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Volkster78
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Joined: November 14, 2017
Posts: 12
Location: Colorado
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 Posted: Tue Nov 14, 2017 6:55 am Post subject: Emissions Test CO-2017 |
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1978 Super Beetle Type 1 with Fuel Injection believe it is the 1600.
Failed Emission test - HC = 406 against max of 400
HC at 2346rpm = 255.2 at Idle 940 = 405.8 max of 400
CO% at 2346rpm = 0.22 at Idle 940 = 0.23 max of 1.50
CO2% at 2346rpm = 12.62 at Idle 940 = 7.29 none given
Changed oil, air filter, premium gas for retest.
HC at 2491rpm = 220.2 at Idle 941 = 435.3 max of 400
CO% at 2491rpm = 0.28 at Idle 941 = 0.48 max of 1.50
CO2% at 2491rpm = 12.92 at Idle 941 = 11.06 none given
Any idea what needs to be done to lower the HC's?
Some history, car had been sitting for 12years. Removed gas tank and cleaned, blew out lines, added inline filters prior to starting. The car runs great.
Hoping someone can guide me.
Thanks
Last edited by Volkster78 on Tue Nov 14, 2017 10:07 am; edited 2 times in total |
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busdaddy
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Joined: February 12, 2004
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Location: Surrey B.C. Canada, but thinking of Ukraine
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| Posted: Tue Nov 14, 2017 8:39 am Post subject: Re: Emissions Test CO-2017 |
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Welcome!
| Volkster78 wrote: |
| ......All other test still ok......... |
Please post the rest of the numbers, they can play a large part in high Hc's as well even if they are within spec.
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Volkster78
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Joined: November 14, 2017
Posts: 12
Location: Colorado
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| Posted: Tue Nov 14, 2017 10:09 am Post subject: Re: Emissions Test CO-2017 |
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| added all data to original post. Thank you |
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busdaddy
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Joined: February 12, 2004
Posts: 51130
Location: Surrey B.C. Canada, but thinking of Ukraine
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| Posted: Tue Nov 14, 2017 10:55 am Post subject: Re: Emissions Test CO-2017 |
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Your idle Co is too low, likely due to multiple tiny vacuum leaks, a smoke tester will help find them: https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=620083&highlight=smoke+tester A lean miss at idle causes high Hc's and L-jet can't compensate for vacuum leaks. High Hc's can also result from poor compression or tight valves, I assume you've done a tune up and valve adjustment? You'll also want to change every rubber fuel line in the system even if they look OK, no need for another burnt VW.
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Helfen
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Joined: January 19, 2009
Posts: 3450
Location: Vulcania
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| Posted: Tue Nov 14, 2017 11:19 am Post subject: Re: Emissions Test CO-2017 |
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| Volkster78 wrote: |
1978 Super Beetle Type 1 with Fuel Injection believe it is the 1600.
Failed Emission test - HC = 406 against max of 400
HC at 2346rpm = 255.2 at Idle 940 = 405.8 max of 400
CO% at 2346rpm = 0.22 at Idle 940 = 0.23 max of 1.50
CO2% at 2346rpm = 12.62 at Idle 940 = 7.29 none given
Changed oil, air filter, premium gas for retest.
HC at 2491rpm = 220.2 at Idle 941 = 435.3 max of 400
CO% at 2491rpm = 0.28 at Idle 941 = 0.48 max of 1.50
CO2% at 2491rpm = 12.92 at Idle 941 = 11.06 none given
Any idea what needs to be done to lower the HC's?
Some history, car had been sitting for 12years. Removed gas tank and cleaned, blew out lines, added inline filters prior to starting. The car runs great.
Hoping someone can guide me.
Thanks |
I would like to see the numbers if you had driven the car straight in from driving on the FWY for 30Min at 70mph. The key is to get that Catalytic converter hot.
Your Idle speed is ok.
I would like to see the plugs and check for general conditions of tune up. It's possible you might need a new cat.
My 76 has typical numbers of .01% CO and 48 ppm HC at idle and for the 2500 rpm test it can get as low as .05% CO and 58 PPM HC
The key here at testing time is that the car must come off the street right away. Don't park the car and let it go through a warm up cycle or let them talk you into a we'll warm it up before testing. It must go right into testing after driving.
Last edited by Helfen on Tue Nov 14, 2017 1:42 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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busdaddy
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Location: Surrey B.C. Canada, but thinking of Ukraine
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| Posted: Tue Nov 14, 2017 1:32 pm Post subject: Re: Emissions Test CO-2017 |
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| Helfen wrote: |
| ... and there is no need to adjust valves with a car that has hydraulic lifters......... |
Indeed, but a 78 Beetle doesn't have those 
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Please don't PM technical questions, ask your problem in public so everyone can play along. If you think it's too stupid post it here
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Helfen
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Joined: January 19, 2009
Posts: 3450
Location: Vulcania
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| Posted: Tue Nov 14, 2017 1:41 pm Post subject: Re: Emissions Test CO-2017 |
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| busdaddy wrote: |
| Helfen wrote: |
| ... and there is no need to adjust valves with a car that has hydraulic lifters......... |
Indeed, but a 78 Beetle doesn't have those |
Sorry, It was the type 2 engine that got those first in 78. So Check the lash as part as the tune up.  |
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busdaddy
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Joined: February 12, 2004
Posts: 51130
Location: Surrey B.C. Canada, but thinking of Ukraine
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| Posted: Tue Nov 14, 2017 4:15 pm Post subject: Re: Emissions Test CO-2017 |
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| Helfen wrote: |
| busdaddy wrote: |
| Helfen wrote: |
| ... and there is no need to adjust valves with a car that has hydraulic lifters......... |
Indeed, but a 78 Beetle doesn't have those |
Sorry, It was the type 2 engine that got those first in 78. So Check the lash as part as the tune up. |
Even if it were a bus check them, often it's got a donor engine from another year or it has been converted to solids, never assume anything with old VW's.
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Volkster78
Samba Member
Joined: November 14, 2017
Posts: 12
Location: Colorado
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| Posted: Wed Nov 15, 2017 12:07 pm Post subject: Re: Emissions Test CO-2017 |
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Thanks all, I have some things to check.
Test was done after a hard drive, so was hot as could be on a 65F day. They make you shut off car before you get out. But test was done within a minute or two.
I've changed the plugs (after test). Old ones looked ok.
Changed points, they were pitted.
Went to check timing but TL quit on me. have to buy a new one.
All i see is a notch on the pulley. no marks on the block casting. just a 10mm wide casting rib. ????? My book says 5deg ATDC???
Need to check vacuum lines.
Cat i think is ok as it shows none of the symptoms. |
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busdaddy
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Joined: February 12, 2004
Posts: 51130
Location: Surrey B.C. Canada, but thinking of Ukraine
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| Posted: Wed Nov 15, 2017 1:23 pm Post subject: Re: Emissions Test CO-2017 |
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| Volkster78 wrote: |
| ...... My book says 5deg ATDC???.... |
Thet depends on the distributor thats installed and if it's functioning correctly, have a look at this:
(pay attention to the type 1 parts in your case)
| busdaddy wrote: |
Here's the sermon 
First you need to determine exactly where TDC is on your pulley and then set the timing at speed like this: Here's my timing for noobs rundown (keep in mind this assumes you have a degree wheel, timing scale or dial advance timing light and know where TDC really is, if you don't understand the marks on your type 1 pulley read this: http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=251672&highlight=stock+pulley+marks ). Or if type 4 see this: http://www.ratwell.com/technical/FindTimingMark.html
If you only have one hose attached to your distributor pull it off, you don't need to cap it (no need on single hose systems), if you have 2 pull them both off but plug the one that was connected to the nipple facing the distributor (retard {not you, that's what the hose does}). Now connect the timing light to the battery and the #1 plug wire according to the timing light instructions (and set it to zero if it's the type with adjustments). Now start the engine and shoot the timing light at the scale and pulley (hold the light in your right hand), see the mark on the pulley?, good. Now using your left hand slowly open the throttle on the side of the carb or throttle body (move it the same way the cable pulls it) and watch the timing mark VS: the scale, the mark on the pulley should start to move to the left, open the throttle a little more and continue until the mark no longer moves to the left any more (yes it's loud, isn't it?), give it a bit more throttle just to confirm the mark is staying put at wherever it stopped (hopefully 28 degrees) and then release the throttle. If it stopped at 28 move on to carb/FI adjustment, if it went past or didn't make it all the way loosen the distributor clamp a little and turn the distributor a few degrees one way or the other (you pick, if it's worse go the other way), repeat until you find the happy spot and don't forget to tighten the clamp when you are done (make sure the distributor is pushed down all the way into the case too). Avoid loose fitting clothing and long hair near spinning fans and belts too, no need for a trip to emergency. Now put the hose back on, pack up the timing light and move on to carb or FI adjustment. |
The parting line (seam) on the case is the pointer the pulley marks must align with.
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Please don't PM technical questions, ask your problem in public so everyone can play along. If you think it's too stupid post it here
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Erik G
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Volkster78
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Joined: November 14, 2017
Posts: 12
Location: Colorado
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| Posted: Wed Nov 22, 2017 5:18 pm Post subject: Re: Emissions Test CO-2017 |
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Timing was way off. Photo of how the timing is now when adjusted with the retard vacuum off and plugged.
Is this correct?
Thanks |
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ach60 
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Joined: May 14, 2001
Posts: 4139
Location: Santa Maria
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| Posted: Wed Nov 22, 2017 6:02 pm Post subject: Re: Emissions Test CO-2017 |
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| Volkster78 wrote: |
Timing was way off. Photo of how the timing is now when adjusted with the retard vacuum off and plugged.
Is this correct?
Thanks |
No no no.
Leave vacuum lines on, that 5 degrees after TDC with all vacuum lines connected.
You are so close I'd check auto parts Store for a bottle of "Will Pass" and test it again.
is this a 49 state car, or a Ca. car?
Only Ca. cars had the cat, and mechanical EGR.
49 State EGR
California only
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Good Luck
Al |
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Volkster78
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Joined: November 14, 2017
Posts: 12
Location: Colorado
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| Posted: Fri Nov 24, 2017 12:58 pm Post subject: Re: Emissions Test CO-2017 |
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Your pic of the "California only" engine sure looks like mine.
I think I'm the 3rd owner (all in CO) but maybe not. Might have been purchased in CA???
Anyway, you say I need to retime "with the vacuum lines on" so that
the mark aligns as shown on my original pic?
Give me your thoughts on using premium gas?
Have 3/4 tank of it now. Would filling with E85 help?
I'll try to find some "will pass".
Looking forward to more good advice.
Thank you. |
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Volkster78
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Joined: November 14, 2017
Posts: 12
Location: Colorado
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| Posted: Fri Nov 24, 2017 1:13 pm Post subject: Re: Emissions Test CO-2017 |
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Would this be comparable to "Will Pass". Can find will pass. |
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Volkster78
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Joined: November 14, 2017
Posts: 12
Location: Colorado
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| Posted: Fri Nov 24, 2017 2:23 pm Post subject: Re: Emissions Test CO-2017 |
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| I don't think it is a CA car as the EGR is vacuum, not mechanical. |
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Volkster78
Samba Member
Joined: November 14, 2017
Posts: 12
Location: Colorado
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| Posted: Fri Nov 24, 2017 3:32 pm Post subject: Re: Emissions Test CO-2017 |
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Passed Emissions.
HC at idle down to 345.
Thanks to all for your guidance. |
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busdaddy
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Joined: February 12, 2004
Posts: 51130
Location: Surrey B.C. Canada, but thinking of Ukraine
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| Posted: Fri Nov 24, 2017 4:30 pm Post subject: Re: Emissions Test CO-2017 |
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Woohoo!
Your system looks like the 49 state federal version from here.
Out of curiosity does the timing mark jump to the left if you disconnect the hose on the distibutor that faces forward?
All those vacuum lines look 39 years old, the connections between the manifold and plenum are likely just as petrified as well as the injector to manifold seals. It's worth your time to replace them as well as every single fuel line, it'll be up for another 39 years of neglect, will run better and is less likely to catch fire.
_________________
Rust NEVER sleeps and stock never goes out of style.
Please don't PM technical questions, ask your problem in public so everyone can play along. If you think it's too stupid post it here
Stop dead photo links! Post your photos to The Samba Gallery!
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Volkster78
Samba Member
Joined: November 14, 2017
Posts: 12
Location: Colorado
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| Posted: Sat Nov 25, 2017 11:21 am Post subject: Re: Emissions Test CO-2017 |
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Your system looks like the 49 state federal version from here.
Out of curiosity does the timing mark jump to the left if you disconnect the hose on the distributor that faces forward?
Not sure what a 49 state federal version is.
Yes the timing mark jumps to the left with vacuum line is disconnected.
Thanks for all your help. |
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busdaddy
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Joined: February 12, 2004
Posts: 51130
Location: Surrey B.C. Canada, but thinking of Ukraine
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| Posted: Sat Nov 25, 2017 12:17 pm Post subject: Re: Emissions Test CO-2017 |
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49 state = not California.
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