HSR or No HSR

[390nellie]

My 79 SB is low miles and no starting issues. The question is - Should I install a hard start relay to prolong the factory ignition switch life or rock on with the attitude - If it ain't broke, don't fix it?

I'm leaning toward installing it. They are relatively inexpensive and easy to install.

[Multi69s]

If the connections and wiring are good from a salt free environment leave it stock. Bad wires and connections will not increase the current draw to the switch, a sticking starter solenoid will.
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[Dwayne1m]

I bought a HSR with the intention of installing it but never did. It's not a priority on my long list of things to do, I don't have any starting problems, it's not my daily driver so it doesn't get used regularly, and I'm not fond of more electrical connections and another device to possibly cause a problem, so it sits in my box of collected parts. JMO

[baldessariclan]

I think that a “hard start” relay is really just an alternate fix for replacing bad wiring or switches in the existing starter circuit. I.e., if you fixed or replaced any poor wiring/connections and/or the ignition switch in your starter circuit, it should work just fine without the relay (like it did from the factory).

So I guess my question would be that if the starter circuit wiring and ignition switch are already good, how would installing a hard start relay improve / help anything? Not knocking your idea — just genuinely curious if there may be some additional / hidden benefits, to offset additional cost and effort of wiring this up — ??

[andk5591]

What it does is reduce the amount of current running through the ignition switch. Instead of running the power to drive the solenoid directly through the switch, you are adding components (relay and associated wiring) that are used to indirectly power the solenoid. We have 5 personal ACVWs on the road and do not use hard starts in any. I have an early customer car in the shop right now that was 6V with the hard start and since I converted to 12V, the relay has been removed.

I am more into "the simpler the better", but if it makes you more comfortable to use one, knock yourself out.
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[Buggeee]

The newest member of our family has a failing ignition switch that I was either going to replace or try HSR.

If I replace the ignition switch, am I replacing the metal cylinder with the key or am I replacing the circle with the horn and turnsignal guts or....

It's a 72 Super
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[volksworld]

depends on your definition of a failing ignition switch...what are the symptoms?because the lock cylinder, steering column lock assembly ,and electrical portion of the switch can all be replaced separately

[Buggeee]

[ricaroo]

take a look at this



https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=676152&highlight=hsr


Rick
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[Buggeee]

[Buggeee]

[ashman40]

I'm a proponent of the HSR as a means of extending the life of your ignition switch. This applies to both new ignition switches and old ones.

The reasons for an HSR:

- "Bad wiring" is a relative term for cars that are over 30years old. If you have the original wiring it is already "bad" due to oxidation of wires and connectors from 30-years exposure to the environment. Even a car kept in a temp controlled environment will experience increased resistance in the wiring from oxidation from air.

- Over time, the electrical contacts in the ignition switch will get "burnt" and increase the resistance in the circuit or reduce the usable contact surface. This shouldn't become a problem for many years, but most of our cars have WAY more years on them than the designers originally planned.

- New replacement ignition switches are no where near the quality of the original VW switches. I took my failed old VW ignition switch and my failed new aftermarket ignition switch apart and the contact surface for the #50 circuit was MUCH smaller in the aftermarket switch (pic below). This means you should do everything you can to keep your original switch. I'd even go so far as to suggest you rebuild your OE ignition switch instead of buying a new aftermarket switch. As evidence, I have a pic of my aftermarket ignition switch contacts after it had failed (less than 2yrs). You can see the small blackened/burnt area at the upper end of the #50 contact.



The original VW ignition switch I took apart had a #50 contact area more like the center (round) contact in the pic.

- The Bosch-style relays have been used in cars for decades. They have proven to be very reliable. Get a good quality 30A SPDT relay made by Tycho (who bought out the Bosch relay production). It will last years/decades.

- The Bosch-style relays only draw about 0.050A compared to the 5A(?) of the starter solenoid.
I don't recommend the Ford style relays as an HSR because they draw more current (1.5A) to activate. The point of the HSR is to reduce the current thru the ignition switch.

- If your ignition switch is already giving you intermittent starts the HSR can make starting more reliable. But your ignition switch is already compromised and the HSR is a fix (band-aid). It can extend how long before you need to replace/rebuild your ignition switch. If the ignition switch is so bad that the voltage to the starter solenoid is sometimes zero (or less than 5V), the HSR will not help. The relay needs voltage from the ignition switch to work. But if the voltage to the solenoid is just lower than 12v the HSR will help as it only needs 6V to activate.

- (Prevantative) If your car still starts reliably, the HSR will extend the time before you need a replacement ignition switch (years). This applies to an OE or aftermarket ignition switch. I'd recommend ALL aftermarket switches use a HSR because of the small contact area pictured above.

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[volksworld]

fwiw...just like everything else these days there are some pretty awful ignition switches out there...had water cooled ones that didnt fit right or work to the point that i gave up and only bought them from vw themselves....this after years of using aftermarket bug ones with no issues...i would use a test light to see if you're getting juice to the solenoid during the no start condition....if you arent, its the switch or an old seatbelt interlock relay(didnt bother to notice the year of the car)....if you have power, i'd go for the HSR....changing the switch you also have the potential of damaging a very old and brittle directional switch and fighting with the tubing for the windsheild washer(again depending on year)

[Frank Bassman]

The hard start relay is used in MANY cars where the battery is much much closer to both starter and ignition switch. Sure there is validity to saying that if the wiring is stock you can leave it as is... but if you have the means of adding the relay to preserve your ignition switch then why not? You can also wait until you experience a big issue to install it. But why? Just add it. I put mine in 4 years ago and never have had an issue since. Put a ford relay in it and forget about it.

-Frank

[Chochobeef]

Add +1 to installing it. Its not hard and as stated will preserve your existing switch whether it be stock or aftermarket. I have never had an issue starting with it, and will continue to not have an issue. I bought my relay from Parts Express. They have the bosch style which is super easy to wire up. There are threads about how to hook it up. I am using an inline 15A fuse and have never blown it.

[busman78]

Not all relays in a vehicle are there because the owner doesn't want to fix a wire or switch, they provide clean voltage to a circuit, here is the relay bank that is now under the back seat of my 71, all the original wiring still worked, flawlessly, these relays just make it better. The relay on the left is the 50 amp starter relay.

[Volks Wagen]

+1 for adding a HSR. An ounce of prevention...
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[airschooled]

There are people out there who own these cars and can’t afford the $155 for a rebuilt Bosch starter, or $210 for a new one. Often times all they can spring for is a FLAPS brand, and those remanufacturers don’t usually do anything with an old solenoid. I’ve seen one bad solenoid out of the box, and the HSR was a cheap solution to the problem, even after treating th the connections and wires through the whole car.

Do it, or don’t, just use good connectors and fuse it appropriately!
Robbie
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[TX-73]

I was fortunate to have an oem ignition switch in good shape plus I installed a new wiring harness. I still installed a starter relay simply to run more direct current from the battery.
I also installed hi and lo beam headlight relays for the same reason. The ignition and light switch now just have to supply milli-amps to energize the relays.
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