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Coolant Pipe Ok?
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tmart
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 09, 2017 3:54 pm    Post subject: Coolant Pipe Ok? Reply with quote

Hey everyone,

I was going to replace my coolant pipes with silicon hose from here: https://www.amazon.com/Vibrant-Performance-2048-Longsilicone-Heater/dp/B001QKNJ2E but I'm getting cold feet. I don't like how easily the hose kinks. So now I'm wondering if my stock coolant pipes will do.

The reason I wanted to replace them is because the radiator end of one side (can't remember which is feed/return) looks like this:
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Is this a fix that someone else put in? The other three ends are just standard plastic.

So does this look like it should be ok in the van? Or should I be replacing? I have both pipes out right now, but don't mind putting them back in if that's the best course of action.
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 09, 2017 4:00 pm    Post subject: Re: Coolant Pipe Ok? Reply with quote

No, that pipe is ready to destroy your engine.

Source a stainless steel replacement for both of them.

Do not continue to run that pipe as is.

Some have pushed that metal end back in and secured it with a screw, they claim success. Me? I'd worry every mile that I drove with a repair like this.

GoWesty has a repair kit for the ends, but it's effectiveness and design theory comes under question by some.

Dave
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tmart
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 09, 2017 9:07 pm    Post subject: Re: Coolant Pipe Ok? Reply with quote

Oh man, well guess I lucked out yanking them already.

I'm going to try out that radiator hose I linked, if that doesn't work out, I might end up having to swing for the stainless tubes.
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 09, 2017 9:17 pm    Post subject: Re: Coolant Pipe Ok? Reply with quote

All four ends should have those sleeves cast into the plastic. They push out from improper mixture of coolant and water and they rust and expand and work their way out. They are designed to be there so that the hose clamp has something to bite into and you do not compress the plastic.
I have seen numerous vans which have had the inserts pushed back in and riveted in place and it seems to work. I bought an almost OE set of plastic pipes from GW years ago and within 1 years time the insert had pushed its way out.
If you don't have the inserts I would replace the pipes with SS and not have to worry about it again.

Stacy
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Wildthings
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 09, 2017 9:22 pm    Post subject: Re: Coolant Pipe Ok? Reply with quote

Marine coolant hose shouldn't kink, if you don't wan't go with SS then go with the marine hose.

For what it's worth, when the ends blew off the hoses on my Syncro 20+ years back, I cut rings from a piece of sink drain plumbing (1 1/2" I think) and clued them onto the ends of the plastic coolant hoses. This repair lasted for a decade plus until I took the rig out of service for unrelated issues.
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 09, 2017 9:23 pm    Post subject: Re: Coolant Pipe Ok? Reply with quote

pull the metal sleeve out carefully.
clean it up, and the plastic pipe.
with a little WD40 tap the sleeve back into the plastic and with a 1/8in drill then stainless rivet, maybe 2 on opposing sides.. it's good again.

but your time your money and your feelings on fear of faliure.. I don't have any and have dozens of years on multiple repaired ends..

this pic from my gallery isn't really as bad as yours but i've done ones in similiar shape.


danfromsyr wrote:
cats_r_cute wrote:
...or just rivet the insert to the original pipe and forget about them. no travel anymore. Smile


Cheap and easy and I've never in my many years of listening, and owning vanagons heard of a failed plastic line in the middle.
spreading fear and misconception is great on the intenets for those that sell the upgrade pipes. Rolling Eyes

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PostPosted: Sat Dec 09, 2017 10:19 pm    Post subject: Re: Coolant Pipe Ok? Reply with quote

I replaced my coolant pipes this fall with SS versions. I chose to cut my oem pipes for removal. After seeing how well they resisted my jigsaw and other implements of destruction, I sort of wish that I went with the rivit fix.

OP, search for the thread about aluminum coolant pipes and all the threads about galvanic corrosion. That stuff may influence your decision/
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 10, 2017 4:27 am    Post subject: Re: Coolant Pipe Ok? Reply with quote

tmart wrote:
Oh man, well guess I lucked out yanking them already.

I'm going to try out that radiator hose I linked, if that doesn't work out, I might end up having to swing for the stainless tubes.


I wouldn't ^^^^^

Do you really want to experiment with your cooling system flow?
What happens to your engine if it does kink?
How will you keep it from sagging from weight when filled with coolant?

Opt for the stiff marine hose or replacement pre-bent replacement pipe.

But...... I tend to worry about such "what if" scenarios.......

Dave
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 10, 2017 7:41 am    Post subject: Re: Coolant Pipe Ok? Reply with quote

Ill back the marine hose. I used it in my swap and its not going to kink. Real thick and mine has a wire in it. Not cheap though and poss more than new pipes (doubt stainless though).
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 10, 2017 10:09 am    Post subject: Re: Coolant Pipe Ok? Reply with quote

About $75 for each 12.5 foot long hose, so $150 for both, plus at least $50+ for accessories.

Photo is wrong but this on Amazon is the stuff.
https://www.amazon.com/Shields-Marine-Shieldsflex-...hieldsflex

The 1-1/4" Marine hose with a wire coil molded inside to prevent kinks is what I use. I recently used it again on an 86 to replace both long plastic pipes when one of them suddenly split in the middle. The pipe wasn't at fault, someone had removed some of the supports that keep it from sagging. Over time the pipes bounced up and down enough times for a split to happen, on the top of the pipe.

You also need 4 hose couplers and 4 more clamps. To replace plastic pipes I use short metal hose couplers that are 1-1/4" on one end and 1-1/2 on the other to mate with the VW rubber hoses.

The hose is quite stiff and very tough. So it is a bit of a pain to work with and you have to think carefully about how to do it. Most people are probably better off buying the correct aftermarket metal replacement pipes.

Mark
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 10, 2017 10:23 am    Post subject: Re: Coolant Pipe Ok? Reply with quote

Like Dan, I repaired my pushed out metal inserts with pop rivets. Heated the tube, tapped the inserts back in and popped a couple of rivets in to locate the little buggers.

~75,000 trouble free miles and counting.
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 10, 2017 3:08 pm    Post subject: Re: Coolant Pipe Ok? Reply with quote

we've run marine hose on Dad's van as well. it's a good solid long lasting repair as well.

then there's the aluminum vs stainless debacle I mean debate... Wink


any of them are fine.. all depends on personal feelings ambition, caution and $$..
shit in my 1st H2o swap, I used bent top rail galvanized fence pipe from my brother's yard that a tree fell upon in a windstorm.. was a nice fit but had to put a spot weld to keep the hose from sliding off.. ran for a few years.
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 10, 2017 3:20 pm    Post subject: Re: Coolant Pipe Ok? Reply with quote

[quote="danfromsyr"
. . . in my first H2o swap, I used bent top rail galvanized fence pipe from my brother's yard that a tree fell upon in a windstorm.. was a nice fit but had to put a spot weld to keep the hose from sliding off.. ran for a few years.[/quote]

Now this is what real VW ownership is about, knowing how to get by need be.
Most things we buy are top end and our vans are dripping with lots of "upgrades" where in reality there are lots of "Fixes" that would and do serve us well up to the time the van is retired, stolen or well you know . . .

Stacy
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tmart
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 14, 2017 9:59 am    Post subject: Re: Coolant Pipe Ok? Reply with quote

I went with the rivet fix. It's all my wallet can handle for now, but this'll probably be the next thing I upgrade when I get the chance.

I didn't get the memo on heating the tube to get the insert back in, so I just went as far as I could go.
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


I drilled 3 holes for the rivets at each end. I didn't want coolant to come through/around the rivets so I used thermostat sealant on the rivet flange to seal around the sides.
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


The thermostat sealant directions said to "hand tighten", which I took to mean one rivet gun pump, then to tighten fully after one hour. (Accidentally snapped one of the rivets early, oh well.)
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Hour's up, tightened things down.
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Of course, my rivet gun chose a great time to break on me. The last two rivet shanks broke really high up. I had to yank on those with some vice grips, which ended up slicing them moreso than snapping them. I sanded the ends down.
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Then, to seal the inside of the rivets, I used JB Weld. I got a syringe at rite aid and put some mixed JB Weld into it.
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Pumped into the rivet holes:
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


I read somewhere that the epoxy sticks to aluminum (my riveter couldn't handle the ss rivets) better when it's wet sanded with the epoxy to remove the oxide layer, so I put some sandpaper on the end of a kebab stick and scratched things up inside.
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Filled with some more JB and wiped clean, final product:
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


I forgot to take pics but I put some JB Weld on the rivet ends inside the tube too. Probably no point, but I got myself worked up that the rivet head was going to fall out into the coolant stream.
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 14, 2017 10:08 am    Post subject: Re: Coolant Pipe Ok? Reply with quote

you don't really need to sweat the rivets leaking as much as you are.
the rubber hose covers them and the clamps hold tight..
it's really the same risk of leaking as it would be normally..

the rivet heads to help the rubber hose to stay put when the end lip is missing like yours are.

you can use 2 hose clamps if you are concerned of hose slippage.

the metal inserts job is to keep the plastic from deforming under the clamp pressure and heat cycles.. so as long as the metal is seated in and can't work it's way out (1 rivet is enough) then it's doing it's job..

these only have to handle 15-16PSI... more than that and the cap is venting..
and you already have other issues then..

good job.. Wink
use the $$ saved for something else.
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 15, 2017 1:30 pm    Post subject: Re: Coolant Pipe Ok? Reply with quote

This thread would be at 6 pages and about to be locked if TK was still here
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 15, 2017 1:47 pm    Post subject: Re: Coolant Pipe Ok? Reply with quote

*cough* aluminum coolant pipes *cough*

ahh here it is.... history baby..
fun reading on a cold winters night.
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=436144
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