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Busstom Samba Member
Joined: November 23, 2014 Posts: 3789 Location: San Jose, CA
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Posted: Mon Dec 11, 2017 11:25 pm Post subject: Re: Intake Manifold not fitting |
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rennie wrote: |
But don't you then run the risk of leakage if there is tension always pulling inward? I know nut torque should be checked when cold after a few drives, but I've read on TS never to force this joint to seal/match up.
I've casually tried as you mention but it seems a bit too much outward pull is required. There is flex as you say but I'm curious to know if there's any concern around heating up an elbow and getting it a little better?
I've done several things you've suggested in the past and value your input... thanks! |
I recently encountered the very same thing, except manifold too wide, by an eighth. I didn't want to force it with the nuts, just goes against every principle of mine. So I installed one side and tightened that end down onto the seat/gasket counterbore (no gasket), then heated that end up, right at the middle of the bend. This left the other side cold so I could grasp it and push it toward the heated side until the cold side seated in its gasket bore...then held it there while it took its "set" (in other words, don't allow it to spring back).
If you do this, take the manifold back off after you widen it, and inspect the interior of the heated area for potential scaling from the heating process. The last thing you need is any scale letting go and flying down your intake ports. I had to get mine red-hot to move, the tubing wall is pretty thick. So I had some minor scale on the outside, which sanded off, but none on the inside. Also, I discovered my fitment issue early on, when trial-fitting on the bare long block. If your shroud is on, and/or the engine is in the car, use caution when you're trying to heat metal with an open flame, or you risk collateral damage. |
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rennie Samba Member
Joined: October 06, 2016 Posts: 246 Location: Orange County, CA
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Posted: Tue Dec 12, 2017 8:59 am Post subject: Re: Intake Manifold not fitting |
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Eric&Barb wrote: |
You can put a length of wood in the top of the intake manifold and bend toward the rear the pipe the carb seats onto pretty easily.
If need be the same could be done to the head ends of the intake with two pieces of wood instead to widen. |
Busstom wrote: |
rennie wrote: |
But don't you then run the risk of leakage if there is tension always pulling inward? I know nut torque should be checked when cold after a few drives, but I've read on TS never to force this joint to seal/match up.
I've casually tried as you mention but it seems a bit too much outward pull is required. There is flex as you say but I'm curious to know if there's any concern around heating up an elbow and getting it a little better?
I've done several things you've suggested in the past and value your input... thanks! |
I recently encountered the very same thing, except manifold too wide, by an eighth. I didn't want to force it with the nuts, just goes against every principle of mine. So I installed one side and tightened that end down onto the seat/gasket counterbore (no gasket), then heated that end up, right at the middle of the bend. This left the other side cold so I could grasp it and push it toward the heated side until the cold side seated in its gasket bore...then held it there while it took its "set" (in other words, don't allow it to spring back).
If you do this, take the manifold back off after you widen it, and inspect the interior of the heated area for potential scaling from the heating process. The last thing you need is any scale letting go and flying down your intake ports. I had to get mine red-hot to move, the tubing wall is pretty thick. So I had some minor scale on the outside, which sanded off, but none on the inside. Also, I discovered my fitment issue early on, when trial-fitting on the bare long block. If your shroud is on, and/or the engine is in the car, use caution when you're trying to heat metal with an open flame, or you risk collateral damage. |
Good ideas - thank you both.
I'm guessing heat will be needed, as I did try putting one curved end on a wood block on the ground and leveraging the open end up against the bottom of another old car's underside with a wood block there also and I couldn't comfortably bend/spread the tube, though I used a fair bit of force. Strong pipe. I'm also conscious of not wanting to crack the aluminum casting wrap.
I'll give the wood spreading method a try. If no luck then I'll move on to heating the "mounted" end and pulling outward on the opposite cold side until it spreads/seats properly.
More to come... |
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rennie Samba Member
Joined: October 06, 2016 Posts: 246 Location: Orange County, CA
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Posted: Wed Dec 13, 2017 9:00 am Post subject: Re: Intake Manifold not fitting |
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Well, a variation of Busstom's above heat method worked whilst the manifold was on the motor (out of vehicle). I realised if I heated the mounted end without the risers loosely bolted in place then the entire manifold alignment would shift when pulling on the opposite cool side, and the riser holes would then end up out of alignment.
Thus, I mounted one end of the manifold, and put in all four riser bolts (loose was fine), and then heated the bend on the unmounted side that needed widening. That way, only the heated side shifted alignment as desired.
For pulling on the heated side, I used a large hose clamp loosely around the end of the manifold and attached a carabiner to it to use as a 'handle' to pull with. Many other ways I'm sure, but it worked quite well.
Thanks for helping with ideas on this. Now ready to somehow clean the inside (wire brush wand on a drill?!), paint, and install! |
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Eric&Barb Samba Member
Joined: September 19, 2004 Posts: 24670 Location: Olympia Wash Rinse & Repeat
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Posted: Wed Dec 13, 2017 9:39 am Post subject: Re: Intake Manifold not fitting |
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Great to hear you got it fitted into place! _________________ In Stereo, Where Available! |
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Cusser Samba Member
Joined: October 02, 2006 Posts: 31268 Location: Hot Arizona
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Posted: Wed Dec 13, 2017 10:20 am Post subject: Re: Intake Manifold not fitting |
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I had to "massage" the new header on my 1600cc engine to fit last year. Sad but oftentimes true with such parts these days. _________________ 1970 VW (owned since 1972) and 1971 VW Convertible (owned since 1976), second owner of each. The '71 now has the 1835 engine, swapped from the '70. Second owner of each. 1988 Mazda B2200 truck, 1998 Frontier, 2014 Yukon, 2004 Frontier King Cab. All manual transmission except for the Yukon. http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/album_page.php?pic_id=335294 http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/album_page.php?pic_id=335297 |
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Busstom Samba Member
Joined: November 23, 2014 Posts: 3789 Location: San Jose, CA
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Posted: Wed Dec 13, 2017 10:36 am Post subject: Re: Intake Manifold not fitting |
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rennie wrote: |
Well, a variation of Busstom's above heat method worked whilst the manifold was on the motor (out of vehicle). I realised if I heated the mounted end without the risers loosely bolted in place then the entire manifold alignment would shift when pulling on the opposite cool side, and the riser holes would then end up out of alignment.
Thus, I mounted one end of the manifold, and put in all four riser bolts (loose was fine), and then heated the bend on the unmounted side that needed widening. That way, only the heated side shifted alignment as desired.
For pulling on the heated side, I used a large hose clamp loosely around the end of the manifold and attached a carabiner to it to use as a 'handle' to pull with. Many other ways I'm sure, but it worked quite well.
Thanks for helping with ideas on this. Now ready to somehow clean the inside (wire brush wand on a drill?!), paint, and install! |
Smart. It usually pays to sit and stare at a job, think it through over a cup of coffee or your favorite beverage. My early (not 40 horse) SP manifold doesn't have the heat riser flange to the case bolt.
The wire tube brush on a wand/drill is a great idea. Maybe something like this https://www.mcmaster.com/#4917a551/=1ao2e7t and cut the shank short for the flex wand. |
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bobinphx Samba Member
Joined: August 14, 2016 Posts: 165
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Posted: Wed Sep 29, 2021 12:28 pm Post subject: |
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AlteWagen wrote: |
dont forget to replace the one time use copper manifold gasket while you are at it. Ive seen plenty of SP heads with two or three gaskets smashed on top of each other by POs. Massive intake leak usually caused POs to sell the car due to a dying engine. |
That is exactly why I got my 69 for cheap. Double intake gaskets, massive intake leak. Pulled the double stack out, put in new (1 per side) and laughed and laughed when the engine fired right up. It ran like a champ and still does |
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