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DavidWymore Samba Member
Joined: November 30, 2014 Posts: 121 Location: SoCal near Glamis
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Posted: Thu Nov 23, 2017 12:36 pm Post subject: Pertronix breakup? |
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Hi...I posted on my thread in HBB but thought I'd post here too for more exposure, hope that's OK.
I took the buggy out for the first run of the season a few weeks ago. Ran good but brakes faded away. Busy with the Dodge and the Deuce and a half so I took it to the local VW guy. He found a leaky brake line. Brakes work great now. While it was there, he also installed a relay kit for the starter, cleaned up some wiring, added some grounds, stuff I'd been meaning to do.
ISSUE : Also installed Pertonix kit and 3.0 ohm Flamethrower coil. Now it pops, cracks, breaks up, blows black smoke once the RPMs get up a little, load or not. New plugs, new coil wire cuz I had one laying around.
12.83volts to coil.
New distributor. Maybe wires, they are of unknown age and have been in the sun too much...but it was fine before the Pertronix.
009 and Progressive DGAV
Completely disassembled the carb and cleaned last night.
Hoping to get it going for Thanksgiving...need to dig up a set of points....#1 mechanic's rule, always check/change the last thing you changed... |
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heimlich VWNOS.com
Joined: November 20, 2016 Posts: 6558 Location: Houston, Texas
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Posted: Thu Nov 23, 2017 3:19 pm Post subject: Re: Pertronix breakup? |
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Do you have a pertronix 009 as well? You mention points. Are you using points or electronic ignition?
I'd start by checking the exhaust for leaks, the carb, and then the timing. _________________ www.vwnos.com [email protected]
Classic Brands. Classic Quality.
Not all parts are made the same. NOS OE/OEM parts made mainly in West Germany, Early Germany, and Early Brazil are where VW produced the best quality parts and best fitting products.
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RailBoy Samba Member
Joined: March 10, 2008 Posts: 2904 Location: Virginia
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Posted: Thu Nov 23, 2017 3:21 pm Post subject: Re: Pertronix breakup? |
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This is just FYI, I did a bunch of ignition stuff including plugs and to find out I had one brand new plug that was bad, messed up the whole engine and me,lol.. RB _________________ [quote="smitty24"]"HELP, I ported my own heads and now have fire coming out my ass" .[/quote]
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heimlich VWNOS.com
Joined: November 20, 2016 Posts: 6558 Location: Houston, Texas
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Posted: Thu Nov 23, 2017 3:27 pm Post subject: Re: Pertronix breakup? |
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I had something similar happen recently. I am still diagnosing. So far I've found a bad condenser, fouled plugs, leak in the exhaust, timing was off and I am still hunting.
You also need to check your rotor and cap. _________________ www.vwnos.com [email protected]
Classic Brands. Classic Quality.
Not all parts are made the same. NOS OE/OEM parts made mainly in West Germany, Early Germany, and Early Brazil are where VW produced the best quality parts and best fitting products.
5% Off your order with coupon code: 5%OFF
Restored Distributors Available (<--Click here) |
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Glenn Mr. 010
Joined: December 25, 2001 Posts: 76760 Location: Sneaking up behind you
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Posted: Thu Nov 23, 2017 5:18 pm Post subject: Re: Pertronix breakup? |
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kawfee wrote: |
I had something similar happen recently. I am still diagnosing. So far I've found a bad condenser, fouled plugs, leak in the exhaust, timing was off and I am still hunting.
You also need to check your rotor and cap. |
It's safe to assume he has a Pertronix module if not a complete distributor. _________________ Glenn
74 Beetle Specs | 74 Beetle Restoration | 2180cc Engine
"You may not get what you pay for, but you always pay for what you get"
Member #1009
#BlueSquare |
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heimlich VWNOS.com
Joined: November 20, 2016 Posts: 6558 Location: Houston, Texas
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Posted: Thu Nov 23, 2017 5:26 pm Post subject: Re: Pertronix breakup? |
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He wrote points which didn't jive.
I still need clarification. _________________ www.vwnos.com [email protected]
Classic Brands. Classic Quality.
Not all parts are made the same. NOS OE/OEM parts made mainly in West Germany, Early Germany, and Early Brazil are where VW produced the best quality parts and best fitting products.
5% Off your order with coupon code: 5%OFF
Restored Distributors Available (<--Click here) |
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Glenn Mr. 010
Joined: December 25, 2001 Posts: 76760 Location: Sneaking up behind you
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Posted: Thu Nov 23, 2017 5:46 pm Post subject: Re: Pertronix breakup? |
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kawfee wrote: |
He wrote points which didn't jive.
I still need clarification. |
He wrote "need to dig up a set of points", meaning he wants to put points back in and see if the problem goes away. _________________ Glenn
74 Beetle Specs | 74 Beetle Restoration | 2180cc Engine
"You may not get what you pay for, but you always pay for what you get"
Member #1009
#BlueSquare |
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Bugsy61 Samba Member
Joined: March 20, 2011 Posts: 256 Location: Peoria, Illinois
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Posted: Thu Nov 23, 2017 8:09 pm Post subject: Re: Pertronix breakup? |
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I assume you used a timing light on your engine after installing the Pertronix module. It may not trigger spark at exactly the same place as the points. When I installed mine, I had to shorten the rotor 1/8 inch or so. The reluctor wheel was a little tall on the shaft, and would not let the rotor seat fully. I've heard of others having to do the same. Something to check. |
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Danwvw Samba Member
Joined: July 31, 2012 Posts: 8892 Location: Oregon Coast
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Posted: Thu Nov 23, 2017 9:12 pm Post subject: Re: Pertronix breakup? |
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Pretty easy to try different things to see what thing is doing it. I have found that some distributor cabs cause this. It could be that the new coil makes too much high voltage for that distributor cap or perhaps the spark wires. A spark is probably jumping somewhere. _________________ 1960 Beetle And 1679cc DP W-100 & Dual Zeniths! |
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heimlich VWNOS.com
Joined: November 20, 2016 Posts: 6558 Location: Houston, Texas
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Posted: Thu Nov 23, 2017 9:49 pm Post subject: Re: Pertronix breakup? |
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Glenn wrote: |
kawfee wrote: |
He wrote points which didn't jive.
I still need clarification. |
He wrote "need to dig up a set of points", meaning he wants to put points back in and see if the problem goes away. |
Thanks for that. I go digging for points all the time. I have a box where a bunch of points fell out of their packaging. That's what I call digging but his fits the bill too. _________________ www.vwnos.com [email protected]
Classic Brands. Classic Quality.
Not all parts are made the same. NOS OE/OEM parts made mainly in West Germany, Early Germany, and Early Brazil are where VW produced the best quality parts and best fitting products.
5% Off your order with coupon code: 5%OFF
Restored Distributors Available (<--Click here) |
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ccowx Samba Member
Joined: May 15, 2015 Posts: 654 Location: Whitehorse Yukon
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Posted: Sat Nov 25, 2017 1:02 am Post subject: Re: Pertronix breakup? |
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Something worth checking is that you mention the wires being questionable. If you add more juice to the system it is going to want to jump somewhere. If it is set up right, that will be the point gap. However, if you upped the gap and/or the power level in the system, it can make it want to jump elsewhere. Either your cap could be crossfiring or you might have a leakage through the insulation in the wires.
Fire up the engine and then turn out the garage lights. Also check the cap for signs of carbon tracking. You might see a spark or many sparks where they should not be!
Chris |
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Alstrup Samba Member
Joined: July 12, 2007 Posts: 7182 Location: Videbaek Denmark
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Posted: Sat Nov 25, 2017 1:38 am Post subject: Re: Pertronix breakup? |
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Why not just try and replace the coil. you may have gotten a faulty one. and since your problems seem to have begun after the installation of the new couil I would say that it was a plausible place to start. |
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GARRICK.CLARK Samba Member
Joined: June 30, 2012 Posts: 1267 Location: Lancashire UK
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Posted: Sat Nov 25, 2017 2:00 am Post subject: Re: Pertronix breakup? |
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I had the exact same problem you are having. I fitted a petronix 3 module and flame thrower coil to my motor. worked for a short time , then POP, BANG, ETC. in the end the module just went dead. UTTER CRAP. |
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KROC Samba Member
Joined: February 20, 2006 Posts: 359 Location: Vancouver B.C.
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Posted: Sat Nov 25, 2017 2:07 pm Post subject: Re: Pertronix breakup? |
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Electronic modules don't get along with non resistor plug wires and plus.
make sure you are using resitor plugs and suppresion wires. |
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DavidWymore Samba Member
Joined: November 30, 2014 Posts: 121 Location: SoCal near Glamis
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Posted: Wed Nov 29, 2017 3:43 pm Post subject: Re: Pertronix breakup? |
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Thanks for all the suggestions. Made it through the long Thanksgiving weekend in the desert.
Turned out it wasn't Pertronix, it was Magfire.
Replaced it with points and the problem went away. Maybe the issue was rotor height or wires as suggested, don't know. It's getting returned I believe, or maybe tested on another engine. |
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Vanillagurilla Samba Member
Joined: November 21, 2017 Posts: 1061 Location: California
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Posted: Wed Nov 29, 2017 3:52 pm Post subject: Re: Pertronix breakup? |
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I've heard of the magnet that goes under the rotor not being low enough for the pick up to read it correctly. Seen a guy cut the lip off the top and push it down more and it worked fine. Just put pertronix in my baja and haven't fired it up yet so I'll cross my fingers. |
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DavidWymore Samba Member
Joined: November 30, 2014 Posts: 121 Location: SoCal near Glamis
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Posted: Fri Jan 05, 2018 12:27 pm Post subject: Re: Pertronix breakup? |
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Update: points started acting up, so I put a 2nd mafire in, same breaking up problem. I have more testing to do, but input appreciated. |
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modok Samba Member
Joined: October 30, 2009 Posts: 26743 Location: Colorado Springs
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Posted: Fri Jan 05, 2018 6:32 pm Post subject: Re: Pertronix breakup? |
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Don't buy the cheap copy, get a real compu-fire module.
Sounds like cross-fire or a bad coil. Check secondary resistance. Check rotor phasing.
Make sure distributor has a good ground and battery connections are solid.
The module grounds to the plate, the plate grounds to the distributor body, the distributor body grounds to the engine through the clamp. Anodized aluminum does not make good connections.
A loose battery terminal can cause this as well, or ground strap. Assuming it is an ignition problem. You know they say 90% of ignition problems are carburetor related, and vise versa, depending on who you ask |
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