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Bleyseng Samba Member
Joined: July 03, 2005 Posts: 4752 Location: Seattle
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Posted: Thu Jan 11, 2018 9:24 am Post subject: Re: Is Raby’s “Camper Special”, Special ?? Must read !! |
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TravelingInAFriedOutKombi wrote: |
Just read this entire post and all replies. Damn did I learn a lot about my engine. I was just quoted $4000 to rebuild the top end of my FI type 4. Now that I know quality parts aren't even available- I won't be throwing my money away. Seems to me the best options now are (obviously) pay Jake 25k to do it right, throw a type 1 in there and rebuild it every 50k miles, or do a subie conversion.
As a poor college kid who just paid $4500 for the bus, I think I'm shit outta luck. The PO told me that the motor had been rebuilt 17k miles ago. I believed him based on me driving it for about 50 miles before pulling the trigger. Funny how things end up. I think I'll be exiting the VW community until I have real money. Or I win the lottery.
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Just buy the parts yourself-
HAM heads-$2500
Camshaft kit-$935
P&C's-$230
Main Bearings-$75
Cam Bearings-$113
Rod Bearings-$55
Total $3900
Quit crying as it cost about the same to due a quality rebuild on a V8. So put it together yourself as it's not hard and having 100hp/130lb torque in a bus is amazing! _________________ 70 Ghia Black convert-9/69 build date-stock w/133k 1600 SP-barn find now with a rebuilt tranny and engine
77 Westy 2.0L w/Ljet, Camper Special engine-95hp and with LSD!(sold)
76 Porsche 914 2.1L L20c, 120hp Djet (sold)
87 Syncro Westy Titan Red 2.1L 2 knob 100k miles |
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busman78 Samba Member
Joined: August 17, 2004 Posts: 4524 Location: Oklahoma City, OK
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Posted: Thu Jan 11, 2018 11:30 am Post subject: Re: Is Raby’s “Camper Special”, Special ?? Must read !! |
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Save a little more by dropping the cam kit, put together one by using Web or CB parts and save at least $500 if not more. $113 for cam bearings, you are kidding right? Buy two sets of Type 1 bearings for about $40 and save yourself seventy-three dollars.
Not knocking Jake, I have bought his goodies, built engines with them, even a DTM, but if you are low on funds there are ways to have a quality build with a little less jingle. |
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Wildthings Samba Member
Joined: March 13, 2005 Posts: 50353
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Posted: Thu Jan 11, 2018 11:58 am Post subject: Re: Is Raby’s “Camper Special”, Special ?? Must read !! |
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TravelingInAFriedOutKombi wrote: |
Just read this entire post and all replies. Damn did I learn a lot about my engine. I was just quoted $4000 to rebuild the top end of my FI type 4. Now that I know quality parts aren't even available- I won't be throwing my money away. Seems to me the best options now are (obviously) pay Jake 25k to do it right, throw a type 1 in there and rebuild it every 50k miles, or do a subie conversion.
As a poor college kid who just paid $4500 for the bus, I think I'm shit outta luck. The PO told me that the motor had been rebuilt 17k miles ago. I believed him based on me driving it for about 50 miles before pulling the trigger. Funny how things end up. I think I'll be exiting the VW community until I have real money. Or I win the lottery.
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I paid $50 for a Type 4 car 15ish years ago which had an unknown engine sitting in the back hatch area, after making several attempts to sell the engine as is, even offering a guaranty I eventually cleaned it up and resealed it. When my old high mileage engine went I threw in this unknown engine and and drove it for a year and then pulled the heads off and had a local shop replace the exhaust valves and recut the seats for $300. I also reringed the pistons. Probably have about $500 into the engine at this point in time and have maybe 20K miles on it, suspect it will last me at least another 30K if not much more. You don't need a $25,000 engine to enjoy driving up and down the road.
Last edited by Wildthings on Thu Jan 11, 2018 12:32 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Q-Dog Samba Member
Joined: April 05, 2010 Posts: 8700 Location: Sunset, Louisiana
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alman72 Samba Member
Joined: October 09, 2014 Posts: 2573 Location: MICHIGAN
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Posted: Thu Jan 11, 2018 2:30 pm Post subject: Re: Is Raby’s “Camper Special”, Special ?? Must read !! |
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but then he would need plutonium, and i'm sure that in the future, plutonium is available in every corner drug store, but in 2018 it's a little hard to come by. |
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Bleyseng Samba Member
Joined: July 03, 2005 Posts: 4752 Location: Seattle
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Posted: Thu Jan 11, 2018 6:05 pm Post subject: Re: Is Raby’s “Camper Special”, Special ?? Must read !! |
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busman78 wrote: |
Save a little more by dropping the cam kit, put together one by using Web or CB parts and save at least $500 if not more. $113 for cam bearings, you are kidding right? Buy two sets of Type 1 bearings for about $40 and save yourself seventy-three dollars.
Not knocking Jake, I have bought his goodies, built engines with them, even a DTM, but if you are low on funds there are ways to have a quality build with a little less jingle. |
Yes, you "could" buy a Web 142 which would save money but cut HP down to 70 hp. Use a Web73 along with the HAM CS heads to get that 100hp number.
That Cam kit has all the parts you need for a better than stock engine- Porsche swivel feet, Chromoly pushrods, etc _________________ 70 Ghia Black convert-9/69 build date-stock w/133k 1600 SP-barn find now with a rebuilt tranny and engine
77 Westy 2.0L w/Ljet, Camper Special engine-95hp and with LSD!(sold)
76 Porsche 914 2.1L L20c, 120hp Djet (sold)
87 Syncro Westy Titan Red 2.1L 2 knob 100k miles |
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otiswesty Samba Member
Joined: November 21, 2006 Posts: 1731 Location: Portland
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Posted: Thu Jan 11, 2018 10:17 pm Post subject: Re: Is Raby’s “Camper Special”, Special ?? Must read !! |
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When yours dies, put one of these in in a weekend, not as hard on the wallet and ready to go
http://www.busdepot.com/022100625a _________________ 1978 Sage Green P22 Westfalia
1989 T3 Syncro Single cab
Just a regular guy |
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aerosurfer Samba Member
Joined: March 25, 2012 Posts: 1602 Location: Indianapolis, IN
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Posted: Fri Jan 12, 2018 6:20 am Post subject: Re: Is Raby’s “Camper Special”, Special ?? Must read !! |
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Built by AVP... don’t do that _________________ Rebuild your own FI Harness..My Harness
77 Westy 2.0L Rockin and Rolling Resto!
72 Sportsmobile (sold)
79 Tran$porter... Parts car money machine (gone) |
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KentABQ Samba Member
Joined: September 11, 2016 Posts: 2406 Location: Albuquerque NM
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Posted: Fri Jan 12, 2018 6:29 am Post subject: Re: Is Raby’s “Camper Special”, Special ?? Must read !! |
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aerosurfer wrote: |
Built by AVP... don’t do that |
Why is that, Aero?
GEX is thrashed in the buyer's forum, but AVP only has one feedback and it's a positive one. If you had a bad experience, add it to the forum to warn others.
(And there's also one positive feedback for GEX. But if you throw enough of them together, you're bound to get one right occasionally, no?) _________________ -Kent-
1976 Riviera, 1.8l FI chrome yellow VAN - "Chloe"
"I must say, how can you be in a bad mood driving this vehicle full of vibrant color.
Cars of today are so bland in comparison. It's like driving a celebration!" ---WildIdea
Bus ownership via emoticons:
---williamM |
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busman78 Samba Member
Joined: August 17, 2004 Posts: 4524 Location: Oklahoma City, OK
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Posted: Fri Jan 12, 2018 7:00 am Post subject: Re: Is Raby’s “Camper Special”, Special ?? Must read !! |
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Bleyseng there are other cam grinders out in the world besides Web, there are other swivel feet adjusters available beside Porsche and they work just as good. Chrome moly push rods are nice, but if a person is on a budget the stockers will work.
All I am saying is a quality engine can be assembled without getting discourage by being bombarded with rolls royce priced parts and kits when other options are available. |
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aerosurfer Samba Member
Joined: March 25, 2012 Posts: 1602 Location: Indianapolis, IN
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Posted: Fri Jan 12, 2018 7:23 am Post subject: Re: Is Raby’s “Camper Special”, Special ?? Must read !! |
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KentPS wrote: |
aerosurfer wrote: |
Built by AVP... don’t do that |
Why is that, Aero?
GEX is thrashed in the buyer's forum, but AVP only has one feedback and it's a positive one. If you had a bad experience, add it to the forum to warn others.
(And there's also one positive feedback for GEX. But if you throw enough of them together, you're bound to get one right occasionally, no?) |
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/search.php?searc...=titleonly
I researched them prior to my build.... older threads but enough to make me think twice back in 2012 _________________ Rebuild your own FI Harness..My Harness
77 Westy 2.0L Rockin and Rolling Resto!
72 Sportsmobile (sold)
79 Tran$porter... Parts car money machine (gone) |
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KentABQ Samba Member
Joined: September 11, 2016 Posts: 2406 Location: Albuquerque NM
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Posted: Fri Jan 12, 2018 7:37 am Post subject: Re: Is Raby’s “Camper Special”, Special ?? Must read !! |
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Good to know. Thanks. _________________ -Kent-
1976 Riviera, 1.8l FI chrome yellow VAN - "Chloe"
"I must say, how can you be in a bad mood driving this vehicle full of vibrant color.
Cars of today are so bland in comparison. It's like driving a celebration!" ---WildIdea
Bus ownership via emoticons:
---williamM |
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Bleyseng Samba Member
Joined: July 03, 2005 Posts: 4752 Location: Seattle
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Posted: Fri Jan 12, 2018 8:56 am Post subject: Re: Is Raby’s “Camper Special”, Special ?? Must read !! |
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busman78 wrote: |
Bleyseng there are other cam grinders out in the world besides Web, there are other swivel feet adjusters available beside Porsche and they work just as good. Chrome moly push rods are nice, but if a person is on a budget the stockers will work.
All I am saying is a quality engine can be assembled without getting discourage by being bombarded with rolls royce priced parts and kits when other options are available. |
Sure there are others and I have tried them so my Personal recommendation based on my experience building engines is Webcam and for sure Porsche swivel feet. If on a budget get the AVP engine as maybe it will run and last a few thousand miles.
If you want the BEST get the Camper Special kit w/Nikkies and all the other goodies for a top of the market engine that will last 100,000 miles and not drop valve seats , run quiet plus be 110+horsepower. _________________ 70 Ghia Black convert-9/69 build date-stock w/133k 1600 SP-barn find now with a rebuilt tranny and engine
77 Westy 2.0L w/Ljet, Camper Special engine-95hp and with LSD!(sold)
76 Porsche 914 2.1L L20c, 120hp Djet (sold)
87 Syncro Westy Titan Red 2.1L 2 knob 100k miles |
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otiswesty Samba Member
Joined: November 21, 2006 Posts: 1731 Location: Portland
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Posted: Fri Jan 12, 2018 10:25 am Post subject: Re: Is Raby’s “Camper Special”, Special ?? Must read !! |
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aerosurfer wrote: |
KentPS wrote: |
aerosurfer wrote: |
Built by AVP... don’t do that |
Why is that, Aero?
GEX is thrashed in the buyer's forum, but AVP only has one feedback and it's a positive one. If you had a bad experience, add it to the forum to warn others.
(And there's also one positive feedback for GEX. But if you throw enough of them together, you're bound to get one right occasionally, no?) |
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/search.php?searc...=titleonly
I researched them prior to my build.... older threads but enough to make me think twice back in 2012 |
Well, I posted it as the OP was looking for a budget motor repair and was balking at $4K of top end work. Given some of the AVP feedback threads, they may be better off avoided. I wonder what the BusDepot warranty is on them. _________________ 1978 Sage Green P22 Westfalia
1989 T3 Syncro Single cab
Just a regular guy |
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skills@eurocarsplus Samba Peckerhead
Joined: January 01, 2007 Posts: 16886 Location: sticksville, ct.
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Posted: Fri Jan 12, 2018 11:15 am Post subject: Re: Is Raby’s “Camper Special”, Special ?? Must read !! |
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otiswesty wrote: |
. I wonder what the BusDepot warranty is on them. |
last I knew it was "here is AVP's number. sorry" _________________
gprudenciop wrote: |
my reason for switching to subaru is my german car was turning chinese so i said fuck it and went japanese....... |
Jake Raby wrote: |
Thanks for the correction. I used to be a nice guy, then I ruined it by exposing myself to the public. |
Brian wrote: |
Also the fact that people are agreeing with Skills, it's a turn of events for samba history |
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richparker Samba Member
Joined: November 24, 2011 Posts: 6986 Location: Durango, CO
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Posted: Fri Jan 12, 2018 6:26 pm Post subject: Re: Is Raby’s “Camper Special”, Special ?? Must read !! |
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I gotta say, it’s a classic car. If you want it to be shitty and unreliable buy shitty parts. If you want it to be good, “you gotta pay to play!” Maybe everyone doesn’t have to pay the $20k Raby charged, but you still have to pay. I’ve spent many a thousands of dollars on engines and I’ll say this, the builder is everything. So...if Raby is the best builder his price will reflect that. _________________ __________
’71 Westy build
Adventure thread
’65 Deluxe Build
’63 Deluxe Build |
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DougB Samba Member
Joined: January 09, 2007 Posts: 1076 Location: Falls Church, Virginia, USA
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Posted: Sun Jan 14, 2018 2:50 am Post subject: Re: Is Raby’s “Camper Special”, Special ?? Must read !! |
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I own the last CS Jake built and it didn’t cost anywhere near $20K. That’s just what he said he’d have to start charging to continue building the CS for others.
- Doug _________________ '75 Campmobile (tin-top to SpaceRoof)
'73 Fastback
'52 BMW R67/2
'41 Zundapp KS600
'55 Puch SGS250
A very, very understanding wife |
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raygreenwood Samba Member
Joined: November 24, 2008 Posts: 21520 Location: Oklahoma City
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Posted: Sun Jan 14, 2018 1:19 pm Post subject: Re: Is Raby’s “Camper Special”, Special ?? Must read !! |
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DougB wrote: |
I own the last CS Jake built and it didn’t cost anywhere near $20K. That’s just what he said he’d have to start charging to continue building the CS for others.
- Doug |
Actually it probably will cost $20-25k....and a quote would probably gove you a price "range"...and not an exact total cost.
From comments Jake has made over the years....the biggest problem is good parts and good cores. He is NOT going to cut corners even 1% because his name is on it. Every part he puts in...and every machine work action will have to meet exact specs.
To do that with the current level of parts available on the market....any parts bought will have to be basically re-machined or added to to bring them up to spec. That is MONEY.
Or...some parts will have to be top notch parts that are made custom to his spec....more MONEY. This for example is where the custom cam grinds, the Nikkis cylinders with custom pistons and the specialty coatings for heads, custom made exhausts etc, the greatly upgraded heads....worked out fuel systems and ignition systems...came from.
When he still owned the type 4 store..and going into the setting up of that store and the making of the kits way back when...the whole idea was to get the volume up of these types of "better than factory" builds......so that all of those custom parts could be built in a high enough volume that he COULD offer engine builds and kits that were quality but did not cost $20k.
However the client base....partly... ...failed him. For instance...getting a camper special...built... for $9-12k....would be a bargain indeed!...even 10 years ago!
Getting the kit........and being able to do the due-diligence that was needed in getting the engine cores, ignition and fuel systems together yourself....for $6-8k....is a steal!
But too many people who wanted this product.... biotched and moaned about the price. Probably some other clients.... who did their own assembly from a kit...did not always do the level of work required. That makes for difficulties.
So without a huge volume of clients to make the high end parts pool exactly cheap (or as cheap as most VW people actually are)....and the cores for engines not getting any better......it takes a LOT of labor and machine work to make an engine at this level now.....and he is not going to do any of the upgrades and work at a loss of profit (nor should he have to).
To get a CS...actually made, assembled, tested and warranted by Jake...I could easily see it NOT being less than 15k and easily being close to 20k. Ray |
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lil-jinx Samba Member
Joined: August 14, 2013 Posts: 1109 Location: New Brunswick,Canada
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airkooledchris Samba Member
Joined: January 25, 2005 Posts: 2713
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Posted: Mon Jan 15, 2018 11:34 am Post subject: Re: Is Raby’s “Camper Special”, Special ?? Must read !! |
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aerosurfer wrote: |
Built by AVP... don’t do that |
X100000
not AVP. NEVER AVP. same chance of a good build as with GEX. reused parts that should have been thrown in the trash 100k miles ago.
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The Web73 cam is a great suggestion and will still work with factory FI. |
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