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NASkeet
Samba Member
Joined: April 29, 2006
Posts: 2958
Location: South Benfleet, Essex, UK
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 Posted: Fri Mar 18, 2016 9:47 am Post subject: |
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| Brian wrote: |
Sorry, I can't hear you over all this wind noise
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Was this car actually seen driving on the public highway or was it in a demolition derby at the local race track!?!  
_________________
Regards.
Nigel A. Skeet
Independent tutor (semi-retired) of mathematics, physics, technology & engineering for secondary, tertiary, further & higher education.
Much modified, RHD 1973 VW "1600" Type 2 Westfalia Continental campervan, with the World's only decent, cross-over-arm, SWF pantograph rear-window wiper
Onetime member, plus former Technical Editor & Editor of Transporter Talk magazine
Volkswagen Type 2 Owners' Club (Great Britain)
http://www.vwt2oc.net |
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Stuartzickefoose
Samba Post Whore
Joined: February 07, 2008
Posts: 10350
Location: SoCal for now...
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| Posted: Wed Apr 27, 2016 4:13 pm Post subject: |
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| germansupplyscott wrote: |
| topaz. wrote: |
I spend some time and I made this diagram.
Part of it is original.
All I need is a confirmation of the colors like the Green/Red that goes from the small pump to the relay and White/Black from 56 light switch to 56 relay.
Can a Samba member with original wiring harness look and tell me what the exact colors are, I can alternate them and send it to Everett.
Thanks.
Here is the original.
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where did these diagrams come from? did you draw the upper one? looks like the upper one is for the headlight washers system. can you post a legend for the coloured diagram? |
What is E1?
And I hope I don't still act like that...
_________________
Stuart Zickefoose
2011 Jetta Sportwagen TDi 6 speed manual
206-841-7324
[email protected] |
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NASkeet
Samba Member
Joined: April 29, 2006
Posts: 2958
Location: South Benfleet, Essex, UK
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| Posted: Mon Jun 27, 2016 8:47 am Post subject: Re: 1968~79 VW Type 2 window wiper & washer upgrades |
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Here are a couple of links re modifying the existing 1968~72, 1973~74 & 1975~79 VW Type 2 windscreen wiper & washer switches' to operate electrically-pumped washers:
Leigh Harris, "How to modify those windscreen washers so they actually work! Part 1", Club VW (Australia), May 2005.
http://www.clubvw.org.au/oldart014#ele22
Leigh Harris, "How to modify those windscreen washers so they actually work! Part 2", Club VW (Australia), September 2005.
http://www.clubvw.org.au/oldart014#ele23
_________________
Regards.
Nigel A. Skeet
Independent tutor (semi-retired) of mathematics, physics, technology & engineering for secondary, tertiary, further & higher education.
Much modified, RHD 1973 VW "1600" Type 2 Westfalia Continental campervan, with the World's only decent, cross-over-arm, SWF pantograph rear-window wiper
Onetime member, plus former Technical Editor & Editor of Transporter Talk magazine
Volkswagen Type 2 Owners' Club (Great Britain)
http://www.vwt2oc.net |
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Tcash
Samba Member
Joined: July 20, 2011
Posts: 12844
Location: San Jose, California, USA
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Tcash
Samba Member
Joined: July 20, 2011
Posts: 12844
Location: San Jose, California, USA
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| Posted: Thu Sep 14, 2017 5:34 pm Post subject: Windshield Wiper Delay |
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Windshield Wiper Delay
6 wire 5 position Wiper switch, with lock out removed.
| busdaddy wrote: |
| Most 75+ switches are already 5 position, there's a small tab of plastic on the outer column housing that stops it from going past off to the delay position. You still have to add a wire to the harness that plugs into it though. |
Delay Relay 111 955 531 > IGE601.143
| telford dorr wrote: |
Note that on the relay used in this model, the 'S' terminal actually has three states:
- grounded = disabled
- floating = intermittent sweep
- +12 vdc = immediately cancel intermittent sweep
This last state saves the wiper motor if you turn the wiper switch to 'fast' while an intermittent wipe is in progress, thus feeding power into the 'fast' and 'slow' motor brushes at the same time. This feature is needed because the intermittent wipe relay is spliced into the 53 wire instead of the 53e wire, which would have eliminated the problem. |
Link
____________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
https://forums.aussieveedubbers.com/viewtopic.php?tid=86544
Intermittent Wipers!
I modded the switch
Last edited by Tcash on Thu Sep 14, 2017 6:34 pm; edited 5 times in total |
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Tcash
Samba Member
Joined: July 20, 2011
Posts: 12844
Location: San Jose, California, USA
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Tcash
Samba Member
Joined: July 20, 2011
Posts: 12844
Location: San Jose, California, USA
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otiswesty
Samba Member
Joined: November 21, 2006
Posts: 1730
Location: Portland
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| Posted: Thu Nov 30, 2017 11:37 pm Post subject: Re: Intermediate wiper and a Headlight washer |
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| topaz. wrote: |
I spend some time and I made this diagram.
Part of it is original.
All I need is a confirmation of the colors like the Green/Red that goes from the small pump to the relay and White/Black from 56 light switch to 56 relay.
Can a Samba member with original wiring harness look and tell me what the exact colors are, I can alternate them and send it to Everett.
Thanks.
Yes its an Intermediate wiper and a Headlight washer system together. 
E1 Switch?
E22 Wiper Switch
V Wiper Motor.
V13 Small Pump. (Sorry I forgot to place a letter, I will)
V11 Large Pump.
J31 Intermediate Relay (Old Correct Style) 5 prong.
J39 Head Light Washer Relay.
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So it looks like the small wiper pump wiring comes directly off the switch and not through a relay. Stewart and I installed the intermittent wiper switch a couple of weeks ago and I am looking to get the washer trigger moved over from a separate switch to the washer stalk.
According to these diagrams, the output from the switch should be powered rather than an interrupted ground wire.
_________________
1978 Sage Green P22 Westfalia
1989 T3 Syncro Single cab
Just a regular guy |
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NASkeet
Samba Member
Joined: April 29, 2006
Posts: 2958
Location: South Benfleet, Essex, UK
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| Posted: Tue Feb 18, 2020 9:33 am Post subject: Re: 1968~79 VW Type 2, window wiper & washer upgrades |
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| NASkeet wrote: |
Having managed to modify and retro-fit, an almost optimal, rear-window wiper (the alternative, Chevette based wiper, is slightly closer to optimal), of almost factory-fitted appearance, was a great improvement, but as you have probably all found, the rear window sometimes get really filthy, when travelling at high speed (i.e. more than 45 mph!) on damp roads, so I really needed to supplement it with some sort of window washer system.
Ideally, I would have liked to have used, the SWW wash-wiper blades, of the type that I have for my front windshield wipers, but alas, I could find no convenient way of routing the flexible rubber tubing, so that it did not interfere, with either of the wiper-system's cross-over-arms or other components.
Once again, I resorted to my Swedish university-friend, who was able to obtain on my behalf, a VDO accessory, window washer kit (illustrated in a Swedish, car accessories' mail-order catalogue, he gave me several years earlier!), which comprised: (a) wiper-arm mounted, clip-on, washer-jet housing, with four adjustable ball nozzles; (b) flexible rubber tubing; (c) three, tubing to wiper-arm fastening clips; and (d) right-angled, through-bodywork connector. The following image, scanned from the product packaging, is posted in The Samba Gallery:
Accessory, wiper-arm mounted, clip-on, washer-jet housing, with four adjustable ball-nozzles, suitable for mounting on front or rear-wiper arms.
VDO part No. V 1048, imported into Sweden, by K. G. Knuttson, purchased at a swedish car accessory shop, during the early-1990s, for my 1973 VW Type 2, cross-over-arm, double-linkage, pantograph, rear-window wiper system.
The top photograph, posted in The Samba Gallery, shows the main components of the universal, VDO/SWF wiper-arm mounting, clip-on, washer-jet kit, which I used for the cross-over-arm, pantograph rear-window wiper system, of my 1973 VW Type 2.
I could also have used two kits of this type, for my front windshield wipers, had I not previously used SWW wash/wiper blades.
The VDO window-washer kit (VDO part No. V 1048), was imported into Sweden, by K. G. Knuttson, whose details to the best of my knowledge, are as follows:
K. G. Knuttson AB, Hammerbacken 8, S 19181 - Sölentuna, Sweden.
Tel. (International) +46 08-923000
email: [email protected]
I have seen, a mid-1990s MAN B-163 truck (British, P-prefix, registration number plate) and a 2005 MAN LE8.150 truck (British, 05 registration plate), each with three front windscreen wipers, equipped with a virtually identical washer system; albeit with a single, 75 mm long, one-piece, flexible-hose retaining clip, on each wiper arm.
I have also seen on the modern Mercedes Vito vans, having a single top-hinged rear hatch, a factory-fitted rear-window washer system, which utilises a wiper-arm mounted, SWF washer jet fitting, with four adjustable ball nozzles, identical to that found in the aforementioned VDO accessory kit; the flexible rubber hose for which, is fastened to the rear-wiper arm, by means of a 90 mm long, one-piece retaining clip.
Regards.
Nigel A. Skeet |
The wiper-arm mounted clip-on, four-nozzle, window-washer unit (Item 113) and 90 mm clip hose-retaining clip) from the Mercedes Vito van / minibus with top hinged rear hatch, can be used on other vehicles (including the 1968~79 VW Type 2) with 9 mm windscreen-wiper arms.
_________________
Regards.
Nigel A. Skeet
Independent tutor (semi-retired) of mathematics, physics, technology & engineering for secondary, tertiary, further & higher education.
Much modified, RHD 1973 VW "1600" Type 2 Westfalia Continental campervan, with the World's only decent, cross-over-arm, SWF pantograph rear-window wiper
Onetime member, plus former Technical Editor & Editor of Transporter Talk magazine
Volkswagen Type 2 Owners' Club (Great Britain)
http://www.vwt2oc.net |
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NASkeet
Samba Member
Joined: April 29, 2006
Posts: 2958
Location: South Benfleet, Essex, UK
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| Posted: Tue Feb 18, 2020 9:39 am Post subject: Re: 1968~79 VW Type 2 window wiper & washer upgrades |
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Here is some more literature pertaining to the SVD/SWW wash-wiper blades and the VDO kit of clip-on four-nozzle window-washers with three hose retaining clips and right-angled, through-bulkhead connector.
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/archives/manuals/svd_sww_wash_wiper_blades_sweden.php
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/archives/lit/vdo_wiper_arm_jet_sweden.php
_________________
Regards.
Nigel A. Skeet
Independent tutor (semi-retired) of mathematics, physics, technology & engineering for secondary, tertiary, further & higher education.
Much modified, RHD 1973 VW "1600" Type 2 Westfalia Continental campervan, with the World's only decent, cross-over-arm, SWF pantograph rear-window wiper
Onetime member, plus former Technical Editor & Editor of Transporter Talk magazine
Volkswagen Type 2 Owners' Club (Great Britain)
http://www.vwt2oc.net |
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NASkeet
Samba Member
Joined: April 29, 2006
Posts: 2958
Location: South Benfleet, Essex, UK
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| Posted: Mon Mar 02, 2020 8:56 am Post subject: Re: 1968~79 VW Type 2 window wiper & washer upgrades |
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I have just discovered another source of wiper-arm mounted clip-on washer-jet units, including the variety included in the VDO kit I have, and as factory-fitted to the Mercedes Vito and MAN trucks.
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Mercedes-Vito-V-Class-S...SwEeFVHmmv
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/MAN-Trucks-plus-more-Wi...xy14VRKhKz
There are also washer-jet conversion kits:
https://www.ebay.co.uk/sch/m.html?_ssn=singlewiper...p;_sacat=0
There are also hybrid wiper blades with integral washer jets for some modern cars:
https://www.ebay.co.uk/str/wipexthewiperspecialist...8177035011
_________________
Regards.
Nigel A. Skeet
Independent tutor (semi-retired) of mathematics, physics, technology & engineering for secondary, tertiary, further & higher education.
Much modified, RHD 1973 VW "1600" Type 2 Westfalia Continental campervan, with the World's only decent, cross-over-arm, SWF pantograph rear-window wiper
Onetime member, plus former Technical Editor & Editor of Transporter Talk magazine
Volkswagen Type 2 Owners' Club (Great Britain)
http://www.vwt2oc.net |
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jonnydot
Samba Member
Joined: March 27, 2021
Posts: 38
Location: Australia
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| Posted: Sat Nov 06, 2021 4:49 am Post subject: Re: 1968~79 VW Type 2 window wiper & washer upgrades |
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| Would any one have the part number for the column mounted intermittent wiper switch with the electric washer pump activator imbedded for a RHD 76 Bay ? Is 211-953-519g the correct part or is this a standard switch? |
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NASkeet
Samba Member
Joined: April 29, 2006
Posts: 2958
Location: South Benfleet, Essex, UK
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| Posted: Wed Mar 09, 2022 12:56 pm Post subject: |
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| NASkeet wrote: |
Somewhere in Redhill, Surrey, England, sometime during 1988, I saw parked in a street, a 1968~79 VW Type 2, equipped with a rear-window wiper, which was of the direct-drive type, whose wiper spindle passed through the bodywork bulge below the rear-window glass and the drive-motor was visible inside, protruding from inside the rear hatch. In addition to being an untidy installation, it likewise did not appear to confer a significant sweep area. Sadly, I didn't have my camera with me!
However, the following picture, featured recently on the Internet website, of Cool Campers, in Throop, Bournemouth, Dorset, England, illustrates an external view, of what is a similar, if not identical installation, on a left-hand drive, 1978 Swedish Telecom van. Also just visible, is what might be, a single window washer jet housing, mounted in the top, left-hand corner of the rear hatch.
One of my local acquaintances (lives less than 10 minutes walk from my home), named James Biffin, owns a second-hand, Swedish Army specification, 1975 VW "1800" Type 2 Kombi, that had at sometime been fitted, with some form of rear-window wiper & washer system, which James suspects, might have been a relatively common feature, of Swedish Army specification, 1968~79 VW Type 2 Kombis. So far, I know of two other Swedish Army specification, 1968~79 VW Type 2 Kombis which had or still have, rear-window wipers.
The Late Bay » General » Show Us Your Ride » Rambo - Swedish Army Microbus with special slider
http://thelatebay.com/index.php?topic=17018.0
A Swedish Army specification, 1975 VW 1800 Type 2 Kombi, with missing rear-window wiper - same vehicle with Swedish and British licence plates?
Another Swedish army specification, 1968~79 VW Type 2 Kombi, with a damaged rear-window wiper
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Earlier today, I stumbled upon the following topic thread, which included a link to the following illustration on the website of Ronald Schmidt
Forum Index > Bay Window Bus > Identify this Swedish part
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=673346
https://www.ronsc.de
www.vwpix.org/T2/Prospekte/1977_00_Tillbehoer_VW_Transportbilar/.tmp/Seite05.jpg.html
Item 15 – BAKRUTETORKARE [T 70 00 00] – Nigel’s note: rear-window wiper, as deduced from picture
Alla dellar till bakrutetorkaren ligger väl skyddade, så att lasten inte kan skade konstruktionen. Med parallelkopplad spolning. Passar fr o m -68 t o m -75
Translates as:
Item 15 - REAR WINDOW WIPER [T 70 00 00]
All dells for the rear window wiper are well protected, so that the load cannot damage the structure. With parallel flushing. Suitable from -68 to -75
Item 17 – STRÅLKASTARTORKARE [T 70 02 25] – Nigel’s note: headlamp wipers & low-pressure headlamp washers, as deduced from picture
För VW Transporter med 12V El-System t o m -73. I satsen ingår alla detaljer för monteringen. Monteringensanvisning medföljer
Translates as:
Item 17 – HEADLAMP WIPERS [T 70 02 25]
For VW Transporter with 12V El-System up to -73. The kit includes all the details for the assembly. Mounting instructions included
It shows shows a rear-window wiper similar if not identical to those previously seen on other Swedish specification 1968~79 VW Type 2s, plus headlamp wipers which I have not previously known even existed!
_________________
Regards.
Nigel A. Skeet
Independent tutor (semi-retired) of mathematics, physics, technology & engineering for secondary, tertiary, further & higher education.
Much modified, RHD 1973 VW "1600" Type 2 Westfalia Continental campervan, with the World's only decent, cross-over-arm, SWF pantograph rear-window wiper
Onetime member, plus former Technical Editor & Editor of Transporter Talk magazine
Volkswagen Type 2 Owners' Club (Great Britain)
http://www.vwt2oc.net |
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Belly61
Samba Member
Joined: July 15, 2021
Posts: 15
Location: Fife
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| Posted: Fri Sep 30, 2022 12:48 pm Post subject: Re: Intermediate wiper and a Headlight washer |
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I've taken this route recently. Replaced my original switch with a 211-955-501-C version with 6 wires via a 5 pin wiper relay. I've branched off S1 to also power my swedish water tank washer pump.
I have found a problem with the wiper still moving intermittently while in the park position that I'm looking back over!!
| Quote: |
Here is the original.
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Belly61
Samba Member
Joined: July 15, 2021
Posts: 15
Location: Fife
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| Posted: Mon Oct 10, 2022 3:37 am Post subject: Re: 1968~79 VW Type 2 window wiper & washer upgrades |
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| NASkeet wrote: |
Here are a couple of links re modifying the existing 1968~72, 1973~74 & 1975~79 VW Type 2 windscreen wiper & washer switches' to operate electrically-pumped washers:
Leigh Harris, "How to modify those windscreen washers so they actually work! Part 1", Club VW (Australia), May 2005.
http://www.clubvw.org.au/oldart014#ele22
Leigh Harris, "How to modify those windscreen washers so they actually work! Part 2", Club VW (Australia), September 2005.
http://www.clubvw.org.au/oldart014#ele23 |
In your exerience has anyone had a problem of not parking in the stalk park position. It continues to swipe intermittently?
I'm using 6-wire switch 211 955 5001 C wired accordng to the common diagram nr 7. I do however branch off the S-S1 wire to pwer my washer pump...
Using this relay from Schofields until I find 111-955-531 type
Regards
Ian |
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NASkeet
Samba Member
Joined: April 29, 2006
Posts: 2958
Location: South Benfleet, Essex, UK
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| Posted: Mon Oct 10, 2022 10:24 am Post subject: Re: 1968~79 VW Type 2 window wiper & washer upgrades |
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| Belly61 wrote: |
| NASkeet wrote: |
Here are a couple of links re modifying the existing 1968~72, 1973~74 & 1975~79 VW Type 2 windscreen wiper & washer switches' to operate electrically-pumped washers:
Leigh Harris, "How to modify those windscreen washers so they actually work! Part 1", Club VW (Australia), May 2005.
http://www.clubvw.org.au/oldart014#ele22
Leigh Harris, "How to modify those windscreen washers so they actually work! Part 2", Club VW (Australia), September 2005.
http://www.clubvw.org.au/oldart014#ele23 |
In your exerience has anyone had a problem of not parking in the stalk park position. It continues to swipe intermittently?
I'm using 6-wire switch 211 955 5001 C wired accordng to the common diagram nr 7. I do however branch off the S-S1 wire to pwer my washer pump...
Using this relay from Schofields until I find 111-955-531 type
Regards
Ian |
It's difficult to see what is printed on that relay.
It might be helpful to transcribe all of the script including the terminal labels and draw a neat sketch showing the spade-terminal sizes. in general, relays typically have 6.3 mm and/or 4.8 mm and/or 2.8 mm spade-terminals, if my memory serves me correctly)
There are intermittent wiper relays used by VW-Audi, Vauxhall and others which are not compatible with 1970s vintage VW vehicles, of which the following are examples:
_________________
Regards.
Nigel A. Skeet
Independent tutor (semi-retired) of mathematics, physics, technology & engineering for secondary, tertiary, further & higher education.
Much modified, RHD 1973 VW "1600" Type 2 Westfalia Continental campervan, with the World's only decent, cross-over-arm, SWF pantograph rear-window wiper
Onetime member, plus former Technical Editor & Editor of Transporter Talk magazine
Volkswagen Type 2 Owners' Club (Great Britain)
http://www.vwt2oc.net |
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Belly61
Samba Member
Joined: July 15, 2021
Posts: 15
Location: Fife
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| Posted: Mon Oct 10, 2022 3:31 pm Post subject: Re: 1968~79 VW Type 2 window wiper & washer upgrades |
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| Quote: |
It's difficult to see what is printed on that relay.
It might be helpful to transcribe all of the script including the terminal labels and draw a neat sketch showing the spade-terminal sizes. in general, relays typically have 6.3 mm and/or 4.8 mm and/or 2.8 mm spade-terminals, if my memory serves me correctly)
There are intermittent wiper relays used by VW-Audi, Vauxhall and others which are not compatible with 1970s vintage VW vehicles, of which the following are examples:
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Here is a more useful picture of the terminals, was just described as 111 955 531 on AH Schofields shop. I've since ordered a more vintage version to try out from I believe a 914 porsche.
As I mentioned wash/wipe 2-3 strokes, fast and slow speed all work when operating the stalk just park and intermittent stalk postions result in intermittent wiper motion. I'm not relay savvy enough to know what would cause the motor to not park.
Black wire 53 split to take to relay 53s & 53m
Brown S1 switch wire to relay S and spare spade for washer motor
Brown /white 31 switch wire to earth in 4-way connector with relay 31
Fused black/grey to relay 15, wipe motor 53a and switch 53a
Hope that looks clear enough, its a new wiper motor that has blue, red ,yellow and green wires not the standard...
Regards
Ian |
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NASkeet
Samba Member
Joined: April 29, 2006
Posts: 2958
Location: South Benfleet, Essex, UK
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| Posted: Thu Oct 13, 2022 10:42 am Post subject: Re: 1968~79 VW Type 2 window wiper & washer upgrades |
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| Belly61 wrote: |
Here is a more useful picture of the terminals, was just described as 111 955 531 on AH Schofields shop. I've since ordered a more vintage version to try out from I believe a 914 porsche.
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At the moment, your electrical cables resemble tangled spaghetti!
I am not presently in a position to comment on the appropriate VW part number of the intermittent-wiper relay appropriate to the 1973~74 & 1975~79 VW Type 2s, but the terminal labels S, 15, 31, 53M & 53S are consistent with what I would expect, based upon relay J31 terminal labels in the following electrical-circuit wiring diagrams.
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/archives/info/wiringt2.php
1974 VW Type 2 windscreen-wiper-delay and front & relay fog-light circuit
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/archives/info/wiring/b..._delay.jpg
1975 onward, VW Type 2 windscreen-wiper-delay circuit
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/archives/info/wiring/baybus_1975up_wiper_delay.jpg
Examination of both of the electrical-circuit wiring diagrams, illustrate the electrical terminal and cable-colour connections, for the five-terminal, five-cable wiper switch E22 to be as follows.
Switch E22 terminal S1 > brown cable > relay J31 terminal S
Switch E22 terminal 53 > black cable > relay J31 terminal 53S
Switch E22 terminal 53a > black/grey cable > wiper-motor V terminal 53a
Switch E22 terminal 53b > black/yellow cable > wiper-motor V terminal 53b
Switch E22 terminal 53e > black/green cable > wiper-motor V terminal 53e
Although relay J31 is described as “Relais für Wasch-Wisch-Intervallautomatik”, close examination of these electrical-circuit wiring diagrams, reveals no electrical windscreen-washer pump motor or electrical connections to one, so the description “relay for wash-wipe with automatic interval” might be a misnomer.
It’s presently my belief, that there was only ever an intermittent wiper option, rather an intermittent wiper & washer option! So far as I am aware, electrically-pumped washers were only ever fitted to those 1974 & 1975~79 VW Type 2s which also had headlamp washers. If anyone knows otherwise and/or has details of the appropriate component part numbers and/or the corresponding electrical-circuit wiring diagrams, then please enlighten us accordingly
| Belly61 wrote: |
Black wire 53 split to take to relay 53s & 53m
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My examination of the electrical-circuit wiring diagram indicates that:
Switch E22 terminal 53 > black cable > relay J31 terminal 53S
Wiper-motor V terminal 53 > black cable > relay J31 terminal 53M
Although there are two black electrical cables (a potential source of confusion!), the electrical-circuit wiring diagram indicates that they are completely separate and should NOT be joined & connected in the way you have described.
| Belly61 wrote: |
Brown S1 switch wire to relay S and spare spade for washer motor
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Apart from the spare spade connection for a windscreen-washer pump motor, this seems to be consistent with the electrical-circuit wiring diagram.
Switch E22 terminal S1 > brown cable > relay J31 terminal S
I am presently uncertain about how & when you wish the windscreen washers to operate, when the windscreen wipers are switched to the different modes of operation!?! I suspect that your intention is that the windscreen washers should operate as follows:
• Wipers operating continuously at fast speed – washers only function when operated manually by driver
• Wipers operating continuously at slow speed – washers only function when operated manually by driver
• Wipers operating intermittently for 2~3 sweeps at slow speed interspersed by longer intervals with no sweeps – washers function automatically during the 2~3 sweeps but do not function during the intervals with no sweeps
I don’t presently know whether this regime for intermittent wash-wipe would be achieved by also connecting an additional brown cable from the switch E22 terminal S1 to the positive terminal of the windscreen-washer pump motor.
| Belly61 wrote: |
Brown /white 31 switch wire to earth in 4-way connector with relay 31
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My interpretation of the electrical-circuit wiring diagrams, is that the switch E22 is earthed via its metal casing, but that there is no distinct terminal 31 or brown cable associated with it. However wiper-motor V terminal 31 and relay J31 terminal 31, are earthed via brown cables. I don’t see any brown/white cables on the above electrical-circuit wiring diagrams!
In contrast, the stalk-switch E (six terminals labelled 31, 53, 53a, 53b, 53c & 53e) associated with headlamp-washers, as illustrated in the following electrical-circuit wiring diagram, is shown to have a distinct terminal 31, with a brown/black cable leading to headlamp-washer relay J39 terminal S. According to the circuit diagram, the switch E does not have a terminal S1.
1974~79, VW Type 2 windscreen-wiper and windscreen & headlamp washer circuit
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/archives/info/wiring/baybus_1974up_headlight_washer.jpg
Switch E terminal 31 > brown/black cable > headlamp-washer relay J39 terminal S
Switch E terminal 53 > black cable > relay J31 terminal 53S
Switch E terminal 53a > black/grey cable > wiper-motor V terminal 53a
Switch E terminal 53b > black/yellow cable > wiper-motor V terminal 53b
Switch E terminal 53c > red/black cable > windscreen-washer pump-motor V5 positive terminal
Switch E terminal 53e > green cable > wiper-motor V terminal 53e
Headlamp-washer relay J39 terminal 31 > brown cable > Earth / Ground
Headlamp-washer relay J39 terminal 56 > white/black cable > headlamp-switch E1 terminal 56
It’s possible that there might be one or more errors in one or more of the electrical-circuit wiring diagram, which is not unknown! Several years ago, I discovered a serious error pertaining to the headlamps circuit, in one of the electrical-circuit wiring diagrams, in the Volkswagen of America, 1968~79 VW Type 2 manual, published by Robert Bentley, which I reported to the publisher, resulting in a new revised edition being published.
_________________
Regards.
Nigel A. Skeet
Independent tutor (semi-retired) of mathematics, physics, technology & engineering for secondary, tertiary, further & higher education.
Much modified, RHD 1973 VW "1600" Type 2 Westfalia Continental campervan, with the World's only decent, cross-over-arm, SWF pantograph rear-window wiper
Onetime member, plus former Technical Editor & Editor of Transporter Talk magazine
Volkswagen Type 2 Owners' Club (Great Britain)
http://www.vwt2oc.net |
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Belly61
Samba Member
Joined: July 15, 2021
Posts: 15
Location: Fife
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| Posted: Fri Oct 14, 2022 12:21 pm Post subject: Re: 1968~79 VW Type 2 window wiper & washer upgrades |
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The brown/ white wire comes from terminal 31 in the switch so I believe it can only be an earth and seems to correspond to the line from the switch to the no5 dot.
For some unknown reason the 31 switch wire doesnt seem to be labelled on any circuit diagram. Here is the back of my switch where terminal numbers are visible. I'm having trouble finding a circuit corresponding to this switch.211-955-501-C
The red wire is the equivalent of the standard black wiper motor wire normally connected to the switch. I believe it is correct to cut this and send the motor side to relay 53m and switch side to 53s which is what I hope i was showing in my picture. The spades on this enable me to bypass the relay and go back to the direct connection of 53 switch to 53 motor...I do believe I've connected this as per your description
Examination of both of the electrical-circuit wiring diagrams, illustrate the electrical terminal and cable-colour connections, for the five-terminal, five-cable wiper switch E22 to be as follows.
Switch E22 terminal S1 > brown cable > relay J31 terminal S
Switch E22 terminal 53 > black cable > relay J31 terminal 53S
Switch E22 terminal 53a > black/grey cable > wiper-motor V terminal 53a
Switch E22 terminal 53b > black/yellow cable > wiper-motor V terminal 53b
Switch E22 terminal 53e > black/green cable > wiper-motor V terminal 53e
Although relay J31 is described as “Relais für Wasch-Wisch-Intervallautomatik”, close examination of these electrical-circuit wiring diagrams, reveals no electrical windscreen-washer pump motor or electrical connections to one, so the description “relay for wash-wipe with automatic interval” might be a misnomer.
It’s presently my belief, that there was only ever an intermittent wiper option, rather an intermittent wiper & washer option! So far as I am aware, electrically-pumped washers were only fitted to those 1974 & 1975~79 VW Type 2s which also had headlamp washers. If anyone knows otherwise and/or has details of the appropriate component part numbers and/or the corresponding electrical-circuit wiring diagrams, then please enlighten us accordingly
| Belly61 wrote: |
Black wire 53 split to take to relay 53s & 53m
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My examination of the electrical-circuit wiring diagram indicates that:
Switch E22 terminal 53 > black cable > relay J31 terminal 53S
Wiper-motor V terminal 53 > black cable > relay J31 terminal 53M
Although there are two black electrical cables (a potential source of confusion!), the electrical-circuit wiring diagram indicates that they are completely separate and should NOT be joined & connected in the way you have described.
| Belly61 wrote: |
Brown S1 switch wire to relay S and spare spade for washer motor
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Apart from the spare spade connection for a windscreen-washer pump motor, this seems to be consistent with the electrical-circuit wiring diagram.
Switch E22 terminal S1 > brown cable > relay J31 terminal S
I am presently uncertain about how & when you wish the windscreen washers to operate, when the windscreen wipers are switched to the different modes of operation!?! I suspect that your intention is that the windscreen washers should operate as follows:
• Wipers operating continuously at fast speed – washers only function when operated manually by driver
• Wipers operating continuously at slow speed – washers only function when operated manually by driver
• Wipers operating intermittently for 2~3 sweeps at slow speed interspersed by longer intervals with no sweeps – washers function automatically during the 2~3 sweeps but do not function during the intervals with no sweeps
Pulling up on my stalk is operating the wipers 2-3 strokes and operating the washer pump when I have it connected to the spare S terminal. Washer pump operation stops on release of the stalk and the wipers continue 2-3 strokes.
I don’t presently know whether this regime for intermittent wash-wipe would be achieved by also connecting an additional brown cable from the switch E22 terminal S1 to the positive terminal of the windscreen-washer pump motor.
| Belly61 wrote: |
Brown /white 31 switch wire to earth in 4-way connector with relay 31
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My interpretation of the electrical-circuit wiring diagrams, is that the switch E22 is earthed via its metal casing, but that there is no distinct terminal 31 or brown cable associated with it. However wiper-motor V terminal 31 and relay J31 terminal 31, are earthed via brown cables. I don’t see any brown/white cables on the above electrical-circuit wiring diagrams!
In contrast, the stalk-switch E (six terminals labelled 31, 53, 53a, 53b, 53c & 53e) associated with headlamp-washers, as illustrated in the following electrical-circuit wiring diagram, is shown to have a distinct terminal 31, with a brown/black cable leading to headlamp-washer relay J39 terminal S. According to the circuit diagram, the switch E does not have a terminal S1.
1974~79, VW Type 2 windscreen-wiper and windscreen & headlamp washer circuit
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/archives/info/wiring/baybus_1974up_headlight_washer.jpg
Switch E terminal 31 > brown/black cable > headlamp-washer relay J39 terminal S
Switch E terminal 53 > black cable > relay J31 terminal 53S
Switch E terminal 53a > black/grey cable > wiper-motor V terminal 53a
Switch E terminal 53b > black/yellow cable > wiper-motor V terminal 53b
Switch E terminal 53c > red/black cable > windscreen-washer pump-motor V5 positive terminal
Switch E terminal 53e > green cable > wiper-motor V terminal 53e
Headlamp-washer relay J39 terminal 31 > brown cable > Earth / Ground
Headlamp-washer relay J39 terminal 56 > white/black cable > headlamp-switch E1 terminal 56
There is definitely something missing when trying to match different switches to the existing wiring diagrams. I have now sourced a 7-wire switch 211-955-501-D which might help me solve the problem of the wipers never parking. I have found what I think are the correct wiring diagrams for these switches which use the wash/wipe relay and also a standard change over relay. I did think there would be an easy solution for the problem I've experienced but it seems not to be the case...
It’s possible that there might be one or more errors in one or more of the electrical-circuit wiring diagram, which is not unknown! Several years ago, I discovered a serious error pertaining to the headlamps circuit, in one of the electrical-circuit wiring diagrams, in the Volkswagen of America, 1968~79 VW Type 2 manual, published by Robert Bentley, which I reported to the publisher, resulting in a new revised edition being published.[/quote] |
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NASkeet
Samba Member
Joined: April 29, 2006
Posts: 2958
Location: South Benfleet, Essex, UK
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| Posted: Sat Oct 15, 2022 11:09 am Post subject: Re: 1968~79 VW Type 2 window wiper & washer upgrades |
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With the “tangled-spaghetti” in-situ wiring that you photographed, it’s difficult to elucidate what is connected to what!
Ideally, you need to draw a neat schematic diagram of your actual complete windscreen-wiper & washer circuitry; including wiring colours & component terminal labels, plus the standard VW wiring colours that are known to be equivalent to the actual wiring colours of your substitute windscreen-wiper motor.
| Belly61 wrote: |
Brown /white 31 switch wire to earth in 4-way connector with relay 31
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| Belly61 wrote: |
For some unknown reason the 31 switch wire doesn’t seem to be labelled on any circuit diagram. Here is the back of my switch where terminal numbers are visible. I'm having trouble finding a circuit corresponding to this switch. 211-955-501-C
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Your switch as illustrated, certainly has five cable connections, of which one appears to be a brown/white cable connected to a terminal 31.
Brown/white cables are NOT usually connected directly to earth; they typically connect to some sort of earth-switching device [e.g. front courtesy-light to door-pillar-switches OR headlamp dip & flasher relay to headlamp dip & flasher stalk-switch OR dashboard heater-lever associated switch for the 1972~79 VW 17/18/2000 Type 2 heater-booster fan relay (i.e. white-nylon heater-lever spacer with 6•3 mm spade terminal & earth-contact, as retro-fitted to my 1973 VW 1600 Type 2, with 1968~72 VW Type 2 heater & ventilation control-lever assembly!)] which in turn is connected to earth (i.e. ground in USA parlance).
1972~79 VW 17/18/2000 Type 2, heater-control-lever assembly & heater-booster fan's switch
| Belly61 wrote: |
| Pulling up on my stalk is operating the wipers 2-3 strokes and operating the washer pump when I have it connected to the spare S terminal. Washer pump operation stops on release of the stalk and the wipers continue 2-3 strokes. |
What do you mean by a “spare S terminal” and on what component is this S terminal?
When you say “Pulling up on my stalk”, do you mean pulling the switch-stalk towards the steering-wheel and away from the floor, or rotating it around the steering-column like the hands of a clock, parallel to the plane of the steering-wheel?
With the original factory-fitted 1973~74 windscreen wiper & washer stalk-switch [VW part No. 211 955 517 A | stalk shaped like a paddle], pulling the switch-stalk towards the steering-wheel and away from the floor (a momentary, non-latching switch function), would operate the non-electrical, air-pressurised windscreen washers by opening the water valve. Releasing the switch-stalk would close the valve. The valve only remains open whilst one’s finger holds the spring-loaded stalk in the open position! I imagine that this stalk pulling & releasing regime, would have the same effect with washers, on the Swedish specification, 1974 VW Type 2, with electrically-pumped windscreen washers and headlamp washers.
To operate a non-standard, simultaneous intermittent wiper & washer facility, one would probably need to make an additional connection to the positive terminal of the windscreen-washer pump, from a different type of wiper-delay relay (i.e. not VW part No. 111 955 531).
To determine the operating characteristics of your existing switch (VW part No. 211-955-501-C), I would suggest that you perform electrical-continuity checks, between all possible pairs of terminals / cables, with the switch’s stalk lever in the OFF position and each of its ON positions; with the switch disconnected from the vehicle’s electrical system. With five switch terminals / cables, there are 10 possible pair-combinations 5C2 (see mathematics of permutations nPr & combinations nCr found on most scientific calculators) of terminals / cables, for each stalk-switch lever position, so that is potentially 40 continuity tests to perform.
| Belly61 wrote: |
| There is definitely something missing when trying to match different switches to the existing wiring diagrams. I have now sourced a 7-wire switch 211-955-501-D which might help me solve the problem of the wipers never parking. I have found what I think are the correct wiring diagrams for these switches which use the wash/wipe relay and also a standard change over relay. I did think there would be an easy solution for the problem I've experienced but it seems not to be the case... |
What are the terminal labels and associated cable colours of your seven terminal / cable stalk-switch [VW part No. 211 955 501 D]?
If for no other reason beyond my own windscreen wiper & washer upgrade ambitions, I hope to gradually compile a reference database, of substitute and supplementary VW, VW-Porsche & Porsche style switches, so that one can select possible alternative switches for various upgrade and accessory-fitment purposes.
Forum Index > Accessories/Memorabilia/Toys > VW & Porsche pattern switches
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=773461
What are the “correct wiring diagrams for these switches which use the wash/wipe relay and also a standard change over relay” to which you refer?
There was an earlier post in this topic thread, which included a custom-designed electrical circuit using the following components:
• Wiper & washer switch with terminals S, 53, 53A, 53B & 53E
• Wiper motor with terminals 31, 53, 53A, 53B & 53E
• Variable intermittent wiper-delay relay [VW part No. 357 955 531 | plus large number “99” on casing] with terminals I, T, 15, 31, 5M3 & 53S.
• Standard five-terminal changeover relay with terminals 30, 85, 86, 87 & 87A
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?p=8558246#8558246
https://www.autodoc.co.uk/car-parts/oem/357955531
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/265723170403?hash=item3...BM5sCjz_tg
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/185618722107?hash=item2...R-LAo8_7YA
Accessory-relay types
The design challenge is to create a circuit, which enables one to both operate the windscreen washers manually and have them operate automatically in conjunction with the intermittent wiper facility!
It might seem a silly / obvious question, but have you previously successfully used the substitute windscreen-wiper motor (with the non-VW/DIN-standard wiring colours) in conjunction with the original 1973~74 VW Type 2 windscreen wiper & washer switch (four terminals / cables – green to terminal 53, black to terminal, black/grey & black/yellow to other terminals in sequence, but the numbers are obscured by the cables!); including the parking function!?!
My spare 1974 model-year VW Type 2 windscreen wiper & washer stalk-switch with water-release valve [paddle-shaped stalk / lever | four terminals / cables – green to terminal 53, plus black, black/grey & black/yellow to other terminals in sequence, whose terminal numbers are obscured by the cables!] which is identical to my original 1973 model-year VW Type 2 stalk-switch.
Recall that the 1973 model-year (third digit of chassis number is 3 for 1973) and 1974 model-year (third digit of chassis number is 4 for 1974), run from 1st August 1972 to 31st July 1973 and 1st August 1973 to 31st July 1974 respectively.
The rectangular, moulded black-plastic part of the switch casing, has vacant slots / holes for additional terminals etc, with one large rectangular-slot marked 31, at one end of the water-valve base, close to terminal 53. There is a small circular-hole labelled S1, plus an unlabelled large rectangular slot and an unlabelled small rectangular slot, but their purpose is unknown.
The metal switch casing is marked: SWF | VW roundel-logo | Made in Germany | LS 201 093 | 211 955 517 A
NON North American specification, 1973 model year, VW 1600 Type 2 electrical circuit wiring diagram
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/archives/info/wiring/bus_8_72_1.jpg
_________________
Regards.
Nigel A. Skeet
Independent tutor (semi-retired) of mathematics, physics, technology & engineering for secondary, tertiary, further & higher education.
Much modified, RHD 1973 VW "1600" Type 2 Westfalia Continental campervan, with the World's only decent, cross-over-arm, SWF pantograph rear-window wiper
Onetime member, plus former Technical Editor & Editor of Transporter Talk magazine
Volkswagen Type 2 Owners' Club (Great Britain)
http://www.vwt2oc.net |
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