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Neutral Safety Switch?? - URGENT
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equinox
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 03, 2018 6:14 am    Post subject: Neutral Safety Switch?? - URGENT Reply with quote

When my '77 T2 bus engine dies, it willnot allow me to just put it up 1 notch on the automatic trans and start in neutral. I have to come to a COMPLETE stop, put the level in Park, start it, then put in drive again and go!

This is very, very dangerous. I have heard there may be some sort o neutral safety switch orsomething in the lever??

Can anyone shed some light on this and also how to defeat it? Again, if this was in the design, it is a HORRIBLE idea for me to be going down a road or highway at 50MPH or whataver and then having to stop in the middle fo the street!! :O

Please advise and thanks in advance.
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 03, 2018 6:34 am    Post subject: Re: Neutral Safety Switch?? - URGENT Reply with quote

I think most cars are like that?

I would be looking into why my Bus dies so often. That is the real problem.
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 03, 2018 6:41 am    Post subject: Re: Neutral Safety Switch?? - URGENT Reply with quote

I believe it is the design but if your engine is stalling at speed thatís the thing to focus on as dangerous
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 03, 2018 6:55 am    Post subject: Re: Neutral Safety Switch?? - URGENT Reply with quote

Check the Bently diagram for the shifter. There is a Teflon bar with contacts that wears out. Perhaps the contact for neutral is pooched
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 03, 2018 7:51 am    Post subject: Re: Neutral Safety Switch?? - URGENT Reply with quote

There is an adjustable "contact plate" under the shifter housing in the cabin that allows you to start the engine in Park and Neutral. The reverse lights also go through this switch, so you might want to check if the reverse lights come on only in Reverse.
Colin
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 03, 2018 8:02 am    Post subject: Re: Neutral Safety Switch?? - URGENT Reply with quote

If by chance the switch is bad, last time I checked, the switch, although long NLA was available as an Echlin part from NAPA Auto Parts. I do agree with all the other here in that the bus should be tuned so it doesn't die so often. Sounds like you have 2 problems - the bus dying and the switch.

NAPA ECH NS6827 (getting rare)


from an older thread on the same switch:
SGKent wrote:
...

Look like this?

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


http://www.germansupply.com/home/customer/product.php?productid=17419&cat=295&page=2

http://www.evwparts.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Scr...e=ACSwitch

http://www.busdepot.com/311927147b

maybe this one at napa? They still may be able to find one.
https://www.napaonline.com/napa/en/p/ECHNS6827/ECHNS6827

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Last edited by SGKent on Wed Jan 03, 2018 12:28 pm; edited 4 times in total
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 03, 2018 8:39 am    Post subject: Re: Neutral Safety Switch?? - URGENT Reply with quote

equinox wrote:
When my '77 T2 bus engine dies, it willnot allow me to just put it up 1 notch on the automatic trans and start in neutral. I have to come to a COMPLETE stop, put the level in Park, start it, then put in drive again and go!


Your engine should never stall. Fix that.
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 03, 2018 9:07 am    Post subject: Re: Neutral Safety Switch?? - URGENT Reply with quote

I'd bypass the neutral safety switch..

IMO starting up an AT in gear is no different than a standard. both have the potential of driving on start..

and yes. FIX your stalling problem.
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 03, 2018 10:21 am    Post subject: Re: Neutral Safety Switch?? - URGENT Reply with quote

danfromsyr wrote:
I'd bypass the neutral safety switch..

IMO starting up an AT in gear is no different than a standard. both have the potential of driving on start..

and yes. FIX your stalling problem.


Let's not de-content the functionality of our cars until a good college try has been applied to a simple adjustment/check of the switch.

I have seen tragic (tragic I tell ya) "bypasses" of ignition switches that could have been cured in the spot with simply seating the T-8 connector on the steering column support that got jarred loose three months ago when someone was trying to bypass the start wiring! All those dumb toggles and push button switches screwed through the priceless dashboard vinyl . . .

In this case, the fact that the switch WORKS is a mark in its favor to just adjust the thing.
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equinox
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 03, 2018 5:43 pm    Post subject: Re: Neutral Safety Switch?? - URGENT Reply with quote

Thanks for the feedback, but PLEASE focus on my Subject and question (I'm handling the stalling issues seperately).

Quote:
There is an adjustable "contact plate" under the shifter housing in the cabin that allows you to start the engine in Park and Neutral. The reverse lights also go through this switch, so you might want to check if the reverse lights come on only in Reverse.
Colin


This is where I'm confused. The manual as Colin and my mechanic pointed out SHOULD start in BOTH...PARK and NEUTRAL. It does NOT in Nautral and you turn the key and there is NO cranking!!

My questions are thus:

1. Should I be able to start the bus in nautral?? If yes, they need to fix the problem, but if the answer is actually no,
2. I want whatever is preventing it from cranking in nautral bypassed and resolved. Every AUTOMATIC car that I have ever been in allows you to do this and start in park AND neutral. To not be able to do it and a car stalls, for whatever reason, this is HUGE issue and people can be killed from getting slammed into by another vehicle while trying to put it in park to restart it.

These are the questions. Please advise accordingly.
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 03, 2018 5:58 pm    Post subject: Re: Neutral Safety Switch?? - URGENT Reply with quote

as youíve already been advised, you need to clean and/or adjust the switch.
replace it only if itís obviously shot.
yes, it should start in N or P.
my auto van (same part) would require a wiggle of the shifter from time to time to get good contact on the saftey switch.
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 03, 2018 6:04 pm    Post subject: Re: Neutral Safety Switch?? - URGENT Reply with quote

equinox wrote:
Thanks for the feedback, but PLEASE focus on my Subject and question (I'm handling the stalling issues seperately).

Quote:
There is an adjustable "contact plate" under the shifter housing in the cabin that allows you to start the engine in Park and Neutral. The reverse lights also go through this switch, so you might want to check if the reverse lights come on only in Reverse.
Colin


This is where I'm confused. The manual as Colin and my mechanic pointed out SHOULD start in BOTH...PARK and NEUTRAL. It does NOT in Nautral and you turn the key and there is NO cranking!!

My questions are thus:

1. Should I be able to start the bus in nautral?? If yes, they need to fix the problem, but if the answer is actually no,
2. I want whatever is preventing it from cranking in nautral bypassed and resolved. Every AUTOMATIC car that I have ever been in allows you to do this and start in park AND neutral. To not be able to do it and a car stalls, for whatever reason, this is HUGE issue and people can be killed from getting slammed into by another vehicle while trying to put it in park to restart it.

These are the questions. Please advise accordingly.



Geeze.

I think I answered you directly enough. YES, it should be able to start in Park and Neutral.
1) Go adjust the switch. It may be very slightly out of adjustment and killing the neutral position. I did ask you if the reverse lights work in the correct spot, that is a CLUE about which way you may need to adjust the switch, but you didn't answer me, did you? No, you didn't. Too wrapped up in your hideous imaginings, "this is HUGE issue and people can be killed from getting slammed into by another vehicle while trying to put it in park to restart it."

2) Don't drive the car until you have it resolved so you don't have to give us this breathless and pathetic hysteria about stalling in traffic (like who hasn't?). Don't drive the car at all if you can't think on your feet and not be a danger to others.

3) That means, don't drive the car until you have your stalling issue resolved. It is usually an easy thing to fix.
Colin Razz
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 03, 2018 6:23 pm    Post subject: Re: Neutral Safety Switch?? - URGENT Reply with quote

Seems rather straightforward to me Confused

As already mentioned resolve the dying issue, if that happened more than once to me it would be parked until the issue was located and dealt with, I can't tolerate shit like that from any vehicle.
Take the switch apart and clean it, then adjust as Colin suggests. Or continue driving a hazard, if all of this seems over your head try holding the key in the start position and moving the shifter slowly back and forth (avoid reaching park if rolling), you'll likely find that sweet spot where the starter suddenly jumps to life.
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 05, 2018 8:45 am    Post subject: Re: Neutral Safety Switch?? - URGENT Reply with quote

All good info but just to clarify to the OP: The wiper makes contact to start at two locations: P and N. As others have said, maybe just an adjustment is needed to get it to contact at N as well as P, or perhaps it is worn in such a way that it will not contact in N. The wiper does wear out. The part shown in SGKent's post is half of the switch (the half that didn't wear out on mine). The wiper also makes contact at R for the reverse lights, hence the 3 sets of contacts.
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 05, 2018 10:01 am    Post subject: Re: Neutral Safety Switch?? - URGENT Reply with quote

Sage79 has it right. The spring in the contact bridge or wiper wears out. And the gear shift lever in which it sits gets sloppy over time making the contact even less effective.

You can try to adjust and clean the contacts and it may work for a bit.

Just go an buy a new contact bridge. $12-15. Oh and the part# is for a Rabbit. All early water cooled VW autos used the same switch as did the Vanagon.
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 10, 2018 7:47 pm    Post subject: Re: Neutral Safety Switch?? - URGENT Reply with quote

Thanks for your support guys. I really appreciate it, but just wanted to keep each issue mutually exclusive.

In in Michigan, so it's cold -20 and snow so the bus is in the garage in storage until Spring and not on the rod.

I just got back in town (travel very often), so I'll have to check the reverse thing. However, I'm thinking now and wondering...if I'm having an issue with the switch not starting at all in neutral...since this switch can prevent starting and ignition...is there any possibility the two issues are in deed connected and once started causing contact issues and stlling??

I just ordered both the black and white contact parts from Bus Depot. They have always been great and in supplying the right parts. Since the bus is like 40YO+, I have no issues in outright replacing parts with brand new ones! Smile
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 10, 2018 8:40 pm    Post subject: Re: Neutral Safety Switch?? - URGENT Reply with quote

equinox wrote:
I'm thinking now and wondering...if I'm having an issue with the switch not starting at all in neutral...since this switch can prevent starting and ignition...is there any possibility the two issues are indeed connected and once started causing contact issues and stalling??

No. The switch is an interlock and only prevents the starter from operating. Once started, the switch has no effect on engine operation.

Notes:
- The switch is both starter interlock (50) and reverse light (15) switch. Ignore the reverse light section.
- As the interlock handles full starter relay current, I would suspect that it would suffer the same high current issues that the ignition switch does.

Details:
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

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PostPosted: Thu Jan 11, 2018 6:27 pm    Post subject: Re: Neutral Safety Switch?? - URGENT Reply with quote

"No. The switch is an interlock and only prevents the starter from operating. "

well, that sucks! however, it's good to know that you are actually supposed to be able to start the engine in a neutral position also.

I did have someone help me before I went to be last night. First we checked out my 2015 Silverado to see how it worked and the difference when put into the Reverse position. The white lights and reverse lights come on.

On the bus we tried it, and nothing happened! The reverse lights did not come on!
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 12, 2018 10:25 am    Post subject: Re: Neutral Safety Switch?? - URGENT Reply with quote

Actually, it doesn't suck, as now you know what isn't causing the stalling problem, and can now direct your efforts towards the real cause. Also, the reverse light issue virtually guarantees that the interlock switch is defective, as the same contact likely operates both the reverse lights and the starter interlock. Replacing the switch should fix both issues. Can't beat a 2 for 1 repair...
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 17, 2018 4:49 pm    Post subject: Re: Neutral Safety Switch?? - URGENT Reply with quote

Quote:
Can't beat a 2 for 1 repair


Nope. Sure can't. I'm looking forward to at least solving this issue soon! Thanks for your help and support!
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