Hello! Log in or Register   |  Help  |  Donate  |  Buy Shirts  See all banner ads | Advertise on TheSamba.com  
TheSamba.com
 
Mysterious Massive Brake Fluid Leak
Page: Previous  1, 2, 3  Next
Forum Index -> Beetle - 1958-1967 Share: Facebook Twitter
Reply to topic
Print View
Quick sort: Show newest posts on top | Show oldest posts on top View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
bluebus86
Samba Member


Joined: September 02, 2010
Posts: 7642

bluebus86 is offline 

PostPosted: Mon Dec 04, 2017 2:08 pm    Post subject: Re: Mysterious Massive Brake Fluid Leak Reply with quote

yes, drain the reservoir, drain its tubing, to avoid brake fluid spills. wear rubber gloves, and safety glasses. this stuff is nasty, it eats automotive paint, dont get it on you, dont get glove prints of it on the paint. wash off immediatly with water is gets on paint, hose off the underside area when done also incase some dripped out during removal. I started wearing the glasses for this when while bleeding a burp of it got in my eye, burned instantly, ran so fast to the garden hose, flushing it out for 10 minutes or so, did care how wet of cold I got, it is lkke a hot iron burn, still burned like crazy, went to doctor, doctor flushed it more, still burned. it eventually got better, but boy did it burn.

the switch is the brake light switch, pressure operated. it has a tapered pipe thread, so dont over tighten it, as it will not stop by bottoming out, it will strip if over tightened, tighten enough to not leak, but not much more. The switch body is soft aluminum, strips easy.
Telfon pipe tape is sometimes used, but it aint factory, and can be an problem as it may fool a person too overtighten as it is so slick., and of course torn bits of tape could clog passages. assemble dry is fine, no tape should be needed. dont use any plumbers dope or sealers on the threads, you dont want risk of contamination in the system.

loosen all the flare nut fittings first (you got that flare nut wrench, correct?)
(I believe its an 11 mm, but you need to double check that) use of a regular open wrench on the flare nuts, if they are a bit stuck will ruin the flare nut.
see link....

https://www.google.com/search?q=flare+nut+wrench+vw+bug

dont forget the brake grease on all the other fitting, threads push rod etc. Brake compatible grease only is to be used here!
_________________
Help Prevent VW Engine Fires, see this link.....Engine safety wire information

Stop introducing dirt into your oil when adjusting valves ... https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=683022
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
Cusser
Samba Member


Joined: October 02, 2006
Posts: 19125
Location: Hot Arizona
Cusser is offline 

PostPosted: Mon Dec 04, 2017 3:27 pm    Post subject: Re: Mysterious Massive Brake Fluid Leak Reply with quote

onetuza wrote:
I ordered everything from the reservois to the MC.


Hmmm - maybe a good time to replace the four flexible brake lines too ???
_________________
1970 VW (owned since 1972) and 1971 VW Convertible (owned since 1976), second owner of each. The '71 now has the 1835 engine, swapped from the '70. Second owner of each. 1988 Mazda B2200 truck, 1998 Frontier, 2005 Yukon, 2004 Frontier King Cab. All manual transmission except for the Yukon. http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/album_page.php?pic_id=335294 http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/album_page.php?pic_id=335297
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
onetuza
Samba Member


Joined: June 20, 2012
Posts: 562
Location: Sebastian, FL
onetuza is offline 

PostPosted: Mon Dec 04, 2017 5:09 pm    Post subject: Re: Mysterious Massive Brake Fluid Leak Reply with quote

Pulled the line out of the MC grommet and drained the reservoir through a small hose into a bottle. Undid the reservoir strap and wiggled the whole thing out in one piece.

Multiple bends in the line. I believe the new one comes straight, so I think I can borrow a brake line bending tool from a friend and have some fun trying to match the shape of the old one.

TBC
_________________
When I die, I want to go peacefully in my sleep, like my grandfather . . . .
Not screaming, like the other passengers in his car!
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Gallery Classifieds Feedback
onetuza
Samba Member


Joined: June 20, 2012
Posts: 562
Location: Sebastian, FL
onetuza is offline 

PostPosted: Wed Dec 06, 2017 7:13 pm    Post subject: Re: Mysterious Massive Brake Fluid Leak Reply with quote

Parts due by end of day tomorrow.
So far, so good.
Removed drivers seat and steering wheel. Iíve got a two tone leather cover on it and the white leather was getting worn so I cleaned and died it. Looks great.
Removed brake switch and cleaned it up. Just slightly loosened the two MC bolts. Had some trouble with the three connections at the MC. Got the nuts to move but the lines were moving with them. More Kroil and some PB blaster and got two of them free. Put more PB on the third and quit for the night.

TBC
_________________
When I die, I want to go peacefully in my sleep, like my grandfather . . . .
Not screaming, like the other passengers in his car!
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Gallery Classifieds Feedback
onetuza
Samba Member


Joined: June 20, 2012
Posts: 562
Location: Sebastian, FL
onetuza is offline 

PostPosted: Thu Dec 07, 2017 9:24 am    Post subject: Re: Mysterious Massive Brake Fluid Leak Reply with quote

Cusser wrote:
onetuza wrote:
I ordered everything from the reservois to the MC.


Hmmm - maybe a good time to replace the four flexible brake lines too ???
Thanks, replaced them last year.
_________________
When I die, I want to go peacefully in my sleep, like my grandfather . . . .
Not screaming, like the other passengers in his car!
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Gallery Classifieds Feedback
onetuza
Samba Member


Joined: June 20, 2012
Posts: 562
Location: Sebastian, FL
onetuza is offline 

PostPosted: Thu Dec 07, 2017 9:40 am    Post subject: Re: Mysterious Massive Brake Fluid Leak Reply with quote

bluebus86 wrote:
loosen all the flare nut fittings first (you got that flare nut wrench, correct?)
(I believe its an 11 mm, but you need to double check that) use of a regular open wrench on the flare nuts, if they are a bit stuck will ruin the flare nut.

The 11mm line wrench proved very illusive. Most APS's carry one with 10mm on one end and 12mm on the other, but, Eureka! O'Reilly's had it.

One of the three nuts is still turning the brake line with it. Hit it with more penetrating oil last night and quit. Hopefully tonight is a win.

While I'm here, another picky question in anticipation. When you push the metal supply line into the rubber stopper, do you push it part way, or do you push it all the way till the flared end of it pops out of the inner face of the stopper?
_________________
When I die, I want to go peacefully in my sleep, like my grandfather . . . .
Not screaming, like the other passengers in his car!
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Gallery Classifieds Feedback
bluebus86
Samba Member


Joined: September 02, 2010
Posts: 7642

bluebus86 is offline 

PostPosted: Thu Dec 07, 2017 11:53 am    Post subject: Re: Mysterious Massive Brake Fluid Leak Reply with quote

onetuza wrote:
bluebus86 wrote:
loosen all the flare nut fittings first (you got that flare nut wrench, correct?)
(I believe its an 11 mm, but you need to double check that) use of a regular open wrench on the flare nuts, if they are a bit stuck will ruin the flare nut.

The 11mm line wrench proved very illusive. Most APS's 7carry one with 10mm on one end and 12mm on the other, but, Eureka! O'Reilly's had it.

One of the three nuts is still turning the brake line with it. Hit it with more penetrating oil last night and quit. Hopefully tonight is a win.

While I'm here, another picky question in anticipation. When you push the metal supply line into the rubber stopper, do you push it part way, or do you push it all the way till the flared end of it pops out of the inner face of the stopper?


I believe it goes all the way thru, (no, I am certain it goes all the way thru) but it works going in best if you first install the rubber bit on the master, then put the pipe in the rubber bit. use brake grease. if you install pipe in the rubber bit, then try to install the rubber bit with pipe into the master, you will have to fight it not fitting.

Good Luck, Bug On, Now Stop It with Conconfidence!!!!!

PS use that brake grease for reassembly of the pipes and on the flare nuts, get grease between the pipe and the nut, this will help avoid future rust and problems of the pipe stuck to the flare nut.
_________________
Help Prevent VW Engine Fires, see this link.....Engine safety wire information

Stop introducing dirt into your oil when adjusting valves ... https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=683022


Last edited by bluebus86 on Thu Dec 07, 2017 1:32 pm; edited 3 times in total
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
Cusser
Samba Member


Joined: October 02, 2006
Posts: 19125
Location: Hot Arizona
Cusser is offline 

PostPosted: Thu Dec 07, 2017 12:29 pm    Post subject: Re: Mysterious Massive Brake Fluid Leak Reply with quote

onetuza wrote:
While I'm here, another picky question in anticipation. When you push the metal supply line into the rubber stopper, do you push it part way, or do you push it all the way till the flared end of it pops out of the inner face of the stopper?


Gawd - it's been years since I've done that. And last year in its resurrection I bought an entire new Brazilian master cylinder for my 1970, it had those installed already.

Maybe I can find the MC I removed from my 1970 last year, definitely would not have disposed of it, especially because I remember (at least in the past) that there was more than one type of plastic elbow.

I haven't done an early-model MC in decades, but so don't know what those elbows look like, but here's what the elbows look like for a late-model MC, they seat (at the top) until flush.
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

_________________
1970 VW (owned since 1972) and 1971 VW Convertible (owned since 1976), second owner of each. The '71 now has the 1835 engine, swapped from the '70. Second owner of each. 1988 Mazda B2200 truck, 1998 Frontier, 2005 Yukon, 2004 Frontier King Cab. All manual transmission except for the Yukon. http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/album_page.php?pic_id=335294 http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/album_page.php?pic_id=335297
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
onetuza
Samba Member


Joined: June 20, 2012
Posts: 562
Location: Sebastian, FL
onetuza is offline 

PostPosted: Thu Dec 07, 2017 1:40 pm    Post subject: Re: Mysterious Massive Brake Fluid Leak Reply with quote

Hereís mine.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

_________________
When I die, I want to go peacefully in my sleep, like my grandfather . . . .
Not screaming, like the other passengers in his car!
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Gallery Classifieds Feedback
onetuza
Samba Member


Joined: June 20, 2012
Posts: 562
Location: Sebastian, FL
onetuza is offline 

PostPosted: Thu Dec 07, 2017 4:49 pm    Post subject: Re: Mysterious Massive Brake Fluid Leak Reply with quote

Well Iím screwed now! I thought I was home free. Got the other nut loosened. loosened two of them all the way out then started on the other one and it was a little tight and the freaking brake line busted and wouldnít you know it is the one that goes all the way through the car to the back. Not sure what Iím gonna do now. I guess remove the MC and then figure it out. Embarassed
_________________
When I die, I want to go peacefully in my sleep, like my grandfather . . . .
Not screaming, like the other passengers in his car!
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Gallery Classifieds Feedback
KTPhil Premium Member
Samba Member


Joined: April 06, 2006
Posts: 23767
Location: Conejo Valley, CA
KTPhil is offline 

PostPosted: Thu Dec 07, 2017 5:14 pm    Post subject: Re: Mysterious Massive Brake Fluid Leak Reply with quote

Yeah, it's a job, but one tip is to make it in two sections, with a union under the rear seat. Easier to bend and feed two shorter sections, then join them.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
Q-Dog
Samba Member


Joined: April 05, 2010
Posts: 5837
Location: Sunset, Louisiana
Q-Dog is offline 

PostPosted: Thu Dec 07, 2017 5:24 pm    Post subject: Re: Mysterious Massive Brake Fluid Leak Reply with quote

The premade-to-the-correct-length brake line most aircooled VW shops sell is quite inexpensive and the job to replace it is really quite simple. Remove the driver seat and get busy ... it only looks intimidating.

Just be gentle with the new line so you don't kink it.
_________________
Brian

'69 Dune Buggy
'69 Beetle Convertible
'70 Beetle
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
Cusser
Samba Member


Joined: October 02, 2006
Posts: 19125
Location: Hot Arizona
Cusser is offline 

PostPosted: Thu Dec 07, 2017 6:08 pm    Post subject: Re: Mysterious Massive Brake Fluid Leak Reply with quote

SwageLok metric union to join the existing old metal line to a new piece of line? We used SwageLok in the chemistry lab, considered the best; even sealed hydrogen lines with SwageLok connections.
_________________
1970 VW (owned since 1972) and 1971 VW Convertible (owned since 1976), second owner of each. The '71 now has the 1835 engine, swapped from the '70. Second owner of each. 1988 Mazda B2200 truck, 1998 Frontier, 2005 Yukon, 2004 Frontier King Cab. All manual transmission except for the Yukon. http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/album_page.php?pic_id=335294 http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/album_page.php?pic_id=335297
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
onetuza
Samba Member


Joined: June 20, 2012
Posts: 562
Location: Sebastian, FL
onetuza is offline 

PostPosted: Thu Dec 07, 2017 7:29 pm    Post subject: Re: Mysterious Massive Brake Fluid Leak Reply with quote

A friend came up with a possible fix by cutting off the line a few inches from the firewall and putting in a new fitting and flaring it if I can get a small enough flare tool to fit in the confined space. Then take a new piece of line, 2 new fittings, flare both ends, then bend as needed and put together, i.e., create a union there.

My car is pretty much a show car and I donít like the idea of pulling up the carpet to access the line. Also the t-block in the rear and itís fittings are prob 52 years old and full of crud and Iíd probably fubar something there.

If this doesnít work, then I may have it towed to my mechanic. Tempted to have him replace all the hard lines but $$$ and between Xmas and birthdays for three kids, weíll you get the idea.
_________________
When I die, I want to go peacefully in my sleep, like my grandfather . . . .
Not screaming, like the other passengers in his car!
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Gallery Classifieds Feedback
onetuza
Samba Member


Joined: June 20, 2012
Posts: 562
Location: Sebastian, FL
onetuza is offline 

PostPosted: Thu Dec 07, 2017 9:11 pm    Post subject: Re: Mysterious Massive Brake Fluid Leak Reply with quote

Upon closer examination of the little piece of line that broke off with the fitting, I donít think I would have ever gotten it off. Itís rusted together pretty badly. I will probably have to drill it out, but Iíve got it submerged in Kroil right now. Hope to reuse it with a new length of flared pipe joined to the old with a brass compression union. Whadaya think?
_________________
When I die, I want to go peacefully in my sleep, like my grandfather . . . .
Not screaming, like the other passengers in his car!
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Gallery Classifieds Feedback
Cusser
Samba Member


Joined: October 02, 2006
Posts: 19125
Location: Hot Arizona
Cusser is offline 

PostPosted: Fri Dec 08, 2017 6:50 am    Post subject: Re: Mysterious Massive Brake Fluid Leak Reply with quote

onetuza wrote:
Hope to reuse it with a new length of flared pipe joined to the old with a brass compression union. Whadaya think?


Isn't the line metric ??


I already suggested a SwageLok union, a well-designed tubing connector, and available in steel/stainless steel to match your steel brake line, and in metric sizes.


I sure wouldn't use a hardware store non-metric union !!!
_________________
1970 VW (owned since 1972) and 1971 VW Convertible (owned since 1976), second owner of each. The '71 now has the 1835 engine, swapped from the '70. Second owner of each. 1988 Mazda B2200 truck, 1998 Frontier, 2005 Yukon, 2004 Frontier King Cab. All manual transmission except for the Yukon. http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/album_page.php?pic_id=335294 http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/album_page.php?pic_id=335297
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
Q-Dog
Samba Member


Joined: April 05, 2010
Posts: 5837
Location: Sunset, Louisiana
Q-Dog is offline 

PostPosted: Fri Dec 08, 2017 6:50 am    Post subject: Re: Mysterious Massive Brake Fluid Leak Reply with quote

I don't like couplings under carpet, even if they are done correctly, because leaks are hard to see. And a big NO to the compression fitting idea. It's the brakes ... do it right. Wink
_________________
Brian

'69 Dune Buggy
'69 Beetle Convertible
'70 Beetle
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
onetuza
Samba Member


Joined: June 20, 2012
Posts: 562
Location: Sebastian, FL
onetuza is offline 

PostPosted: Fri Dec 08, 2017 7:06 am    Post subject: Re: Mysterious Massive Brake Fluid Leak Reply with quote

Checked swagelok and didnít see a size small enough. Maybe I missed it?
Not proposing the union in the cabin, but rather next to the MC.
Was hoping for a temporary fix so I can drive the car to my mechanic thirty-something miles away and maybe have him redo all the hard lines.
_________________
When I die, I want to go peacefully in my sleep, like my grandfather . . . .
Not screaming, like the other passengers in his car!
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Gallery Classifieds Feedback
KTPhil Premium Member
Samba Member


Joined: April 06, 2006
Posts: 23767
Location: Conejo Valley, CA
KTPhil is offline 

PostPosted: Fri Dec 08, 2017 10:04 am    Post subject: Re: Mysterious Massive Brake Fluid Leak Reply with quote

A friend did the 2-piece thing and put the union just under the back seat. Others have done this after struggling with the 1-piece. Is there a trick to making the 1-piece work? rear first, front first, bend in the middle and then re-straighten, or what?
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
onetuza
Samba Member


Joined: June 20, 2012
Posts: 562
Location: Sebastian, FL
onetuza is offline 

PostPosted: Fri Dec 08, 2017 10:53 am    Post subject: Re: Mysterious Massive Brake Fluid Leak Reply with quote

OK, I'm set to try using a union with flares and if that doesn't work, I go to a temporary compression fitting.
Rented a small metric flare tool from AutoZone. Looks like it may be small enough to work in the confined space. Tomorrow will tell.
Bought both a compression fitting and a union with flare nuts.
TBC
_________________
When I die, I want to go peacefully in my sleep, like my grandfather . . . .
Not screaming, like the other passengers in his car!
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Gallery Classifieds Feedback
Display posts from previous:   
Reply to topic    Forum Index -> Beetle - 1958-1967 All times are Mountain Standard Time/Pacific Daylight Savings Time
Page: Previous  1, 2, 3  Next
Page 2 of 3

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum

About | Help! | Advertise | Donate | Premium Membership | Privacy/Terms of Use | Contact Us | Site Map
Copyright © 1996-2016, Everett Barnes. All Rights Reserved.
Not affiliated with or sponsored by Volkswagen of America | Forum powered by phpBB