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Crank+Cam alignment dots
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57BLITZ Premium Member
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 07, 2017 4:34 pm    Post subject: Re: Crank+Cam alignment dots Reply with quote

Pull the coil wire out of the cap . . . hold the end of the coil wire 1/4" away from a ground (bare metal on the engine) . . . have a helper crank the engine while you look for a spark jump from the coil wire.

No need to look at cap/rotor/fuel until you do this test and see a spark!
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 07, 2017 4:46 pm    Post subject: Re: Crank+Cam alignment dots Reply with quote

57BLITZ wrote:
Pull the coil wire out of the cap . . . hold the end of the coil wire 1/4" away from a ground (bare metal on the engine) . . . have a helper crank the engine while you look for a spark jump from the coil wire.

No need to look at cap/rotor/fuel until you do this test and see a spark!


Normally I would agree, but he said that the points were opening when the rotor was NOT aligned to any distributor terminal. Very strange. The only spark he would get is when the spark would jump huge gaps in the distributor. It would be very erratic, if the spark got to the plugs at all. But the test you suggest is normally the first thing to do, and couldn't hurt, just in case there is a miscommunication in the text here.
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 07, 2017 5:12 pm    Post subject: Re: Crank+Cam alignment dots Reply with quote

Put motor at 10 degrees btdc, rotate dist. untill the points just crack open, now timing is set well enough to rule it out, does not matter if the rotor is not pointing directly at the post, that has to do with phasing. If it still does not run you have other problems, look there.
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 07, 2017 5:25 pm    Post subject: Re: Crank+Cam alignment dots Reply with quote

I got the points arking pretty close to when the rotor passes the terminal, now I just pulled my dizz from my Baja, which is running great, it has the electronic ignition with no points, I put that one in and have no change . Wtf? Somebody suggested I squirt a couple pumps of oil down the spark plug holes to help build more compression . I had somebody crank the motor while I worked the carb , and it was barely squirting fuel while cranking like misty almost? Now I understand it should only pump a squirt out if I pull the linkage while it’s off but should it be continuous while cranking? Fuel pump is brand new and carb is one of those empi carbs “bench tested and guaranteed to work out of the box” deals. Which the choke does work and I can hear a click when turning the key on I’m assuming is the solenoid on the carb. I’m totally lost here, switching the dizz to one that came from a running car with no points didn’t change anything.
Also, the other dizz I just tried is an 009 with no vacuum canister
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 07, 2017 5:37 pm    Post subject: Re: Crank+Cam alignment dots Reply with quote

You are throwing parts at something blindly. Step back and think. If the points crack open at 10 degrees btdc and fire, it is not ignition. If you have fuel, it is not fuel( you can start an engine on carb/brake cleaner) The only other thing is timing, and not ignition timing you already ruled that out.
An engine has to have ignition,
Fuel,
Compression
And it all has to happen at a certain time.

If these are met it will run. PERIOD
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 07, 2017 5:51 pm    Post subject: Re: Crank+Cam alignment dots Reply with quote

I’m not throwing parts at it at all, I rebuilt the engine a few months ago and finally had time to put it in the car and now it’s where it’s at. Clearly I’m doing .something wrong
But everything seems to be checking out. If I pump some fuel down the throat, hen turn the key it almost sounds like it wants to start for like 3 seconds, depending on how many times I pull the linkage. After that 3 seconds it sounds like how it would with no coil, just dry cranks . So, if it’s kicking for those 3 seconds it has fuel manually dumped down the carb, it must be ignighting on time for those few seconds no?
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 07, 2017 6:46 pm    Post subject: Re: Crank+Cam alignment dots Reply with quote

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Ok so I did this, that’s number 1 wire with an old plug in it, gapped the same as the plugs in the engine, and literally as soon as the pulley mark hit the case seam I got a snap on the spark plug. Is it safe to rule out timing and spark? I could try this for each cylinder
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 07, 2017 6:58 pm    Post subject: Re: Crank+Cam alignment dots Reply with quote

Ok just did this test on each cylinder and they are all arching at tdc, bdc , tdc, then bdc just like it should, when it should . Timing+ignition ruled out?
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 07, 2017 7:58 pm    Post subject: Re: Crank+Cam alignment dots Reply with quote

We must have been talking about different things. I think you were referring to engine position, and I was talking distributor only. The points always open as they pass a terminal unless the distributor was built completely wrong.

So, distributor installed, bring the engine to 7.5 degrees BTDC and pop the cap. Rotor pointing at #1 terminal on the cap? If yes, continue. If no, turn the distributor until it does.
(If the rotor is pointing at #3, rotate the engine 180 degrees, then point rotor at #1)

Make sure you are 1-4-3-2 around the cap clockwise. This will get you close enough.

Dribble some gas down the carb using a small container. A cap full or so should be plenty.

Did it fire and run a second? If yes, check fuel delivery, if no, you still have an ignition issue, start over.
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 07, 2017 8:27 pm    Post subject: Re: Crank+Cam alignment dots Reply with quote

Open the carb and see if there is fuel in the bowl. If not put some and try again. You said you put a new pump, maybe not working or enough pressure. I do the initial timing like mcmscott described. Will get you close enough to start. The picture of your pulley looks like there are degree numbers on the other side. You may have the wires in wrong spot.
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 07, 2017 8:40 pm    Post subject: Re: Crank+Cam alignment dots Reply with quote

The pulley used to be a degree pulley but the printing had worn out so I marked tdc and powdercoated it. Wires are 100 percent in the correct spot and plugs are firing in correct sequence when turning the motor over by hand. I’m starting to think it’s having a hard time getting fuel somehow, the timing seems on point . I’ll try some starting fluid or fuel tomorrow and see what happens
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 08, 2017 5:59 am    Post subject: Re: Crank+Cam alignment dots Reply with quote

Just use gas or intake cleaner to try and start your car. Ether (starting fluid) is frickin hard on engines if you try and run them on it. Even brake clean will burn good enough to fire it up and keep it running.

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PostPosted: Fri Dec 08, 2017 7:02 am    Post subject: Re: Crank+Cam alignment dots Reply with quote

slalombuggy wrote:
Just use gas or intake cleaner to try and start your car. Ether (starting fluid) is frickin hard on engines if you try and run them on it. Even brake clean will burn good enough to fire it up and keep it running.

brad


Alrighty thanks I’ll just play it safe and use some fresh gas.
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 08, 2017 9:47 am    Post subject: Re: Crank+Cam alignment dots Reply with quote

Generic brake clean is my go to starting fluid.... Along with about a dozen other uses...

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...... and not keyboard jockeys that just have high post counts


All suggestions and advice are purely my own opinion. You are free to ignore them if you wish ...
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 08, 2017 5:29 pm    Post subject: Re: Crank+Cam alignment dots Reply with quote

Honestly I never thought I’d be one of “those” people but I dumped 2 gallons in the tank, filled the bowl(which was empty ) and it fired right up. So, lesson learned, the ‘R’ on this particular gauge means ‘almost bone dry’
I figured the little amount was enough, but I was wrong ,
Embarassed Embarassed Embarassed Embarassed
On to the next headache
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 08, 2017 6:13 pm    Post subject: Re: Crank+Cam alignment dots Reply with quote

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PostPosted: Fri Dec 08, 2017 6:18 pm    Post subject: Re: Crank+Cam alignment dots Reply with quote

Are you using the distributor with the crazy phasing problem? I've never seen a VW distributor line up like you described. Usually the stock distributors are set for proper phasing near idle and the rotor points to the terminal without advance. Who knows with the aftermarket ones. Actually it would be better if they were phased a touch early, so the rotor would be in alignment with the terminal at mid to max advance. I guess they did it that way for improved idle? IDK, just a guess.

Glad you got it sorted.
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 08, 2017 6:51 pm    Post subject: Re: Crank+Cam alignment dots Reply with quote

D’oh!
Honestly it was a cheap distributor I read a couple of good reviews and just bought it I can’t remember how much I payed, but i did get it off eBay , new.i have an old one what came in the motor, it says Bosch on the body but the body has a chrome finish and the metal it’s made of just feels kinda cheap in hand you know? it makes me skeptical, but i just put it on the shelf because it’s incomplete and has some surface rust. If it’s a real Bosch distributor would it be worth rebuilding?
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 08, 2017 7:02 pm    Post subject: Re: Crank+Cam alignment dots Reply with quote

If it's Bosch, probably. What numbers are on it? It may, or may not match your carb and or vacuum signal.

I've rebuilt a few distributors lately, and they all came out great. Ready for another 40 years of service. The shafts and bushings are good quality, and don't usually wear out unless they have been running in sand.
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 08, 2017 9:48 pm    Post subject: Re: Crank+Cam alignment dots Reply with quote

Here it is, I gues it doesn’t say Bosch but it has the logo on the left,


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And here is the condition. Pretty rough.


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