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RicoS Samba Member
Joined: December 02, 2006 Posts: 583
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Posted: Wed Dec 13, 2017 8:01 am Post subject: Re: Share your wrenching tips and tricks! |
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joetiger wrote: |
. . . wish I'd seen it before entering the world of Pennsylvania Rust Hell . . . |
Welcome to God's Country where the men are men and so are some of the women.
You will learn about things you never imagined existed, Grasshopper.
Richie (near The Burgh) |
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danfromsyr Samba Member
Joined: March 01, 2004 Posts: 15144 Location: Syracuse, NY
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Posted: Wed Dec 13, 2017 8:28 am Post subject: Re: Share your wrenching tips and tricks! |
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on really rusty really stubborn bolts. patience and persistence
with ample penetrent of choise (pb blaster or Kroil for me)
loosen a little (smidge)
take back the slack
*reapply penetrent
loosen a smidge more
take back the slack
loosen a smidge more
take back the slack
loosen a smidge more
*reapply penetrent
take back the slack
loosen a smidge more
take back the slack
loosen a smidge more
take back the slack
*reapply penetrent
loosen a smidge more
take back the slack
loosen a smidge more
take back the slack
for this I don't use a ratchet but a mini breaker bar type.
till it comes out or breaks. it was likely to break anyways. but you stand a better chance of not with patience and persistence _________________
Abscate wrote: |
These are the reasons we have words like “wanker” |
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RicoS Samba Member
Joined: December 02, 2006 Posts: 583
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Posted: Wed Dec 13, 2017 8:53 am Post subject: Re: Share your wrenching tips and tricks! |
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danfromsyr wrote: |
on really rusty really stubborn bolts. patience and persistence . . . |
Reminds me of the guy (damn, I wish TK were still here, he'd remember his name) on the Gerry list about 30 years ago who described the method his grandpap had taught him to loosen rusted-on fasteners.
First, you douse the stuck fastener with kerosene, then, with a 7 oz. ball peen you tap it 17 times, tap, tap, tap . . . Then, you leave it until the following day when you douse it again with the kerosene and tap it 17 times, tap, tap, tap . . . with the 7 oz. ball peen. On the third day, you douse it once more and tap it 17 times, tap, tap, tap . . . On the fourth day, you douse it again but this time you tap it 19 times (or was it 15 times?) and only then do you put a wrench to it.
Guaranteed to work or so he said.
Richie (near The Burgh)
Last edited by RicoS on Wed Dec 13, 2017 9:06 am; edited 1 time in total |
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DanHoug Samba Member
Joined: December 05, 2016 Posts: 4789 Location: Bemidji, MN
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Posted: Wed Dec 13, 2017 8:59 am Post subject: Re: Share your wrenching tips and tricks! |
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[/quote] Reminds me of the guy (damn, I wish TK were still here, he'd remember his name) on the Gerry list about 30 years ago who described the method his granpap had taught him to loosen rusted-on fasteners.
Richie (near The Burgh)[/quote]
sounds like Unca Joel! Joel Walker from Tuscaloosa, AL. i was on that list back in the day....
-dan |
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RicoS Samba Member
Joined: December 02, 2006 Posts: 583
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Posted: Wed Dec 13, 2017 9:11 am Post subject: Re: Share your wrenching tips and tricks! |
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DanHoug wrote: |
sounds like Unca Joel! Joel Walker from Tuscaloosa, AL. i was on that list back in the day.... |
Bingo! That's who it was, dan. Thanks, I commend your powers of memory.
Richie (near The Burgh) |
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danfromsyr Samba Member
Joined: March 01, 2004 Posts: 15144 Location: Syracuse, NY
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Posted: Wed Dec 13, 2017 9:18 am Post subject: Re: Share your wrenching tips and tricks! |
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Rico I was on there way back then in the day....
you can still peruse the vanagon list archives...
here's a search link to Unca Joel's posts..
http://gerry.vanagon.com/cgi-bin/wa.exe?S2=vanagon...;a=&b= _________________
Abscate wrote: |
These are the reasons we have words like “wanker” |
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RicoS Samba Member
Joined: December 02, 2006 Posts: 583
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Posted: Thu Dec 14, 2017 7:52 am Post subject: Re: Share your wrenching tips and tricks! |
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danfromsyr wrote: |
Rico I was on there way back then in the day.... |
And what a day it was, dan. Sometimes it was a helluva ride; Gerry might not have 100% PC, but we had some fun and everyone survived the experience.
Richie (near The Burgh) |
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joetiger Samba Member
Joined: January 27, 2005 Posts: 5078 Location: denver
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Posted: Thu Dec 14, 2017 8:16 am Post subject: Re: Share your wrenching tips and tricks! |
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RicoS wrote: |
joetiger wrote: |
. . . wish I'd seen it before entering the world of Pennsylvania Rust Hell . . . |
Welcome to God's Country where the men are men and so are some of the women.
You will learn about things you never imagined existed, Grasshopper.
Richie (near The Burgh) |
Oh no, I'm not in Pennsylvania, I'm in Colorful Colorado. My Syncro was bought in Philly and raised in Pennsylvania and NY.
And Unca Joel is truly a stand-up guy. He sent me a copy of the Digifant manual and I helped him with his VIN project. I miss his optimism. _________________ Joe T.
'86 NAHT Vanagon GL Syncro/ supercharged ABA 2.0 "Pigpen"
'04 GTI 1.8T
'04 Golf R32
"get metaphysical with it. if it's simply a means to get to and from places, it will let you down. if it becomes your zen, it can't fail you." -dabaron
"Still, it's good to be afield."--VWagabond
Available Now! Vanagon to Louisiana--A Two-Lane Reckoning Through Past and Present
www.josephtrussell.com |
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Jake de Villiers Samba Member
Joined: October 24, 2007 Posts: 5911 Location: Tsawwassen, BC
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Posted: Thu Dec 14, 2017 9:42 am Post subject: Re: Share your wrenching tips and tricks! |
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joetiger wrote: |
And Unca Joel is truly a stand-up guy. He sent me a copy of the Digifant manual and I helped him with his VIN project. I miss his optimism. |
Yes - Joel is one of the people I miss from the Vanagon List. _________________ '84 Vanagon GL 1.9 WBX
'86 Westy Weekender Poptop/2.5 Subaru/5 Speed Posi/Audi Front Brakes/16 x 7 Mercedes Wheels - answers to 'Dixie'
@jakedevilliersmusic1
http://sites.google.com/site/subyjake/mydixiedarlin%27
www.crescentbeachguitar.com
www.thebassspa.com |
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T3 Pilot Samba Member
Joined: January 10, 2011 Posts: 1507 Location: Deep South of the Great White North
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Posted: Thu Jan 18, 2018 8:54 am Post subject: Re: Share your wrenching tips and tricks! |
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Shop tip for keeping CV joint parts organized when cleaning and inspecting.
Use round paper plates and write the joint location on the plate to keep the parts together and the original orientation on the Van straight in your head.
Useful for planning joint position rotation relative to the Van when putting them back in service. _________________ 1988 Vanagon
The most important part in every vehicle is the nut behind the wheel...... |
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Merian Samba Member
Joined: January 04, 2014 Posts: 5212 Location: Orygun
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Posted: Thu Jan 18, 2018 1:23 pm Post subject: Re: Share your wrenching tips and tricks! |
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Best Tip:
RTFM _________________ .... |
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nemobuscaptain Samba Member
Joined: March 07, 2002 Posts: 3874
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Posted: Sat Jul 14, 2018 10:34 am Post subject: Re: Share your wrenching tips and tricks! |
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Quote: |
Reminds me of the guy (damn, I wish TK were still here, he'd remember his name) on the Gerry list about 30 years ago who described the method his granpap had taught him to loosen rusted-on fasteners.
Richie (near The Burgh) |
Late to the game but no, it wasn't Joel. It was that engineer that did the Heat Rust and Noise page, GM Bulley. (His insulated bus was a terrible failure by the way. Rusted out in no time.)
edit: lulz, it is already in THIS thread but I will do it again.
Quote: |
Folks-
My grandfather was an inventor, and lead machinist for Chrysler during her glory days (1920's-1965). He taught me how to use a slide rule, and a few other things. One of the most important lessons he taught me was how to completely avoid breaking off metal fasteners and rounding bolt heads. If you never want to break a stud again, follow the wisdom of my grandfather, Cyril Leonard Bulley (1903-1987).
(Background, explained in common English). Metal bolts, studs, and nuts that have been fixed in position for a while don't stick because they are too tight. Therefore trying to remove them by turning them is dumb. You simply can't apply enough torque to the fastener without damaging the tool, or the fastener, creating HOURS of work or needless delay in chasing replacements.
Fasteners stick because of covalent or ionic bonding (I forget which, or
maybe it is both). But the point is, when you force two piece of metal into
close contact, and hold them there, PARTICULARLY when there is moisture and heating/cooling present, they start forming tiny bonds between the
molecules of the two parts. This is really easy to see on old corroded
parts, but even on shiny "new-looking" parts, the bonds can be VERY strong. Much stronger than you. But as I said, the way to break those bonds is NOT strength.
The way to loosen them is to use vibration. Yep. You heard right.
VIBRATION. You see, those little bonds can stand up to constant pressure
(like torque) very well. But they are extremely FRAGILE in the face of
focused vibration. Here is how to apply focussed vibration, so you will
NEVER break another fastener again.
Let's say that the fastener is an outer CV joint bolt...the type with the
12-pointed star head that is buried inside your trailing arms. Tough nut?
You bet.
RULE NUMBER ONE: Soak it. Saturate with a penetrating oil for at least one
day. Brand doesn't matter. Use whatever has worked for you in the past.
Just let it do its thing for at least a day. Tougher bolts, and longer
threads: do it for up to a week. You know you are going to work on it, so
start loosening stuff up NOW. Re-saturate just prior to commencing the
loosening procedure, and at least once during the process below.
Next, we are going to create our vibration. Using a 12" ratchet extension
and the 12-pointed star attachment, fully seat the tool into the fastener.
If there is a lot of crud in the fastener, pick it out with a toothpick or
such.
RULE NUMBER TWO: Tap it. Next, using a small hammer, and light blows, begin firmly tapping the end of the ratchet extension, as if to drive the tool
into the bolt. The key here is to use firm taps, NOT heavy blows. You don't
want to damage the tool or the fastener, and you are looking for a
vibration, not an earthquake. Tap if you were driving a small
picture-hanging nail into a cheap sheet rock wall. Tap- tap- tap- tap- tap-
tap- tap- tap- tap- tap- tap- tap- tap- tap. 200 times. That is right
TWO-HUNDRED TAPS, or for about 2 minutes. You want to tap fairly quickly, like the sound of the bell when the stock market closes, or like the bell at a train crossing gate. About 120-140 bpm. Pause to re-apply penetrating oil, and to contemplate the fact that you are saving yourself the abominable misery of a broken bolt. Now tap for another 2-minutes, or 200 taps.
RULE NUMBER THREE. Clean it. Now we are nearly ready for your moment of glory. But first, you MUST make sure that the mating surface between the tool, and the fastener is antiseptically clean. Now some of you are saying "Why the h*ll should I try to clean those bolt heads...have you SEEN where they are???" I sure have. But I'd hate to break off one of those buggers. So I clean the tool and bolt head COMPLETELY with brake-cleaner spray, and a toothpick, if necessary. Do not settle for even one speck of grease or dirt. Any contamination on the mating surfaces can either lubricate, or cause mis-alignment of the tool and the fastener, inviting calamity. Brak-kleen is cheaper than Easy-outs, and easier to work with.
RULE NUMBER THREE also implies that you will have tools that are in good
condition. Sockets, screw drivers, hex-heads that are worn, rounded, or
damaged are not fit to attempt to loosen bonded fasteners...place all of
your damaged tools in a small kit and give it to your child to play with.
If your tools are rounded, you WILL round the head on bolts, etc.
Finally, with your clean tool, mate the tool and the fastener. Press firmly
in the proper direction to keep the tool mated securely with the fastener,
and apply a single, heavy push of torque to loosen the bolt. AMAZING, Huh? Came right off without strain. It always will.
This same procedure will work for any bolt, nut, screw, hex-head, even
plumbing fittings. For nuts, (like the 15mm head nuts on a type 4) I tap
200 times with a 15mm socket (which chiefly vibrates the washer and the
bolt). Then I switch to a junked 14mm (which does not fit over the nut
faces, but focuses the vibration on the nut), for 200 more taps. Use your
best judgement.
It is a habit you will get in that will save you hundreds of hours if you
work on old junk frequently. Soak it, Tap it, Clean it.
G. Matthew Bulley |
_________________ Ohio Valley Tribe, Full Moon Bus Club https://www.facebook.com/groups/294422277314227/
https://www.facebook.com/groups/FullMoonBusClub
RIP Bob Hoover https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=427791
Hoover Sermons: https://www.vwsage.com/images/vwsage/Bob%20Hoovers%20Sermons.pdf
Last edited by nemobuscaptain on Sat Jul 14, 2018 10:50 am; edited 1 time in total |
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nemobuscaptain Samba Member
Joined: March 07, 2002 Posts: 3874
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Posted: Sat Jul 14, 2018 10:46 am Post subject: |
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kbeefy wrote: |
nemobuscaptain wrote: |
Here's a post from GM Bulley, of the vw heat rust and noise site fame.
-----
Folks-
My grandfather was an inventor.... |
quite a lengthy and thorough explanation, thank you!
I, unfortunately, don't have the patience for this method for every bolt I think might give me trouble. Instead of 200 light raps, I substitute 3-5 very substantial raps. It's surprising how much this helps.
Another tip, that I haven't tried yet, is an alternate penetrating lubricant.
50/50 acetone/ATF reportedly works wonders. I keep intending to mix some of this stuff up and giving it a shot. |
More necroposting, but I agree.
You can usually tell which of those buggers is going to give you trouble, right? Those are the ones I use full Grandpa Bulley technique on.
I would add that heat is the next option. That propane torch is always around but make sure you have it clean enough the caked on oil or penetrating fluid doesnt catch on fire.
I'm sure people from the southwest who have rarely ever even seen rust think we are crazy. _________________ Ohio Valley Tribe, Full Moon Bus Club https://www.facebook.com/groups/294422277314227/
https://www.facebook.com/groups/FullMoonBusClub
RIP Bob Hoover https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=427791
Hoover Sermons: https://www.vwsage.com/images/vwsage/Bob%20Hoovers%20Sermons.pdf |
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jlrftype7 Samba Member
Joined: July 24, 2018 Posts: 3581 Location: Chicago
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Posted: Thu Aug 16, 2018 1:13 pm Post subject: Re: Share your wrenching tips and tricks! |
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To wrap Electrical Tape in a tight area where you don't have enough room to spin a normal/full sized roll- Do This: Take a small 1/4" drive socket, pick one that you don't normally use, like 12mm, wrap your electrical tape around the socket, getting a good amount on it. Now use that socket like a spool, and spin it around your wire or harness in that small space you're working in. Works great and if it's a socket you almost never use, you can leave what ever tape you didn't use for the next wiring job.
If you use 1/4" Hex driver bits in a cordless tool or impact Driver, there's a really neat Magnet from FastCap that I highly recommend, esp. for Interior and Dash Work. It's a Red plastic shield of 2 magnets , that allow for different sized hex or screwdriver shank sizes to fi through the two magents. You slide the magnet over your bit, and now you can loosen ,and not lose, that steel bolt or screw.
You are now also set for reinstalling since even a long driver bit can have the magnet slid down near the tip to hold your fastener. The plastic prevents marring Dash Plastic or Leather/Vinyl material for the most part since it's soft enough generally, and being Red,you don't lose it in a car that easily either. I own multiple ones, for work and for home. |
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61Scout Samba Member
Joined: November 06, 2011 Posts: 1297 Location: Shoreline/Yakima WA
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Posted: Sun Aug 19, 2018 4:37 pm Post subject: Re: Share your wrenching tips and tricks! |
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Here's a tip that someone might find useful. If you've ever found that a tube of silicone or perhaps some touch up paint has dried up from sitting around too long, here's an easy solution. Invest in a vacuum sealer. They aren't terribly expensive if buying new, maybe $60. But like a crockpot, it also seems to be one of those kitchen items that can always be found in the local thrift store for under $10. Also craigslist, offerup, letgo, and yard sales are good places to find one on the cheap. Not only are they awesome for food storage needs, but they are very handy to have around the workshop. I like to buy the long continuous rolls and simply cut the bags I need. With the money you save by not having sealants, adhesives and paints go bad from sitting on the shelf, it will pay for itself.
Here's the little vacuum sealer I use:
Simply cut the bag to the size you need and seal on three sides. I like to leave it a little long so I can use the bag again.
The finished product. This silicone (for my house) will be ready to use the next time I need it, even years from now.
Regards,
Kevin _________________ 1986 Westfalia Weekender Wolfsburg, RJE 2.3
1985 Tin Top, Subie 2.2 + 5MT
Floppy Mirrors no more: http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=653018&highlight=
Remove the front spindle nut with ease: https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=679567&highlight=
Remove the rear wheel bearing housing without messing with the big 46mm nut: https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=679507&highlight=
-Nec Spe, Nec Metu |
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