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Engle cam forging issues - W-120
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SuperOldSchool
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 09, 2017 4:00 pm    Post subject: Engle cam forging issues - W-120 Reply with quote

Hi

Just ordered and received my new W-120 cam. I have another new fk8 that does NOT look like the pics below.

Do some come like this or is this defective? What gives? Is this ok to use?

Looks like the forging or cutting was off- see the unevenness in the lobes??

Thanks
SuperOldSchool


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modok
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 09, 2017 4:04 pm    Post subject: Re: Engle cam forging issues - W-120 Reply with quote

I don't know.
Get a stock cam and measure back from the thrust bearing and see how far off the lobes are. And check the taper. The taper really determines where it contacts.
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SuperOldSchool
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 09, 2017 5:04 pm    Post subject: Re: Engle cam forging issues - W-120 Reply with quote

I get the tech behind measuring, but at face value, I don’t see this as useable, regardless of measuring anything . It looks messed up.

Anyone else see cams like this out of the box- seems fubar to me....
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mark tucker
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 09, 2017 5:08 pm    Post subject: Re: Engle cam forging issues - W-120 Reply with quote

most are like that. some more, some less, thus the reason for deburring every lobe's edges. and they are cast not forged.
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modok
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 09, 2017 5:11 pm    Post subject: Re: Engle cam forging issues - W-120 Reply with quote

It does look very suspicious, but so do I. I've got problems, but they aren't visible with a mere glance.. Looks aren't everything.
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jpaull
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 09, 2017 5:20 pm    Post subject: Re: Engle cam forging issues - W-120 Reply with quote

modok wrote:
It does look very suspicious, but so do I. I've got problems, but they aren't visible with a mere glance.. Looks aren't everything.


Lol your honesty is awesome.
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mark tucker
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 09, 2017 5:29 pm    Post subject: Re: Engle cam forging issues - W-120 Reply with quote

cams have been getting rougher over the years, i suspect there not filtering the sand worth a shit and the molds/bucks/pucks/thingys are wore out at the alinement dowels. and nobody cares. also from what ive been told those come from japan...and..japan steel & manufacturing & auto has had a lot of "certification's being falsifyed the past 10 years"..a lot .that cam aint shit, but that plane's I's flying to italy in 2 months probably also has the falsified materials in them... wonder if one of the big cam grinders or all 4 of the big cam grinders needs to get with the biggest cam core company in the usa( located in mississippi. and have them do the cores that way they / we want them.... and cast with bigger lobes too!!! and bigger main shaft so the stroker knotch isant taking somuch away...I know it dosent hurt squat...
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 09, 2017 6:05 pm    Post subject: Re: Engle cam forging issues - W-120 Reply with quote

I received a Web 86b this afternoon. It's an EP12 blank.

I'll need to get it clearanced for an 82mm crank.

This image is of the worst cam lobe casting mis-alignment.
I agree with Mark that some don't care if the casting molds are worn out and they could care less.

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If that is what Engle has to offer these days. I'm glad I bought the WebCam.

Can someone show a pic of a properly deburred cam? So I know what to do to get it right.

Good Luck.
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 09, 2017 8:15 pm    Post subject: Re: Engle cam forging issues - W-120 Reply with quote

If you call Engle and order a cam directly from them, they'll deburr your cam in-house for you if you ask for it. I ordered a V-26 like that from them.
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SuperOldSchool
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 09, 2017 8:41 pm    Post subject: Re: Engle cam forging issues - W-120 Reply with quote

I have calls and emails to Engle and where I bought it.

Nobody has stated if this is useable- just tangent remarks.

I am hoping Engle will send a replacement without a fight if needed.

Again, are folks using cams like this, maybe just cleaning them up on lobe edges. Shouldn’t have to do it, but if it will be fine, I will.

Thanks
SoS
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 09, 2017 9:36 pm    Post subject: Re: Engle cam forging issues - W-120 Reply with quote

yes it's usable. I thought i was clear with that. I have roller cams that are like that and have had some that were worse.yes cast roller cams. my steel billet cams are a work of art...I think he still works there.... crap he has realy moved around since I have roller cams from many different manufactures. the cast rollers are supposed to be made of a diferent material that a flat tappet cam. and many of the billet roller cams are 2 peice cams now days, I worked with some of the first ones back in the early 90's..or was late 80's...crap im old.
so deburr the lobe edges and use a can of cam shield and break it in properly...use the right lofters too. Confused
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 09, 2017 10:12 pm    Post subject: Re: Engle cam forging issues - W-120 Reply with quote

Your Engle cam is normal. All cams come like that. All you need to do is take a simple hand file and deburr the edges.

As far as I know CWC is the only company that actually cast the cam blank. All the cam companies use a CWC blank and just grind the lobes.
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 10, 2017 10:17 am    Post subject: Re: Engle cam forging issues - W-120 Reply with quote

Not the greatest picture but this shows my deburring...
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Other than that I guess you'll just have to assume the grind is good and run it.
Engle aren't famed for shoddy work.
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 10, 2017 10:34 am    Post subject: Re: Engle cam forging issues - W-120 Reply with quote

UK Luke 72 wrote:
Not the greatest picture but this shows my deburring...
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

Other than that I guess you'll just have to assume the grind is good and run it.
Engle aren't famed for shoddy work.


Yup I just file the ridges down and deburr edges.

In Lukes picture, Ive had to grind the cam bearing down to get clearance before.
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UK Luke 72
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 10, 2017 10:38 am    Post subject: Re: Engle cam forging issues - W-120 Reply with quote

It wasn't necessary to grind the cam bearing in this build but I did profile it to match the clearanced saddle.
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DeathBySnuSnu
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 10, 2017 12:46 pm    Post subject: Re: Engle cam forging issues - W-120 Reply with quote

My Engle did not have a step over like that.
Took more than a file to deburr.


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PostPosted: Sun Dec 10, 2017 8:55 pm    Post subject: Re: Engle cam forging issues - W-120 Reply with quote

Engle and Web use same blanks. Web probably cleans them up better. Deburr it and use it. The lifter doesnt ride on the side.
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 11, 2017 7:50 pm    Post subject: Re: Engle cam forging issues - W-120 Reply with quote

I wont use a file to deburr a cam...yes it looks like shit, but debured shouldent be a issue. if you dont want to take a chance get another cam. sometimes peace of mind is better than any thing else. personaly the best looking vw cam Ive ever seen other than my rollers is the oe flat cam .they just have tiny lobes.like a Buffalo Shocked Rolling Eyes .hmm send a oe cam to hose A and have him weld that sucker up then have it reground.
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SuperOldSchool
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 12, 2017 6:03 am    Post subject: Re: Engle cam forging issues - W-120 Reply with quote

Yes, I am sending it back for another one, which the sales rep will inspect before shipping out - I spoke with him yesterday.

Mark, what do you use then to deburr the lobes, I’d notnanfile? A slow Dremel? A sharpening stone?

Sounds like in my case it’s just peace of mind, but that’s what I want and need.

Thanks all, as always!
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 12, 2017 8:29 am    Post subject: Re: Engle cam forging issues - W-120 Reply with quote

I used a carbide burr on an air die grinder.
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