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Gary
Person of Interest
Joined: November 01, 2002
Posts: 17069
Location: 127.0.0.1
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 Posted: Thu Nov 23, 2017 8:31 am Post subject: Re: Our reliance on Tech in new cars |
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| coad wrote: |
| Bobnotch wrote: |
He took it into the dealer 1 day, as it was acting funny. The Service writer there told him he couldn't leave with his car, as the electric power steering was shot, and was too dangerous to drive.
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Whenever my dealer's service writer opens his mouth whatever comes out is pretty much guaranteed to be a lie.
If he told me my car was too dangerous to drive I'd jump in and go cross country without giving it a second's thought. |
Agreed.
I had a Chevy with ~25K miles on it when the PCM was throwing a code. I took it to the dealership for warranty work and the service writer *recommended* the the cooling system be flushed. I told him the car came from the factory with DexCool and could go 100K miles without a change, plus it was still bright orange. He proceeded to inform me it was the dealership's policy to recommend customers switch to the old-style green coolant. I told him to fix the warranty item and not to touch anything else.
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Zundfolge1432 
Samba Member
Joined: June 13, 2004
Posts: 12468
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| Posted: Thu Nov 23, 2017 11:06 am Post subject: Re: Our reliance on Tech in new cars |
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| EverettB wrote: |
| Zundfolge1432 wrote: |
| 79SuperVert wrote: |
| IMO anything that automatically opens / closes doors, turns the engine off and on at stops, moves your seat around, darkens your inside rear view mirror, folds in your outside mirrors, etc. etc. are features that will soon break down and cost unnecessary money to fix. I would have avoided power windows / doors and electric accelerator pedal action as well on the new minivan we just bought but I couldn't get around that. Suffice to say the dealer sold us the car at a $2,000 loss to them. |
My 2008 Lexus has all those features and more, it’s hybrid and it still all works love it. Has a killer factory audio system as well. Super reliable is a top rated car to buy used. It’s also a best seller new so I’m not alone. I’ll buy another when the time comes.  I realize this forum which worships WW2 technology isn’t the best place to show appreciation of such an item but I like a lot of different cars new and old. Something mentioned nowhere in this thread or others like it is there are a few although we are a minority myself included that can afford to buy cars without worrying about things that might break, we enjoy them. I could say I’m thankful for that, happy thanksgiving. |
FWIW I like to know what "new" cars are good cars where all that random fancy stuff doesn't break so thanks. |
New models are to be avoided until they’ve proven themselves reliable, it takes a few years to compile the data. You can go through NHTSA looking at malfunction and defect reports, service bulletins and recalls. Here consumers can lodge complaints of all kinds not just safety related, that’s cumbersome but you’ll find hidden info, things that aren’t publicized but available to you the consumer.
JD power and associates, Edmunds have some info as well but Consumer Reports accepts no advertising and supposedly works off their own testing and information provided from subscribers, I’ve found it to pretty accurate. What gets in the way is advertising hype and people’s biases towards certain brands regardless of common sense and wisdom, it gets into critical thinking and being able to desseminate factual information.
I know of two independent shops in town where the guys started out factory trained and they specialize in that brand today, they are better sources of truthful info on those brands rather than dealers. You can also look at fleet sales what do cops and taxi operators use? They mostly favored V8 rear wheel drive after most everyone abandoned that platform, properly maintained those were pretty reliable and cheaper to repair. The most expensive cars in the world are still using that platform ask yourself why?
I didn’t always gravitate towards cars laden with luxury features but reasoned that buying them used 4 to 6 years old they are depreciated by half or more and the original owners were usually older and tended to take better care of the car and you can find low mile examples. Plus I’m getting older and the comfortable interiors feel better to my body now, downside some require premium fuel. I’ve also got aging relatives and must have a vehicle ready to go at moments notice ready to cover 1,000 miles or more. I usually keep a car another 5 years and pass it on before it totally unwinds.
When I was younger I bought a stripped model truck no radio, rubber floors, no rear bumper etc. it was uncomfortable on long trips even though I was a bulletproof 27 year old. these are just my opinions you know I could be full of beans. Wishing all happy T day, I gotta go eat. |
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scottyrocks
Samba Member
Joined: August 19, 2016
Posts: 2665
Location: Long Island, NY
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| Posted: Thu Nov 23, 2017 11:31 am Post subject: Re: Our reliance on Tech in new cars |
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That one of the many nice things I like about getting to my bug. There is nothing there but stuff needed to actually drive the car.
So instead of complaining about all the things my '15 Honda has that I don't need, I will instead list the more modern things I want to put into my '63 Bug.
I'd like a radio. Normally not a big deal, but my car is 6v and finding a 6v radio of any decent quality is proving to be next to impossible. I am leaning towards putting a small 12v battery under the rear seat, left side, to run a modern radio and speakers to.
I will also need that battery to power a lighter socket so I can use my Garmin and charge my phone. I will put a set of pigtails on the battery so I can plug a charger into it once a week, or as needed. Small electronics won't drain the battery quickly so I think it should work out okay.
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scottyrocks
Samba Member
Joined: August 19, 2016
Posts: 2665
Location: Long Island, NY
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| Posted: Thu Nov 23, 2017 11:41 am Post subject: Re: Our reliance on Tech in new cars |
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| Bobnotch wrote: |
| raygreenwood wrote: |
I have no issues with a lot of the new "systems" technology in the newer cars....as long as it is not a road distraction to use...and as long as it does cause a reliability problem.
Tire pressure monitors....don't need them....nothing but trouble. The ones my car has are too sensitive. On a cool morning...starting a long highway drive...like clockwork....at about the same mile marker the light goes on as the temp and tire pressure goes up.
Ray |
On my son's 08 Civic, if you have a TPM light on, you can't turn off the traction control system. With the TC system on, max speed in light (or heavy) snow is about 25 mph, and the car IS fighting itself to go in a straight line. He says it can get very scary driving the 3 miles to work in the winter (all city streets) with the TC on. That's his only real complaint about the car. |
I had a '12 Civic with the in-wheel sensor system. In short, what a PITA.
My '15 Civic has the newer sensorless system. No more hassles changing wheels.
I drive (and drove) both of these cars with the TC off (light lit). I can manage my own wheelspin, tyvm. I can also check my tires with a gauge all by myself. TPMS is one of those things for the masses who, as stated here earlier, want everything done for them.
I abhor touch-screens. I bought the lowest level model I could get (the lowest level model) partly because it doesn't have a touch-screen. And yes, I hunted around for a 5MT because for me it's three pedals or bust.
We are enthusiasts. We like doing things ourselves. We are in the very definite minority.
_________________
“If you care for a thing long enough, it takes on a life of its own, doesn't it? Mending old things, preserving them, looking after them – on some level there's no rational grounds for it.”
– D. Tartt, 'The Goldfinch' |
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djkeev
Samba Moderator
Joined: September 30, 2007
Posts: 32625
Location: Reading Pennsylvania
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| Posted: Fri Nov 24, 2017 4:48 am Post subject: Re: Our reliance on Tech in new cars |
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| scottyrocks wrote: |
That one of the many nice things I like about getting to my bug. There is nothing there but stuff needed to actually drive the car.
So instead of complaining about all the things my '15 Honda has that I don't need, I will instead list the more modern things I want to put into my '63 Bug.
I'd like a radio. Normally not a big deal, but my car is 6v and finding a 6v radio of any decent quality is proving to be next to impossible. I am leaning towards putting a small 12v battery under the rear seat, left side, to run a modern radio and speakers to.
I will also need that battery to power a lighter socket so I can use my Garmin and charge my phone. I will put a set of pigtails on the battery so I can plug a charger into it once a week, or as needed. Small electronics won't drain the battery quickly so I think it should work out okay. |
In the not too distant future one will be wishing for a good old fashioned 12 volt unit.
All of this electronic stuff you're all whining about has pretty well maxed out traditional 12 volt storage battery capacity.
Look for 24, 36 or maybe higher volts to appear......
Maybe some already have?
Dave
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Cusser
Samba Member
Joined: October 02, 2006
Posts: 31378
Location: Hot Arizona
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| Posted: Fri Nov 24, 2017 6:16 am Post subject: Re: Our reliance on Tech in new cars |
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| Jon Schmid wrote: |
| Have you read an owner's manual for a car built within the last 15-20 years? They are for the most part useless anyway. |
Gawd - the owners' manual for Mrs. Cusser's 2005 Yukon is a real mess, seems like every section I look up refers me to a different page in a whole 'nuther section. When the circuit for emissions test folks to read the ECU, wouldn't work, turned out it shares the same circuit as the cigarette lighter, which - of course - is merely labeled "cigar" in the fuse box and in the fuse box diagram in the manual. I guarantee that the emissions folks already knew this, but they did not relay that information to Mrs. Cusser, but luckily I found that information on the Internet so didn't have to pay a shop to "fix". Yes, I got confused that the picture of a spaceman with beams emanating from his head on the door jamb meant lever to overide the door unlocking mechanism, why couldn't they use words??? Anyway, there's about 150 "universal symbols" on that vehicle, I hardly ever drive that, figure that I understand about 20 of them, like the picture that looks like a kid's wagon is the towing feature....
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Gary
Person of Interest
Joined: November 01, 2002
Posts: 17069
Location: 127.0.0.1
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| Posted: Fri Nov 24, 2017 7:17 am Post subject: Re: Our reliance on Tech in new cars |
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| Zundfolge1432 wrote: |
| EverettB wrote: |
| Zundfolge1432 wrote: |
| 79SuperVert wrote: |
| IMO anything that automatically opens / closes doors, turns the engine off and on at stops, moves your seat around, darkens your inside rear view mirror, folds in your outside mirrors, etc. etc. are features that will soon break down and cost unnecessary money to fix. I would have avoided power windows / doors and electric accelerator pedal action as well on the new minivan we just bought but I couldn't get around that. Suffice to say the dealer sold us the car at a $2,000 loss to them. |
My 2008 Lexus has all those features and more, it’s hybrid and it still all works love it. Has a killer factory audio system as well. Super reliable is a top rated car to buy used. It’s also a best seller new so I’m not alone. I’ll buy another when the time comes. I realize this forum which worships WW2 technology isn’t the best place to show appreciation of such an item but I like a lot of different cars new and old. Something mentioned nowhere in this thread or others like it is there are a few although we are a minority myself included that can afford to buy cars without worrying about things that might break, we enjoy them. I could say I’m thankful for that, happy thanksgiving. |
FWIW I like to know what "new" cars are good cars where all that random fancy stuff doesn't break so thanks. |
New models are to be avoided until they’ve proven themselves reliable, it takes a few years to compile the data. You can go through NHTSA looking at malfunction and defect reports, service bulletins and recalls. Here consumers can lodge complaints of all kinds not just safety related, that’s cumbersome but you’ll find hidden info, things that aren’t publicized but available to you the consumer.
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That's not always true, regarding new models. A fellow Samba member pointed me to TrueDelta as a better source for reliability statistics. I've used it extensively when researching vehicles, and it's surprising to see vehicle models that actually experience an increase in issues from one generation to the next.
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mark tucker
Samba Member
Joined: April 08, 2009
Posts: 23937
Location: SHALIMAR ,FLORIDA
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| Posted: Fri Nov 24, 2017 5:58 pm Post subject: Re: Our reliance on Tech in new cars |
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the new hundie snota ( full size car according to hertz) didnt seem to have much in the way of tech execot for the dam radio switches on the steering wheel and the dam raido kept asking me what station I wanted...... well I wanted a gps station....  the wife after a few drinks is a riot reading her phone directions.....I never did find the way to open the gas door...no not that one  the one on the car.... I'm starten to think I'm more suited to an old timey car....that way Im already high tech  no Im not high, just old performance tech. |
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Cali_Army_Guy
Samba Member
Joined: March 19, 2015
Posts: 2094
Location: Stockton, CA
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| Posted: Sun Nov 26, 2017 12:07 am Post subject: Re: Our reliance on Tech in new cars |
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I’m not going to read every single post, but I have noticed a lot of people bringing up the “wait until the fancy stuff breaks” argument. In this day and age nobody really keeps new cars long enough for that to happen. A lot of people lease and get a new car every 3 years. A lot of people also trade in their car after 3-5 years. All of which is within most factory warranty time limits without an extended warranty. My wife’s Passat is a 2015 and I’m already debating on ditching it next spring for something else. I’ll never own a modern car without a full warranty on it.
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Zundfolge1432
Samba Member
Joined: June 13, 2004
Posts: 12468
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| Posted: Sun Nov 26, 2017 6:35 am Post subject: Re: Our reliance on Tech in new cars |
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| Cali_Army_Guy wrote: |
| I’m not going to read every single post, but I have noticed a lot of people bringing up the “wait until the fancy stuff breaks” argument. In this day and age nobody really keeps new cars long enough for that to happen. A lot of people lease and get a new car every 3 years. A lot of people also trade in their car after 3-5 years. All of which is within most factory warranty time limits without an extended warranty. My wife’s Passat is a 2015 and I’m already debating on ditching it next spring for something else. I’ll never own a modern car without a full warranty on it. |
That’s a good way to look at it, safe and rational too. I purchased a used Ford Ranger for my dad a few years ago and bought extended warranty through a credit union. Never any big ticket failures but a few sensors, small items here and there. The cost of the policy was recouped and more importantly he had piece of mind, no worries. He had the option of going through Ford or any independent shop and before someone pipes up about bogus warranties or trouble making them pay I’ll just say he never had a problem, it was legit. |
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sb001
Samba Member
Joined: May 19, 2011
Posts: 10406
Location: NW Arkansas
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| Posted: Sun Nov 26, 2017 6:43 am Post subject: Re: Our reliance on Tech in new cars |
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So here's my tech gone awry story--
Almost two weeks ago I drove my 99 Maxima up to the DMV. I've posted about this car before- has 380,000 miles on it etc. Well, little known to me, the 99 Maximas were the first year of their infamous NATS (Nissan antitheft system) which uses an immobilizer to prevent the car from starting in case someone tampers with the igniton, tries to use the wrong key etc.
Of course, this system is inevitably going to break at some point, and it did on me right in the DMV parking lot to where it would not allow me to start the car--and there is NO workaround. I ended up having it towed to the dealership since everything I read about it said the dealership has to reprogram the keys. Sure enough the dealer calls me back and states that I need a whole new ECU and immobilizer module to the tune of $2200. Of course the car isn't worth anything near that, and a call to Nissan Consumer Affairs was completely futile. My point to them was, you installed a system on a car whose sole purpose is to keep a perfectly running car from starting, that has nothing to do with the actual drivabilty of the car, so when it breaks, your dealerships can bilk customers by charging whatever they want??
Long story short (too late) just as I was about to haul it off to the salvage yard, on a last ditch effort I called a locksmith here in town who works on nothing but cars, and he said "Oh yeah I'm familiar with that problem I'll have you back up and running in about 45 minutes." Sure enough he rolled up hooked up his computer to my diagnostic port, reflashed the ECU, and reprogrammed my keys and the car started right up. Total bill $250.
I'm still so infuriated that now I can't remember whether I posted this to complain about unnecessary technology in modern cars or to complain about the stealership's 1000% markup.... :fist: them both
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gt1953
Samba Member
Joined: May 08, 2002
Posts: 13848
Location: White Mountains Arizona
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| Posted: Sun Nov 26, 2017 6:58 am Post subject: Re: Our reliance on Tech in new cars |
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({A lot of people also trade in their car after 3-5 years.})
And a lot of people don't. My 2001 GMC 4X4 has treated me right. Just rolled over to the 100,000 mile mark. Love the no payments, lower insurance, cheap plates, and several people want the truck...NFS =not for sale. We figure that one new vehicle a year pays for all of the maintenance/repairs for a year or two. Ok I don't have steering wheel controls and other do dads. The vehicle came fully loaded every option for time.
The replacement vehicle would cost way more then the house we live in. We don't want payments.
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Zundfolge1432
Samba Member
Joined: June 13, 2004
Posts: 12468
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| Posted: Sun Nov 26, 2017 7:05 am Post subject: Re: Our reliance on Tech in new cars |
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| Glad to hear it worked out for you. I think of dealerships same way as casinos, very fancy with amenities to lure folks in, but who’s really paying for all that nice stuff ? Make it work for you, here’s what I do. The big Toyota dealer here in town has a snack bar with free Java Dave coffee, bottled water and very tasty cookies. So whenever I feel like it I’ll swing in to grab some. They also replace batteries in remotes for free, I own two late model Toyotas. Sometimes I’ll swing over to the parts department and buy a oil filter just to make it all fair in turn they look up part numbers or copy things from their tech manuals just for me. They continue to grow and prosper, just one more thing I’m thankful for. |
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79SuperVert
Samba Member
Joined: May 31, 2002
Posts: 9758
Location: Elizabeth, NJ & La Isla Del Encanto
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| Posted: Sun Nov 26, 2017 7:23 am Post subject: Re: Our reliance on Tech in new cars |
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| Cali_Army_Guy wrote: |
| In this day and age nobody really keeps new cars long enough for that to happen. A lot of people lease and get a new car every 3 years. |
Don't know if you have the stats to back up your statement that nobody keeps new cars very long any more, but leasing a car every 3 years is, in my opinion, far more expensive than buying a reliable car and keeping it for many years. I kept my last minivan for 12 years and it needed no major repairs. My kids drive "cream puff" low mileage used Toyotas we bought on Craig's List from original owners, that are now about 15-17 years old, and have not yet needed major repairs. My wife recently "upgraded" from her 15 year old Toyota to a "pre-owned" certified used 3 year old Toyota from a dealer, and will probably keep it another 15 years.
Everyone is free to spend their money as they see fit, but it seems to me buying a car every 3 years is pretty wasteful when you could be saving for retirement or paying for health care or building a college fund instead.
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Zundfolge1432
Samba Member
Joined: June 13, 2004
Posts: 12468
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| Posted: Sun Nov 26, 2017 8:07 am Post subject: Re: Our reliance on Tech in new cars |
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In 2006 the average length of ownership of new car buyers was 4.3 years. It’s up to about 7.8 now. Anyone driving stuff north of 10 years old is on the other side, not that it’s a bad thing though. With prices upwards of 30k people are holding on longer now or they are buying good used.
How’s this for cheap? Coming home from work Friday (yes I worked all day) I spotted a triple black 1995 Lincoln Town car for sale @ 500.00 . Called the number, drove the car. It needs a muffler, all four window regulators ignition switch and possibly an alternator. Reminded me of the blues mobile so I took it home. back in the day I was a Lincoln guy so I know these cars and parts are cheap and plentiful plus they are reliable. What do you suppose it cost new? |
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VOLKSWAGNUT
Fastest VW Belt Changer
Joined: October 14, 2007
Posts: 11056
Location: Flippin' a Belt........ .... Off-n-On ... NC USA
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| Posted: Sun Nov 26, 2017 11:11 am Post subject: Re: Our reliance on Tech in new cars |
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Ahh yes.. new auto high tech.. how I loathe the so.... mainly because being a dealer vehicle tech .. I have to deal with change in systems each model year.. or mid year.... or the next time there is a software anomaly..
They in general.. mean to me.. constant complaints.. of normal operation.. that a customer does not like.. or simply does not know how to operate..
Auto manufacturers are out... to out do the competition.. some safety things are good ideas.. some are.. just the next fancy gizmo..
I could write the most hilarious book of stupid complaints of customers about their new auto toys.. and the actions or .. inaction's of their gizmos.
The days of the young ones.. out in the shop or driveway with mom or dad tinkering on the car learning basic maintenance.. are mostly long gone..
That's good for my profession. ..
I for one.. like the safety factor of tire pressure sensors and monitoring.. as it was.. (IS) a neglected item... I dont like the change in season.. because every little ole lady man woman and child comes rolling into service with a low pressure light on..
Also.. oil level and low sensors .. not many really check oil levels on modern cars.. engines across many manufactures after 07 really started gulping oil where never before. Especially after about 40k miles.. You can thank the low ring tension from trying to meet CAFE standards..
Fuel mileage went up.. for the trade off in oil consumption.
The oil degradation and stretch intervals amplified the issue..
I can do without a LOT of the bells and whistles.. .. but if you want them. by all means.. get them.. Just dont whine.. after the warranty runs out .. why it costs so much to repair them..
The younger generation can operate the new auto "media" devices with ease.. as they are used to that tech...
I tend to take the crash course with each new "infotainment system"..as what I learn today.. is obsolete tomorrow.. so no use in needing to retain it.
When sales puts an 82 year old a new Caddy.. its like pulling the plunger on a pinball machine... "TILT"...
The latest was a lady who was looking to buy a new XT5.. and complained the back up camera was off center.. and only showed 1/3 of the bumper..
I told the sales person.. sell her one without a camera..
He wasn't even sure If they sold one like that.. .
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Bobnotch
Samba Member
Joined: July 06, 2003
Posts: 22425
Location: Kimball, Mi
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| Posted: Sun Nov 26, 2017 11:12 am Post subject: Re: Our reliance on Tech in new cars |
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| scottyrocks wrote: |
| Bobnotch wrote: |
| raygreenwood wrote: |
I have no issues with a lot of the new "systems" technology in the newer cars....as long as it is not a road distraction to use...and as long as it does cause a reliability problem.
Tire pressure monitors....don't need them....nothing but trouble. The ones my car has are too sensitive. On a cool morning...starting a long highway drive...like clockwork....at about the same mile marker the light goes on as the temp and tire pressure goes up.
Ray |
On my son's 08 Civic, if you have a TPM light on, you can't turn off the traction control system. With the TC system on, max speed in light (or heavy) snow is about 25 mph, and the car IS fighting itself to go in a straight line. He says it can get very scary driving the 3 miles to work in the winter (all city streets) with the TC on. That's his only real complaint about the car. |
I had a '12 Civic with the in-wheel sensor system. In short, what a PITA.
My '15 Civic has the newer sensorless system. No more hassles changing wheels.
I drive (and drove) both of these cars with the TC off (light lit). I can manage my own wheelspin, tyvm. I can also check my tires with a gauge all by myself. TPMS is one of those things for the masses who, as stated here earlier, want everything done for them.
I abhor touch-screens. I bought the lowest level model I could get (the lowest level model) partly because it doesn't have a touch-screen. And yes, I hunted around for a 5MT because for me it's three pedals or bust.
We are enthusiasts. We like doing things ourselves. We are in the very definite minority. |
In his defense, he didn't know about the TPM system having it's fingers in the TC system. It wasn't until he talked with someone at the dealership (parts guy?) that he was informed that as long as the TPMS light was lit, he couldn't turn off the TC system. He's since put on his winter tires and wheels, so that he can turn off the TC system now.
Myself, I just drive an old 99 Accord with 5 speed. Yeah, it's got air bags (not Takata), but it doesn't have ABS or any of the extra BS that comes with having ABS. Power windows, power locks, and trunk release, along with locking the rear seat (so it won't fold down), along with AM FM cassette, power steering, AC and cruise are all it has. Nothing fancy, and not much to break down. I like it. Yeah, it's 19 years old and has 233K on it, but it still looks contemporary, and doesn't have a lot of rust. My winter beater is a 92 Geo Prizm with AT an loads of rust. The heat works great, and that's about it. It's a manual windows and locks kind of car (very reminiscent of my VW). With 177+K on it, and loads of rust, I figure it's got another winter or 2 left in it before it goes to scrap for being too rusty to drive. 
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| "Friends are God's way of apologizing for relatives." |
| Tram wrote: |
| People keep confusing "restored" and "restroyed". |
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Cali_Army_Guy
Samba Member
Joined: March 19, 2015
Posts: 2094
Location: Stockton, CA
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| Posted: Sun Nov 26, 2017 2:59 pm Post subject: Re: Our reliance on Tech in new cars |
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Guess I’m the anomaly here then. Even at 7-8 years of owning a car that’s still a short amount of time really. Don’t get me wrong, I absolutely love my ‘66 but at the same time though I love my wife’s ‘15 Passat just as much. Heated seats, Bluetooth, cruise control, power everything. Plus I don’t really concern myself with the “cost” of owning it. To me having a car payment is just a part of life. Same as having an electric bill, a cable bill, phone bill, etc. I’ve had all these same bills since I turned 18 in 1999 and it’s just normal everyday life for me. Could I pay it off and keep it for 20 years? Sure, but to me that’s a hassle. I don’t have the time or desire to work on stuff myself. Even working on my ‘66 is a burden and a waste of time that I could be spending doing something else. So much easier to just drop a modern car off for warranty work jump in a rental and continue on with life. Entire process takes less time than an oil change and valve adjustment/tune up on my ‘66. I guess I’m just one of those people that enjoy the technology of living in 2017. I find it absolutely amazing that with amazon and amazon fresh I could literally survive until I die of old age by simply using my iPhone.
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2015 VW Passat Wolfsburg Edition
1966 VW Beetle - Sold |
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TDCTDI
Samba Advocatus Diaboli
Joined: August 31, 2013
Posts: 12856
Location: North Carolina
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| Posted: Sun Nov 26, 2017 4:36 pm Post subject: Re: Our reliance on Tech in new cars |
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You'd be rich if you could get over that "car payments are a way of life" mentality & paid yourself that car payment every month.
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Everybody born before 1975 has a story, good, bad, or indifferent, about a VW.
GOFUNDYOURSELF, quit asking everyone to do it for you!
An air cooled VW will make you a hoarder.
Do something, anything, to your project every day, and you will eventually complete it. |
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Cali_Army_Guy
Samba Member
Joined: March 19, 2015
Posts: 2094
Location: Stockton, CA
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| Posted: Sun Nov 26, 2017 4:39 pm Post subject: Re: Our reliance on Tech in new cars |
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| TDCTDI wrote: |
| You'd be rich if you could get over that "car payments are a way of life" mentality & paid yourself that car payment every month. |
Don’t need to be rich to be happy. Besides I’d only be saving about $350 a month which would just go to more nights out or more videos games and whatnot.
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2015 VW Passat Wolfsburg Edition
1966 VW Beetle - Sold |
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