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Telephunken
Samba Member
Joined: November 23, 2004
Posts: 274
Location: Northern California
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 Posted: Thu Nov 23, 2017 11:25 am Post subject: Re: '47 Beetle resurrection |
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| Martin Southwell wrote: |
| Telephunken wrote: |
| Does anyone have any input as to why the decklid would have a metal thickness of .5mm vs the rest of the car at .8mm? We know that metal on these earlier cars was much thinner than later splits but it seems unusual the decklid is that much thinner.....Anyone? |
What I'm about to say will throw the spanner in the works! I have my original off the 47, which because of the rear end shunt it received in 1966, is rather misshapen, but nevertheless is repairable, especially when I look at what is being worked on here.
Added to this, way back in history I managed to buy a much nicer embossed rear lid, which have always been very difficult to find, even then, and that is the one I have always intended using on the car.
In view of the observations here, I've just tried to measure the metal lids, which are stored in one of my containers, but because of the rain & wind I can't easily access both of them without putting items outside.
However, the replacement lid metal thickness measures a minimum of 0.9mm, and I've measured it in a number of places to make sure. The original lid I can't access to measure, but it certainly feels little different. I'll measure it as soon as the weather improves.
It could be that the replacement lid is from a later car, i.e. up to May 1949, when metal wasn't in such short supply, but I can't imagine any original sheet being only 0.5mm thick, although of course, anything is possible with these early cars. |
Great input Martin, and thanks for researching this for us. I look forward to hearing if your original lid is the same. Jason and I both agree that the lid is consistently that thickness and it's not just certain areas of the lead that have been worked or manipulated to make it thinner. One thing I would like to point out is that I am not 100% sure that this lid is THE original to my car. someone else had pointed out that the top of the triangular embossed area looks similar to one from an earlier car. so there will be no way of knowing if it was in fact a 47 lid or maybe it was an earlier lid. so if there was changes in metal thickness in these early post-war years, it's possible that my lid is from an earlier car. We had one other gentleman that's been watching this thread, back and said his lid feels much later than normal split lid. I would be curious to also get someone who has access to a very early car, possibly a war era beetle, that could give us a measurement as well. Jason and I have not yet measured my hood to see how it compares to the rear lid. All very interesting stuff......😊 |
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WrennMetallWerks
Samba Member
Joined: December 06, 2007
Posts: 2651
Location: Rescue ca
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WrennMetallWerks
Samba Member
Joined: December 06, 2007
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Location: Rescue ca
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mandraks
Samba Member
Joined: November 28, 2004
Posts: 7047
Location: Lawrenceville, Ga
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| Posted: Thu Nov 23, 2017 4:36 pm Post subject: Re: '47 Beetle resurrection |
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may be time to hook up with Richard Hausmann? he has several beetles of this vintage, he may very well know?
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/profile.php?mode=viewprofile&u=44741 iwlego
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'53 3-Fold Oval, L35 Metallic Blue, looking for a narrow hatch panel |
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johnshenry 
Samba Member
Joined: September 21, 2001
Posts: 9364
Location: Northwood, NH USA
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| Posted: Thu Nov 23, 2017 4:48 pm Post subject: Re: '47 Beetle resurrection |
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Thanks for the kind words all. I have been building wiring harnesses for splits since 2003, when I built one for my own 1950 sunroof split. I don't keep detailed records but I probably build and ship 12-15 per year. Lately, most are shipped out of the country. Earlier this year I shipped two '46 kits to Bulgaria. And I have orders now for three more '47 kits! I am now retired and this business makes me "play money". It is very, very gratifying to see my wires being used in some incredible restorations of splits.
I buy original harnesses, or what is left of them, from any of my customers who will sell them to me. I have '48 and up split harnesses, convertibles and Hebmueller (I build those too). Years ago I was loaned two '46 harnesses from someone who I was building harnesses for his TWO '46's. It was like making a dinosaur from two incomplete sets of bones. Where one harness might have been missing some wires, the other one had them, allowing me to document a complete harness and make a build template. While most all split harnesses are very similar, there are some subtle differences between years, especially in the 40s. I also build right hand drive harnesses, just sent one to Ireland last month.
Below are some pics of very complete '48 harness that I bought from a customer. Unlike any other harness I have had my hands on, this one had some solid color wires and tiny bits of colored thread wrapped on the ends of some of them. For example a wire that is documented to be black with red striping, was solid black, but had a tiny bit of red thread (now faded to beige actually, the dyes did not hold up well) wrapped on the end. My theory is that VW was not able to source the properly colored wire at a time when production was ramping up at a fierce pace, so they got solid wire, and probably paid "Helga" and other workers to wrap thread on the ends. Very fascinating! I used this '48 harness, which has segments with PVC looming and beige twine wrapped underneath it, as a pattern for the '47 harnesses (still looking for an original '47 harness, or even pics of wire detail).
Lastly, many years ago, I was putting a "lane change" turn signal accessory in my 2004 VW Jetta, and was in the dash splicing into the wires and got a chuckle when I found the "common" power wire for the right and left turn signals...... black with white and green striping, just like it was in 1947!!
Keep up the good work and details in this thread on this '47. Incredible work being done, so happy to be able to contribute!!
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John Henry
'57 Deluxe
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sunroof
Samba Member
Joined: October 06, 2006
Posts: 1773
Location: Winnipeg
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| Posted: Fri Nov 24, 2017 7:50 am Post subject: Re: '47 Beetle resurrection |
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Consistently the most enjoyable thread I've seen here. Keep it coming!
Don
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Telephunken
Samba Member
Joined: November 23, 2004
Posts: 274
Location: Northern California
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| Posted: Fri Nov 24, 2017 12:57 pm Post subject: Re: '47 Beetle resurrection |
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I think I have spoken via forum and email with Richard. His 47 is the Army green colored one....
-Shawn |
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Telephunken
Samba Member
Joined: November 23, 2004
Posts: 274
Location: Northern California
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| Posted: Fri Nov 24, 2017 12:59 pm Post subject: Re: '47 Beetle resurrection |
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John Henry, no need to thank us, the compliments we give you are well-deserved. Im glad to hear you are getting more request for early harnesses. Im curious if any of the ones for 47 you're getting are a couple cars that are being restored that I know.
-Shawn |
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Martin Southwell
Samba Member
Joined: November 24, 2010
Posts: 984
Location: Bath, England
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| Posted: Fri Nov 24, 2017 4:02 pm Post subject: Re: '47 Beetle resurrection |
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| And even more interestingly, what about the two 46's in Bulgaria? A week ago, I had an e-mail from someone in Greece, who said that 'his mechanic' had found him a 46, and had I got various spares for it? Amazing what keeps coming out of the woodwork! |
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WrennMetallWerks
Samba Member
Joined: December 06, 2007
Posts: 2651
Location: Rescue ca
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Telephunken
Samba Member
Joined: November 23, 2004
Posts: 274
Location: Northern California
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| Posted: Fri Nov 24, 2017 4:12 pm Post subject: Re: '47 Beetle resurrection |
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| Martin Southwell wrote: |
| And even more interestingly, what about the two 46's in Bulgaria? A week ago, I had an e-mail from someone in Greece, who said that 'his mechanic' had found him a 46, and had I got various spares for it? Amazing what keeps coming out of the woodwork! |
I agree! even though the vintage registry only shows around 60 or so 47 and 46's known, (give or take) ,but i still think that there could be several more out there not documented, and even a few unfound. But overall i think we are still under 100 left. Just my opinion. |
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Martin Southwell
Samba Member
Joined: November 24, 2010
Posts: 984
Location: Bath, England
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| Posted: Sat Nov 25, 2017 6:15 am Post subject: Re: '47 Beetle resurrection |
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Unfortunately that list is far from complete, contains many mistakes, and isn't up to date. I've written before to send updated information, but nothing was changed, and so I've given up trying. I was told at the time that the person who does the list had been very busy, etc.
It also needs someone who is proactive to undertake the task, and follow up leads/photos as they appear on Samba & elsewhere, particularly with the pre 1950 cars. There are people out there doing this already, as did Richard Cotton and myself (all splits) until the mid 90s. What we did find was that the VW world has a high % of owners, who didn't want to share their car details with anybody else, and the same is true today I gather.
We always guaranteed anonymity for those who required it, and that has continued until today. It's always been a game of cat and mouse! |
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WrennMetallWerks
Samba Member
Joined: December 06, 2007
Posts: 2651
Location: Rescue ca
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| Posted: Sat Nov 25, 2017 10:00 am Post subject: Re: '47 Beetle resurrection |
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| johnshenry wrote: |
Thanks for the kind words all. I have been building wiring harnesses for splits since 2003, when I built one for my own 1950 sunroof split. I don't keep detailed records but I probably build and ship 12-15 per year. Lately, most are shipped out of the country. Earlier this year I shipped two '46 kits to Bulgaria. And I have orders now for three more '47 kits! I am now retired and this business makes me "play money". It is very, very gratifying to see my wires being used in some incredible restorations of splits.
I buy original harnesses, or what is left of them, from any of my customers who will sell them to me. I have '48 and up split harnesses, convertibles and Hebmueller (I build those too). Years ago I was loaned two '46 harnesses from someone who I was building harnesses for his TWO '46's. It was like making a dinosaur from two incomplete sets of bones. Where one harness might have been missing some wires, the other one had them, allowing me to document a complete harness and make a build template. While most all split harnesses are very similar, there are some subtle differences between years, especially in the 40s. I also build right hand drive harnesses, just sent one to Ireland last month.
Below are some pics of very complete '48 harness that I bought from a customer. Unlike any other harness I have had my hands on, this one had some solid color wires and tiny bits of colored thread wrapped on the ends of some of them. For example a wire that is documented to be black with red striping, was solid black, but had a tiny bit of red thread (now faded to beige actually, the dyes did not hold up well) wrapped on the end. My theory is that VW was not able to source the properly colored wire at a time when production was ramping up at a fierce pace, so they got solid wire, and probably paid "Helga" and other workers to wrap thread on the ends. Very fascinating! I used this '48 harness, which has segments with PVC looming and beige twine wrapped underneath it, as a pattern for the '47 harnesses (still looking for an original '47 harness, or even pics of wire detail).
Lastly, many years ago, I was putting a "lane change" turn signal accessory in my 2004 VW Jetta, and was in the dash splicing into the wires and got a chuckle when I found the "common" power wire for the right and left turn signals...... black with white and green striping, just like it was in 1947!!
Keep up the good work and details in this thread on this '47. Incredible work being done, so happy to be able to contribute!!
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I absolutely love watching your work. We are lucky to have someone with your skill and knowledge in this industry making these things happen for all of us.
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WrennMetallWerks
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Telephunken
Samba Member
Joined: November 23, 2004
Posts: 274
Location: Northern California
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| Posted: Wed Nov 29, 2017 12:51 am Post subject: Re: '47 Beetle resurrection |
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Today, in the midst of this ongoing venture to bring this great car back to its former glory, we celebrate a great milestone. Today, November 28th, marks the 70 year anniversary of this type 11 beetle rolling off the assembly line in 1947 (as per the Volkswagen birth certificate).
A great achievement that she has survived so long. Happy Birthday 😊🍾🎉
Thank you to all for following along and for your support. |
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René R.
Samba Member
Joined: July 06, 2015
Posts: 1711
Location: No. Calif.
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| Posted: Wed Nov 29, 2017 9:21 am Post subject: Re: '47 Beetle resurrection |
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Wow! Happy birthday indeed! 
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Gone but not forgotten: 1950 Hoffman split (restored in 1966) - another 1950 Hoffman split (restored in 1996) |
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WrennMetallWerks
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Joined: December 06, 2007
Posts: 2651
Location: Rescue ca
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lovethatconvertible
Samba Member
Joined: August 22, 2008
Posts: 1434
Location: Las Vegas N. V.
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| Posted: Mon Dec 11, 2017 8:12 pm Post subject: Re: '47 Beetle resurrection |
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Your insane...................... In a Good way
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HUGO bOSS
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WrennMetallWerks
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