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Glenn
Mr. 010
Joined: December 25, 2001
Posts: 76907
Location: Sneaking up behind you
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| Posted: Tue Nov 21, 2017 5:25 pm Post subject: Re: more hp |
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My engine was very reliable.
_________________
Glenn
74 Beetle Specs | 74 Beetle Restoration | 2180cc Engine
"You may not get what you pay for, but you always pay for what you get"
Member #1009
#BlueSquare |
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Zundfolge1432
Samba Member
Joined: June 13, 2004
Posts: 12467
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| Posted: Tue Nov 21, 2017 6:01 pm Post subject: Re: more hp |
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| Something tells me he ain’t gonna pony up and build a Gene Berg engine. Just sayin. |
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Zundfolge1432
Samba Member
Joined: June 13, 2004
Posts: 12467
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| Posted: Tue Nov 21, 2017 6:06 pm Post subject: Re: more hp |
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| bug me wrote: |
| I'm thinking of getting a different motor for my 64 I want to get something with a sizeable horsepower increase. I also want it to be reliable, I drive the car almost every day during the summer . any suggestions on a good turn key motor and what should be avoided . thanks |
Yes GEX engines don’t have a real good record here, you might wanna cross them off your short list.  |
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bug me
Samba Member
Joined: September 18, 2010
Posts: 57
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| Posted: Tue Nov 21, 2017 7:10 pm Post subject: Re: more hp |
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| Does someone have a suggestion for a well made turn key engine?. I'm not familiar with Berg I have heard of gex my budget is around 4k complete. Is it possible? ? |
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Glenn
Mr. 010
Joined: December 25, 2001
Posts: 76907
Location: Sneaking up behind you
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| Posted: Tue Nov 21, 2017 7:22 pm Post subject: Re: more hp |
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| bug me wrote: |
| Does someone have a suggestion for a well made turn key engine?. I'm not familiar with Berg I have heard of gex my budget is around 4k complete. Is it possible? ? |
CHEAP - FAST - RELIABLE
Looks like you picked cheap and reliable, so forget fast.
Honestly, you're not going to find a well built turn key performance engine for $4000.
Dual carbs along are going to cost $700, heads are $600, case $800 and $350 for crank and flywheel. Then there's the rest of the parts and shipping.
_________________
Glenn
74 Beetle Specs | 74 Beetle Restoration | 2180cc Engine
"You may not get what you pay for, but you always pay for what you get"
Member #1009
#BlueSquare |
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Cusser
Samba Member
Joined: October 02, 2006
Posts: 31362
Location: Hot Arizona
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| Posted: Tue Nov 21, 2017 7:40 pm Post subject: Re: more hp |
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| Glenn wrote: |
| I put over 100,000 miles on a 1776 and drove it daily. It had about 95hp. |
I put over 150,000 miles on an 1835cc and drove it daily, in Arizona, using dealer-installed AC system in my 1970. I figure mine had 85hp as heads were not done, had stock cam, single Weber carb, CB Maxi2 oil pump/filter.
| Glenn wrote: |
| My engine was very reliable. |
As is mine, still running, last apart in 1986, but now in my 1971 - one reason I haven't taken the engine apart to pretty it up. The AC stayed with my 1970.
_________________
1970 VW (owned since 1972) and 1971 VW Convertible (owned since 1976), second owner of each. The '71 now has the 1835 engine, swapped from the '70. Second owner of each. 1988 Mazda B2200 truck, 1998 Frontier, 2014 Yukon, 2004 Frontier King Cab. All manual transmission except for the Yukon. http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/album_page.php?pic_id=335294 http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/album_page.php?pic_id=335297 |
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Zundfolge1432
Samba Member
Joined: June 13, 2004
Posts: 12467
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| Posted: Wed Nov 22, 2017 6:10 am Post subject: Re: more hp |
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| bug me wrote: |
| Does someone have a suggestion for a well made turn key engine?. I'm not familiar with Berg I have heard of gex my budget is around 4k complete. Is it possible? ? |
The only way 4 grand would work?? Haunt all the swap meets, buy good used and be able to call in a few favors, brother in law deals. Then you do all or most of the assembly yourself. Stock engine turnkey engines are in the neighborhood of 4 grand now. I don't see how the figure you've provided is realistic today. |
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gt1953
Samba Member
Joined: May 08, 2002
Posts: 13848
Location: White Mountains Arizona
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| Posted: Wed Nov 22, 2017 6:45 am Post subject: Re: more hp |
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Not sure what part of the world you live. Shop around you could do it for under 4K. Still have realiablity too.
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Volkswagen: We tune what we drive.
Numbers Matching VW's are getting harder to find. Source out the most Stock vehicle and keep that way. You will be glad you did.
72 type 1
72 Squareback
({59 Euro bug, 62, 63, 67, 68, 69, 73 type ones 68 & 69 type two, 68 Ghia all sold}) |
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empi3
Samba Member
Joined: October 03, 2015
Posts: 347
Location: SW Wyoming
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| Posted: Wed Nov 22, 2017 7:02 am Post subject: Re: more hp |
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You might want to add Aircooled.net to your list of possible candidates.
http://vwparts.aircooled.net/VW-Longblocks-s/78.htm
Steven
PS don't forget shipping costs.
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The fact someone posts a thousand messages a month does not mean the messages contain anything worth reading.
Bob Hoover
1970 Beetle
1956 Ragtop Beetle |
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Zundfolge1432
Samba Member
Joined: June 13, 2004
Posts: 12467
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| Posted: Wed Nov 22, 2017 7:05 am Post subject: Re: more hp |
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| gt1953 wrote: |
| Not sure what part of the world you live. Shop around you could do it for under 4K. Still have realiablity too. |
This same question comes up on the performance forum on a regular basis. No way can you build anything using quality parts for that price then add in labor to build it? Good luck. |
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Glenn
Mr. 010
Joined: December 25, 2001
Posts: 76907
Location: Sneaking up behind you
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| Posted: Wed Nov 22, 2017 7:07 am Post subject: Re: more hp |
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I just built a 1914 and have over $5000 in parts alone. That doesn't include machining, labor and the core engine. It's overbuilt and should be very reliable.
_________________
Glenn
74 Beetle Specs | 74 Beetle Restoration | 2180cc Engine
"You may not get what you pay for, but you always pay for what you get"
Member #1009
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calvinater
Samba Member
Joined: September 06, 2014
Posts: 3328
Location: 802 The Pointless Forrest
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| Posted: Wed Nov 22, 2017 7:21 am Post subject: Re: more hp |
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glenn, can you list the specs on that engine?
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"Albatross"! |
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Zundfolge1432
Samba Member
Joined: June 13, 2004
Posts: 12467
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| Posted: Wed Nov 22, 2017 7:24 am Post subject: Re: more hp |
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| A/C . Net 2180 Looks like upwards of 4800 just for long block, now add in all the accessories, carbs,dyno time, further assembly labor charges probably another 2 grand minimum. There is no free lunch and it's not 1987, those days and prices are gone. 😐 |
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Glenn
Mr. 010
Joined: December 25, 2001
Posts: 76907
Location: Sneaking up behind you
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| Posted: Wed Nov 22, 2017 8:17 am Post subject: Re: more hp |
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| calvinater wrote: |
| glenn, can you list the specs on that engine? |
94x69=1914
CW crank forged
12lb forged flywheel
5.4 H Beam rods
CB 2242 cam
Panchito 044 heads 40x35.5
CB ported intake manifolds
Dual Weber IDFs
KEP Stage 1 pressure plate
1.5qt deep sump
1.5" heater boxes
Vintage Speed muffler
Pertronix billet distributor
Bosch Blue coil
MST Serp Belt
_________________
Glenn
74 Beetle Specs | 74 Beetle Restoration | 2180cc Engine
"You may not get what you pay for, but you always pay for what you get"
Member #1009
#BlueSquare |
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rcooled
Samba Member
Joined: September 20, 2008
Posts: 2504
Location: Santa Cruz, CA
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| Posted: Wed Nov 22, 2017 1:01 pm Post subject: Re: more hp |
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If you rebuild your current motor, increase the displacement to 1776cc, and assemble it yourself, you should be able to stick pretty close to your budget. That assumes your case is usable and you already have dual-port heads that can be rebuilt. Even if you need to get a pair new stock D/P heads, you should still come in pretty close to $4K.
This motor will have a welded, counter-weighted 69mm crank & lightened flywheel (from DPR Machine or equiv.), rebuilt stock rods, hotter cam (Engle 100 or equiv.), new lifters, solid rocker shafts, heavy-duty single valve springs, heavy-duty push rods, CB Maxi2 filter pump, dual Kadron carbs (available used from the classifieds here or at a swap meet for under $300), a rebuilt Bosch 019 distributor and a single quiet-pack extractor exhaust.
This pencils out to around $2.7K in parts ($3.2K if you need new heads) and around $750 in shop labor and includes miscellaneous stuff like a new stock clutch & pressure plate, bearings, hardware, gaskets, etc. You'll still need to add in shipping costs for anything you buy on-line and maybe some sales tax depending on where you live. If you don't already have a doghouse oil cooler setup, it'll be another couple hundred in parts for the cooler, adapter and related tin.
Now this won't be some trick, top-of-the-line motor like Glenn built but it'll be a nice little street motor that'll provide a very noticeable bump in performance over a stock 1600. It should be reliable too...if you take proper care with the build and drive sensibly once you're back on the road.
Lots of suppliers are having sales for the holidays...good time to buy parts!
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'63 Ragtop (current)
'65 Ghia coupe (totaled)
'67 Ghia convertible (current)
'69.5 Ghia convertible and
'62, '63, '65, '69 Bugs (all long gone) |
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