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PostPosted: Mon Jan 15, 2018 12:20 pm    Post subject: Re: Ballistic missile attack on Hawaii Reply with quote

I'd rather have a human run the system, if we leave it up to the computers, SKYNET wins!
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 15, 2018 1:00 pm    Post subject: Re: Ballistic missile attack on Hawaii Reply with quote

Glenn wrote:
67ctbug wrote:
He pressed the MISSILE ATTACK BUTTON. H

Actually it was a option on a drop down menu on a PC. Maybe TEST and ATTACK should not be adjacent to each other.


Hey, I bet it was running on Windows, so of course it was buggy and had a sloppy UI.

Remember, these folks brought you the idea that to shut down, you begin by clicking "Start." And put FILE SAVE and FILE SAVE AS together so you can overwrite a file with a slightly mis-aimed click, with no recovery possible.
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 15, 2018 2:32 pm    Post subject: Re: Ballistic missile attack on Hawaii Reply with quote

TDCTDI wrote:
ROCKOROD71 wrote:
I know the conservatives in the room haven't cuz FAKE NEWZ MSM evil!!!111!!! but have any of you other folk watched the Last Week Tonight segment on the American nuclear cache? I think its arguably scarier than North Korea. At least North Korea is developing this stuff, now, and their system probably doesn't rely on 5" floppy disks from the early 80s, a brigade of Air Force regulars who are found asleep at the silo, broken comm infrastructure, etc etc.
That is to say nothing of the tons of nuclear waste that has no where to go and is being stored on site at all the power plants.
Man I bet Einstein is glad he's dead...
Essentially we are on the edge of nuclear disaster 24/7 with or without batshit world leaders with their fingers on the trigger.

I heard a piece one day & the person interviewed stated that because the system was so antiquated, that it wasn't "hackable" because of the lack of connection/compatibility to modern systems & that the 5" floppy discs had to be manually loaded eliminating an offsite threat.


Once again the point soars over your head. I would agree with you, but, can we like, upgrade to a 3" CD or GASP, a zip disc. You know you can erase one of those old floppy discs with a weak fridge magnet right?
To be clear, the system being "offline" isn't the issue.
Also, what about the wide open doors to the silos and military men sleeping on the job? That segment really was an eye-opener. Here's the link if anyone cares:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1Y1ya-yF35g
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 15, 2018 2:38 pm    Post subject: Re: Ballistic missile attack on Hawaii Reply with quote

KTPhil wrote:
Glenn wrote:
67ctbug wrote:
He pressed the MISSILE ATTACK BUTTON. H

Actually it was a option on a drop down menu on a PC. Maybe TEST and ATTACK should not be adjacent to each other.


Hey, I bet it was running on Windows, so of course it was buggy and had a sloppy UI.

Remember, these folks brought you the idea that to shut down, you begin by clicking "Start." And put FILE SAVE and FILE SAVE AS together so you can overwrite a file with a slightly mis-aimed click, with no recovery possible.


Either way, he hit the wrong button and should be more than reassigned.
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 15, 2018 3:03 pm    Post subject: Re: Ballistic missile attack on Hawaii Reply with quote

ROCKOROD71 wrote:
TDCTDI wrote:
ROCKOROD71 wrote:
I know the conservatives in the room haven't cuz FAKE NEWZ MSM evil!!!111!!! but have any of you other folk watched the Last Week Tonight segment on the American nuclear cache? I think its arguably scarier than North Korea. At least North Korea is developing this stuff, now, and their system probably doesn't rely on 5" floppy disks from the early 80s, a brigade of Air Force regulars who are found asleep at the silo, broken comm infrastructure, etc etc.
That is to say nothing of the tons of nuclear waste that has no where to go and is being stored on site at all the power plants.
Man I bet Einstein is glad he's dead...
Essentially we are on the edge of nuclear disaster 24/7 with or without batshit world leaders with their fingers on the trigger.

I heard a piece one day & the person interviewed stated that because the system was so antiquated, that it wasn't "hackable" because of the lack of connection/compatibility to modern systems & that the 5" floppy discs had to be manually loaded eliminating an offsite threat.


Once again the point soars over your head. I would agree with you, but, can we like, upgrade to a 3" CD or GASP, a zip disc. You know you can erase one of those old floppy discs with a weak fridge magnet right?
To be clear, the system being "offline" isn't the issue.


During my time working in ADP in the Navy, we never had any floppy disks erased with a magnet. Any type of digital media can be damaged, and your suggestion for using CDs is laughable. Why? CDs are susceptible to being easily scratched, plus they are not long lasting. Other advantage of 8" floppies: 1) they can be reused hundreds of times, and 2) the equipment available for reading them is difficult to find. This is the same reason why critics have been silenced by asking why the military doesn't use USB sticks for these systems. They are easily stolen and also easily copied. Not a very smart idea. Sometimes, old tech is best tech. I had a guy in a computer class laugh at me for suggesting magnetic tape as a reliable backup medium. He was dumbfounded when the instructor stated I was correct, as good, thick magnetic tape can last for decades. Zip disks?? Bad idea.

During my last year in the Navy, it was announced the Sextant would be no more. The service would rely on the use of satellites. I said that was stupid and foolish and was told I had a bad attitude for saying that. Besides, I was told "No one will ever be able to touch our satellites." Guess what happened in 2016? Sometimes, old tech is the best tech.

Quote:
Also, what about the wide open doors to the silos and military men sleeping on the job? That segment really was an eye-opener. Here's the link if anyone cares:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1Y1ya-yF35g


That's called a training issue and investigators noted it as such. Again, I performed a lot of watch standing on board ship. Co-workers were asking me these last few months why Navy ships have been involved in collisions. My response was a breakdown in proper training, but one know-it-all wanted to argue with me, stating there was probably more to it than that. Sure enough, the investigations have shown it to be a breakdown in proper training.
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 15, 2018 10:16 pm    Post subject: Re: Ballistic missile attack on Hawaii Reply with quote

KTPhil wrote:
Glenn wrote:
67ctbug wrote:
He pressed the MISSILE ATTACK BUTTON. H

Actually it was a option on a drop down menu on a PC. Maybe TEST and ATTACK should not be adjacent to each other.


Hey, I bet it was running on Windows, so of course it was buggy and had a sloppy UI.

Remember, these folks brought you the idea that to shut down, you begin by clicking "Start." And put FILE SAVE and FILE SAVE AS together so you can overwrite a file with a slightly mis-aimed click, with no recovery possible.

On the menus? I don't see an issue there. Why would you make tons of changes and then hit Save As to save it as a different file? You would be screwed if it auto-saved to that file too. This sounds like a training issue. Do Save As from the start or start by opening with a copy of the original.
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 16, 2018 6:32 am    Post subject: Re: Ballistic missile attack on Hawaii Reply with quote

Gary wrote:
ROCKOROD71 wrote:
TDCTDI wrote:
ROCKOROD71 wrote:
I know the conservatives in the room haven't cuz FAKE NEWZ MSM evil!!!111!!! but have any of you other folk watched the Last Week Tonight segment on the American nuclear cache? I think its arguably scarier than North Korea. At least North Korea is developing this stuff, now, and their system probably doesn't rely on 5" floppy disks from the early 80s, a brigade of Air Force regulars who are found asleep at the silo, broken comm infrastructure, etc etc.
That is to say nothing of the tons of nuclear waste that has no where to go and is being stored on site at all the power plants.
Man I bet Einstein is glad he's dead...
Essentially we are on the edge of nuclear disaster 24/7 with or without batshit world leaders with their fingers on the trigger.

I heard a piece one day & the person interviewed stated that because the system was so antiquated, that it wasn't "hackable" because of the lack of connection/compatibility to modern systems & that the 5" floppy discs had to be manually loaded eliminating an offsite threat.


Once again the point soars over your head. I would agree with you, but, can we like, upgrade to a 3" CD or GASP, a zip disc. You know you can erase one of those old floppy discs with a weak fridge magnet right?
To be clear, the system being "offline" isn't the issue.


During my time working in ADP in the Navy, we never had any floppy disks erased with a magnet. Any type of digital media can be damaged, and your suggestion for using CDs is laughable. Why? CDs are susceptible to being easily scratched, plus they are not long lasting. Other advantage of 8" floppies: 1) they can be reused hundreds of times, and 2) the equipment available for reading them is difficult to find. This is the same reason why critics have been silenced by asking why the military doesn't use USB sticks for these systems. They are easily stolen and also easily copied. Not a very smart idea. Sometimes, old tech is best tech. I had a guy in a computer class laugh at me for suggesting magnetic tape as a reliable backup medium. He was dumbfounded when the instructor stated I was correct, as good, thick magnetic tape can last for decades. Zip disks?? Bad idea.

During my last year in the Navy, it was announced the Sextant would be no more. The service would rely on the use of satellites. I said that was stupid and foolish and was told I had a bad attitude for saying that. Besides, I was told "No one will ever be able to touch our satellites." Guess what happened in 2016? Sometimes, old tech is the best tech.

Quote:
Also, what about the wide open doors to the silos and military men sleeping on the job? That segment really was an eye-opener. Here's the link if anyone cares:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1Y1ya-yF35g


That's called a training issue and investigators noted it as such. Again, I performed a lot of watch standing on board ship. Co-workers were asking me these last few months why Navy ships have been involved in collisions. My response was a breakdown in proper training, but one know-it-all wanted to argue with me, stating there was probably more to it than that. Sure enough, the investigations have shown it to be a breakdown in proper training.


I guess the perfect compromise is Mini Disc then! Laughing Mine still work, and I show it to people and it's like I just pulled out the Hope diamond. No chance at scratching, can be used over and over, can't be erased with a magnet.
I think it was after the 2nd, maybe the third naval collision recently, NPR had a retired Navy admiral or something on the show, and he said as much about the training. Something to the effect of back in his day, blah blah blah years, and now, blah blah blah months. Interesting about the navigation via the stars, one would think they'd never stop teaching that in case of failures. I learned that stuff before I was a teenager! I bet "training issues" don't happen in Russia or China...or you just never hear about them or see the people with the "issues" ever again...
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79SuperVert wrote:

30 years from now, the next guy may not want your girlfriend, but he may want your classic car, depending on how nice you were to it.


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Careful guys, a petulant child can grow up to be president these days.


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 16, 2018 11:48 am    Post subject: Re: Ballistic missile attack on Hawaii Reply with quote

Gary wrote:
Sometimes, old tech is best tech.

Right on, man!

I mean, isn't that why we like to drive 50 year-old cars with analog gauges and cable operated carburetors and clutches, that you have to turn an actual key to start the engine?

GPS to navigate by? Sure, I keep a couple of those in the glove box. They're called maps.
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 16, 2018 12:06 pm    Post subject: Re: Ballistic missile attack on Hawaii Reply with quote

EverettB wrote:
On the menus? I don't see an issue there. Why would you make tons of changes and then hit Save As to save it as a different file? You would be screwed if it auto-saved to that file too. This sounds like a training issue. Do Save As from the start or start by opening with a copy of the original.


If you watch how most people use Office, they leave themselves open to catastrophe.

Like you suggest, I have learned (the hard way) to open, then immediately "Save As..." in order to leave my original file untouched as a backup. Our networks (to say nothing of Windows) go down all the time and I HATE doing work over again! And AutoSave has screwed me, too, until I caught on.

But most people don't think about it until they get victimized... they open the original file, start editing, then hit "Save As" only as they are ready to quit. It's human nature.

The Microsoft answer is to demand the user behave differently, but an enlightened approach is to recognize human behavior, and accommodate it or "poka yoke" it in order to avoid mistakes.

Microsoft blaming the USER because YOUR software did not recognize normal human nature is a coding failure, not a user failure. It's the hallmark of a faulty UI.
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 16, 2018 12:08 pm    Post subject: Re: Ballistic missile attack on Hawaii Reply with quote

Floating VW wrote:
Gary wrote:
Sometimes, old tech is best tech.

Right on, man!

I mean, isn't that why we like to drive 50 year-old cars with analog gauges and cable operated carburetors and clutches, that you have to turn an actual key to start the engine?.


Gauges? We don't need no stinkin' gauges!

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PostPosted: Wed Jan 17, 2018 4:21 am    Post subject: Re: Ballistic missile attack on Hawaii Reply with quote

I find it ridiculous that people will hide from a nuclear blast. Your body will go from solid to gas in a second. Then if you happen to survive that, radiation exposure will kill you over the next few hours.

Unless you are 200 feet underground, that might save your ass...for a little bit.

I will take front row seat w/ a Corona and pork ribs. Laughing
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 17, 2018 11:23 am    Post subject: Re: Ballistic missile attack on Hawaii Reply with quote

nsracing wrote:
I find it ridiculous that people will hide from a nuclear blast. Your body will go from solid to gas in a second. Then if you happen to survive that, radiation exposure will kill you over the next few hours.

Unless you are 200 feet underground, that might save your ass...for a little bit.

I will take front row seat w/ a Corona and pork ribs. Laughing

Yup, I wanna be on of those that leave a silhouette on the wall, preferably in an awkward position with a lass with the same opinion. Twisted Evil
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 17, 2018 11:50 am    Post subject: Re: Ballistic missile attack on Hawaii Reply with quote

TDCTDI wrote:
nsracing wrote:
I find it ridiculous that people will hide from a nuclear blast. Your body will go from solid to gas in a second. Then if you happen to survive that, radiation exposure will kill you over the next few hours.

Unless you are 200 feet underground, that might save your ass...for a little bit.

I will take front row seat w/ a Corona and pork ribs. Laughing

Yup, I wanna be on of those that leave a silhouette on the wall, preferably in an awkward position with a lass with the same opinion. Twisted Evil

Make sure you are holding a 2ft salami in your hands, that way when the future looks back, they can say men had at least one thing going for them. Laughing
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 17, 2018 9:50 pm    Post subject: Re: Ballistic missile attack on Hawaii Reply with quote

Japan had a similar false alert 2 days later. Seems strange over all. 38 minutes to issue a correction? Plenty of time to order a pizza I guess.
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 18, 2018 6:48 am    Post subject: Re: Ballistic missile attack on Hawaii Reply with quote

Recently watched that Twilight Zone where there was a false alarm on a nuclear attack. One family had a bomb shelter and the entire neighborhood went nuts trying to get in - eventually breaking down the door to get in.....

Wonder how much of that happened....and seriously, was maybe a good thing this happened in a way....I am sure that a LOT of people are reviewing their systems and processes. Just hoping nobody got hurt over this.
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 18, 2018 9:06 am    Post subject: Re: Ballistic missile attack on Hawaii Reply with quote

Noticed that PornHubs traffic dropped sharply during the crisis, but rebounded nicely shortly after it was called.

Gotta love science.

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PostPosted: Thu Jan 18, 2018 2:31 pm    Post subject: Re: Ballistic missile attack on Hawaii Reply with quote

EverettB wrote:
Moderator note:
We were getting into some political comments, they were removed


I didn't happen to see the comments before they were removed so my question to EverettB is; Do you think a political reason for someone doing this can be ruled out?
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 18, 2018 3:37 pm    Post subject: Re: Ballistic missile attack on Hawaii Reply with quote

andk5591 wrote:
Recently watched that Twilight Zone where there was a false alarm on a nuclear attack. One family had a bomb shelter and the entire neighborhood went nuts trying to get in - eventually breaking down the door to get in.....

Wonder how much of that happened....and seriously, was maybe a good thing this happened in a way....I am sure that a LOT of people are reviewing their systems and processes. Just hoping nobody got hurt over this.


Now they know how crazy and unprepared their neighbors are.
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 18, 2018 8:09 pm    Post subject: Re: Ballistic missile attack on Hawaii Reply with quote

andk5591 wrote:
Recently watched that Twilight Zone where there was a false alarm on a nuclear attack. One family had a bomb shelter and the entire neighborhood went nuts trying to get in - eventually breaking down the door to get in.....

Wonder how much of that happened....and seriously, was maybe a good thing this happened in a way....I am sure that a LOT of people are reviewing their systems and processes. Just hoping nobody got hurt over this.


My Lovely wife did a research study in college on how several groups of people will function under pressure, unfortunately it didn't turn out well, as the bulk of the study group came un-glued during the study. For the most part, a large of part of the population can't handle or deal with pressure it when it gets real. This time the Hawaii incident was a human mistake, but it shows how complacent our society has become over the years, we really are not ready for the day when it gets serious.
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 18, 2018 9:16 pm    Post subject: Re: Ballistic missile attack on Hawaii Reply with quote

I did not see the political comments but was curious if they got removed because they were not politically correct? Laughing
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