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Mellow Yellow 74
Samba Member
Joined: October 14, 2014
Posts: 1615
Location: Sydney, Australia
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 Posted: Thu Nov 23, 2017 7:37 pm Post subject: Re: Why is my van so peppy? Not complaining just curious |
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| vanjoe wrote: |
| This is my 4th van and my first automatic which I love and would never go back to a stick in a Vanagon.? |
Maybe the auto has different gearing or you shifted at lower revs in the stick?
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1962 Karmann Ghia
1974 Deluxe Microbus
1985 Caravelle (Vanagon) |
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Wildthings
Samba Member
Joined: March 13, 2005
Posts: 50352
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| Posted: Thu Nov 23, 2017 8:25 pm Post subject: Re: Why is my van so peppy? Not complaining just curious |
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| Mellow Yellow 74 wrote: |
| vanjoe wrote: |
| This is my 4th van and my first automatic which I love and would never go back to a stick in a Vanagon.? |
Maybe the auto has different gearing or you shifted at lower revs in the stick? |
The torque converter may well allow of a higher average HP output when accelerating and hill climbing. Pretty much any time you have your foot in it the engine is going to immediately climb to 3000 rpm or higher. |
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djkeev
Samba Moderator
Joined: September 30, 2007
Posts: 32632
Location: Reading Pennsylvania
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| Posted: Fri Nov 24, 2017 5:43 am Post subject: Re: Why is my van so peppy? Not complaining just curious |
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| Wildthings wrote: |
| Mellow Yellow 74 wrote: |
| vanjoe wrote: |
| This is my 4th van and my first automatic which I love and would never go back to a stick in a Vanagon.? |
Maybe the auto has different gearing or you shifted at lower revs in the stick? |
The torque converter may well allow of a higher average HP output when accelerating and hill climbing. Pretty much any time you have your foot in it the engine is going to immediately climb to 3000 rpm or higher. |
It is more than simply having a torque converter.
The difference in my Van is amazing with the engine properly tuned! I almost feel like I'm being pushed by a bigger stronger power plant.
If your WBX lacks power, go back to basic tune up procedures and set things properly, especially setting the timing by ignoring the Bentley procedure completely!
Dave
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http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=392473
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dhaavers
Samba Member
Joined: March 19, 2010
Posts: 7757
Location: NE MN (tinyurl.com/dhaaverslocation)
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| Posted: Fri Nov 24, 2017 7:55 am Post subject: Re: Why is my van so peppy? Not complaining just curious |
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FWIW: MY van is peppy because I never speak ill in it's presence and regularly
pat it gently on the dashboard, repeating the mantra "Good little van..."
Also, I'm just lucky.
- Dave
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86 White Wolfsburg Westy Weekender
"The WonderVan"
<EDITED TO PROTECT INNOCENT PIXELS> |
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Ahwahnee
Samba Member
Joined: June 05, 2010
Posts: 9810
Location: Mt Lemmon, AZ
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| Posted: Fri Nov 24, 2017 8:01 am Post subject: Re: Why is my van so peppy? Not complaining just curious |
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| dhaavers wrote: |
| ...and regularly pat it gently on the dashboard... |
Nice to know I am not the only one that does that (usually after pulling into the garage from a trip of a few thousand miles). |
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djkeev
Samba Moderator
Joined: September 30, 2007
Posts: 32632
Location: Reading Pennsylvania
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tencentlife
Samba Member
Joined: May 02, 2006
Posts: 10078
Location: Abiquiu, NM, USA
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| Posted: Fri Nov 24, 2017 8:25 am Post subject: Re: Why is my van so peppy? Not complaining just curious |
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| Quote: |
3. There is likely (just my theory) an unacceptable variability in the timing mark on the WBX pulley and also the indexing of the woodruff keyway in the pulley and the keyway on the crank itself. This means that many of us are not getting a true and accurate reading of ignition timing when attempting to set it. (This can be solved with careful checking of true TDC when assembling the engine or, if you are skilled, through the spark plug hole.)
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'Fraid not, some other things about wbx's are a little rough around the edges, but the TDC and other marks are spot on, you can take it to the bank.
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vanjoe
Samba Member
Joined: December 25, 2009
Posts: 606
Location: Santa Maria
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| Posted: Sun Nov 26, 2017 1:05 pm Post subject: Re: Why is my van so peppy? Not complaining just curious |
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My other 3 vans ran pretty good also and had good power. This one just seems to have a little more. It idles very smooth compared to my other ones which idled ok but bounced up and down a little. Which I know one of my vans had a wore out throttle body. I did all the tune up stuff last year when I bought this one along with fuel lines which we all know is the first thing to do. The one thing I tried and don't really know if it is making a difference is side gapping my spark plugs. I am going to run a compression test and see where my timing is set for a baseline in the future like another member suggested. I am definitely not going to complain because I love my van. It is my non-human baby.😀
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1990 VW Vanagon tin top weekender Carat
1998 Mercedes S420
"Why is there never time to do it right the first time, but there is always time to do it twice?"
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jfu057
Samba Member
Joined: July 12, 2012
Posts: 96
Location: Greensboro
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| Posted: Sun Nov 26, 2017 6:46 pm Post subject: Re: Why is my van so peppy? Not complaining just curious |
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| wcdennis wrote: |
| I recently heard a Vanagon owner say, that after getting the ignition timing set properly, he can't imagine ever wanting to do an engine swap. Apparently, it made a world of difference to a Van he had been driving a while. |
I think I might be the this Vanagon owner. Hello again 
Just to give a further account of my experience, here is what I found out.
After rebuilding my AC system, which had been out of the van since the last unbearable southern summer, I could not get the timing set properly. Try as I might, I could only get the mark to just before TDC. The vacuum advance was contacting the compressor bracket and physically stopping me from advancing it further.
At first, I thought I screwed the pooch but the fact that the van seemed to be running normally made me think I should ask a professional. I took the van in and asked my mechanic to take a look at it. He walked me through it and informed me that I was in fact correct; the vacuum advance impacting the AC bracket was preventing the correct timing of the engine.
"How the hell did I manage to do that?" I asked. He proceeded to explain that most of early Vanagons had the AC installed at the dealerships instead of the factory. And that likely the issue probably started there and has just never been corrected. I don't know the history of the van though, so maybe it was introduced sometime later.
Anyway, He pulled the timing gear and reset the timing correctly (I now have plenty of room to move) and set the advance a bit forward. Now I actually have to watch my speedometer on the freeway because I might be going too fast! Also, the tach dots on the speedo make total sense now and I can accelerate going UP hill 
I had previously been saving for a conversion kit thinking that the WBX was just too under powered. Now I wonder how many other people converted their vans because of something like this when they really didn't need to. I'm not saying that a conversion isn't in my future at all, but I definitely don't think I NEED one anymore. It has become a nice to have instead.
Last edited by jfu057 on Thu Dec 21, 2017 4:08 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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oceanair
Samba Member
Joined: June 09, 2013
Posts: 720
Location: Victoria, BC
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| Posted: Sun Nov 26, 2017 7:01 pm Post subject: Re: Why is my van so peppy? Not complaining just curious |
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| Quote: |
especially setting the timing by ignoring the Bentley procedure completely!
Dave |
Are you referring to just timing it all advance in? How far did you go?
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84 Vanagon Pop Top Conversion from Tin Top, 1970 Ghia - all sweet rides! Love em!
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Wildthings
Samba Member
Joined: March 13, 2005
Posts: 50352
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| Posted: Sun Nov 26, 2017 7:45 pm Post subject: Re: Why is my van so peppy? Not complaining just curious |
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| oceanair wrote: |
| Quote: |
especially setting the timing by ignoring the Bentley procedure completely!
Dave |
Are you referring to just timing it all advance in? How far did you go? |
Search for Tencentlife's post on setting the timing for a 2.1L engine.
His method also works for a 1.9L engine, but the timing spec is not 35° BTDC in that case. For a 1.9L setting the timing at around 28° BTDC @3500+ rpms with the hoses off and the digital idle control bypassed works well. |
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oceanair
Samba Member
Joined: June 09, 2013
Posts: 720
Location: Victoria, BC
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| Posted: Sun Nov 26, 2017 7:59 pm Post subject: Re: Why is my van so peppy? Not complaining just curious |
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| Quote: |
| For a 1.9L setting the timing at around 28° BTDC @3500+ rpms with the hoses off and the digital idle control bypassed works well. |
I looked at the old post and didn't see any reference to taking off hoses. Quite the opposite -- leave everything alone. Is your reasoning that you need a load to advance the vacuum?
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84 Vanagon Pop Top Conversion from Tin Top, 1970 Ghia - all sweet rides! Love em!
Previous: Green 72 Tin Top, White 72 Westy, Blue 64 Beetle, Yellow 71 Squareback, 2014 Jetta TDI Wagon - wish I could have them all back! |
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Wildthings
Samba Member
Joined: March 13, 2005
Posts: 50352
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| Posted: Sun Nov 26, 2017 8:52 pm Post subject: Re: Why is my van so peppy? Not complaining just curious |
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| oceanair wrote: |
| Quote: |
| For a 1.9L setting the timing at around 28° BTDC @3500+ rpms with the hoses off and the digital idle control bypassed works well. |
I looked at the old post and didn't see any reference to taking off hoses. Quite the opposite -- leave everything alone. Is your reasoning that you need a load to advance the vacuum? |
Hoses off simulates the pedal to the floor condition when you ask and want to most from your engine. It also eliminates timing error due to a failed or out of spec vacuum can. |
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