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56samba
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 24, 2017 12:35 am    Post subject: Okrasa distributors Reply with quote

Hi there,

hope this isn't a question that was solved earlier in this forum...

I'm planning to build a May 1954 Okrasa engine and asking myself, which distributor would be correct?
Sure, most of the Okrasa engines were built laterly and Okrasa engines built in 54 must be really rare as most of the builds were done after the people thought their bug is too slow after driving it a few years.

I forgot the correct introduction date, but I think the Bosch 010 dizzy was released in the very late 50's? Same with the 019?

Stock May 54 cars would have the BR3 dizzy, but it always has a vacuum support or am I wrong? In an Okrasa manual from the 50's I read: "change your Bosch ZV/JUR 4 R for a VJUR 4 BR8!"
Does it mean late 50's Okrasa engines had the BR8 dizzy from a bus as they had the mechanical advance without vacuum support?
But in early 54, the BR8 wasn't already introduced...

I'm not a dizzy expert, but I guess the only available dizzies were the BRS383 as used in this period on Porsche 356 engines and the stock BR3 distributor...maybe with a removed vacuum support?

Any help is highly appreciated!

Thanks and best regards,
Jan
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Glenn Premium Member
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 24, 2017 6:45 am    Post subject: Re: Okrasa distributors Reply with quote

The VJ4BR25(010) came out in later 59. The VJ4BR8(019) came out in 55.

I would use a 383 which is mechanical only. It was used on VWs 1949 to December 1953. It was also used on Porsche 356 to late 1955.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

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56samba
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 24, 2017 8:17 am    Post subject: Re: Okrasa distributors Reply with quote

Glenn wrote:
The VJ4BR25(010) came out in later 59. The VJ4BR8(019) came out in 55.

I would use a 383 which is mechanical only. It was used on VWs 1949 to December 1953. It was also used on Porsche 356 to late 1955.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Thanks for the information, Glenn!

Fortunely I got some of the 383 dizzies laying around.

Would be great, if someone has a picture of a very early Okrasa motor and could share it with us!
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tasb
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 24, 2017 10:09 am    Post subject: Re: Okrasa distributors Reply with quote

I agree with Glenn, since the BRS 383 would be easier to come by and technically correct. The pic below would be the correct distributor for May 1954 VW bus VJ 4 BR 3 T:

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Either one, being mechanical advance only distributors would be ideally suited to an early Okrasa engine.

The BR 3 has a similar advance curve to the 0 231 129 019. The "010" and "019" badged distributors did not arrive on the scene until the middle of the 1960's and would not be correct badges for your project.

There is an early BRS 383 badge and a later version. The picture that Glenn provided is correct. You will want the earlier version for a 1954 build. Here is an image of the later badge used on Porsche.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


The later badges may or may not come with the "R"on the badge. The "R" in VER simply indicates that the distributor originally came with a resistor built into the rotor.
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Last edited by tasb on Fri Nov 24, 2017 8:36 pm; edited 1 time in total
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 24, 2017 10:36 am    Post subject: Re: Okrasa distributors Reply with quote

The catalogue suggests that you install one of these distributors:

VJU 4 BR 3T
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Which has vacuum advance in addition to the mechanical advance. There must be a provision for vacuum advance at the carburetor(s).

Here is a very early VJU 4 BR 8 which began use in September 1954:

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

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PostPosted: Fri Nov 24, 2017 10:41 am    Post subject: Re: Okrasa distributors Reply with quote

...and finally in any case, you would be looking for a distributor with a date stamp as close to "5K" as you can find.
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 24, 2017 12:30 pm    Post subject: Re: Okrasa distributors Reply with quote

A VJ4BR3T would also be correct, but near impossible to find.

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PostPosted: Fri Nov 24, 2017 1:59 pm    Post subject: Re: Okrasa distributors Reply with quote

Glenn wrote:
A VJ4BR3T would also be correct, but near impossible to find.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Thanks for the information guys, that really helps me!
Glenn, this VJ4BR3T must be a unicorn find! Was this equipped on early 54 Barndoors? Or maybe only for specially delivered BDs like for the post service or police? Someone offered me a BR20 distributor, I heard this one was also used by the German Post.

In a manual that is definitely printed after 55, you can see the drawing of an Okrasa engine with a dizzy that has an vacuum support.

I got an April BR3 (my 25€ purchase this spring!), maybe I'll use this one.


Anyway, many thanks for your help!!! Very Happy
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tasb
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 24, 2017 8:58 pm    Post subject: Re: Okrasa distributors Reply with quote

The VJ 4 BR 3 is rare but not exactly unicorn level. I have three and have restored four others. This distributor would have been standard equipment on all Barndoors from February, to @ the end of July 1954.

Even rarer is the VJ 4 BR 2 from which lasted only one month from December 1953 until January 1954. There weren't a lot of buses produced during December 1953. There was a companion VJU 4 BR 2 with vacuum advance for the Beetle for the same short span.

Finally there is a VE 4 BRS 383 manufactured from late September until mid October 1953 that had an internal mounted condensor much like the big cap 40 hp distributors. That was a 23 day production run. After sixty four years of continuous attrition THAT is a real unicorn.
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.



I am going off of memory, but I believe the VJ 4 BR 20 was a distributor for the Goliath truck which very likely would have been used with the Bundesposte. It does not have an advance curve appropriate for a VW and probably not Okarasa.

The badges for the time period you are looking at were typically not silver and black but dull in appearance. When they are cleaned for restoration they come out a shiny silver.
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 17, 2018 1:54 pm    Post subject: Re: Okrasa distributors Reply with quote

I'm building an original Okrasa engine for my '56 Ghia. I was thinking of using a 010, but this thread makes it clear that it would not be correct, so I have this old cruddy VJR4BR8 which is think is closer to the date of the original engine and has the same curve as an 019. Just want to make sure that it would be the one to use before I send it in to be restored.
Also, will I get the same performance out of this distributer as I would an 010?
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 17, 2018 2:06 pm    Post subject: Re: Okrasa distributors Reply with quote

Braukuche wrote:
I'm building an original Okrasa engine for my '56 Ghia. I was thinking of using a 010, but this thread makes it clear that it would not be correct, so I have this old cruddy VJR4BR8 which is think is closer to the date of the original engine and has the same curve as an 019. Just want to make sure that it would be the one to use before I send it in to be restored.
Also, will I get the same performance out of this distributer as I would an 010?

No... the VJ4BR25 is the same as the 010. The VJ4BR8/019 has the curve come at a lower rpm than the VJ4BR25/010.

I'd "guess" that that engine originally had a 383.
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56samba
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 18, 2018 8:56 am    Post subject: Re: Okrasa distributors Reply with quote

Good to see some progress here, I think this could become a topic, that helps many people out, that also plan to build an early Okrasa engine and want to pay attention for the details.
I changed plans to build a 54 Okrasa engine, maybe later Wink
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motofly196
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 27, 2018 10:34 am    Post subject: Re: Okrasa distributors Reply with quote

I too have thought about this for an early Okrasa engine, but in reality...how many people would of installed this kit early on in their beetle's life? I would think it would be possible that maybe a car was 2 or more years old before someone would think of installing something like that. Maybe a few adventerous folks would install it right away, but most cars probably received the kit later on. I like the Blue Screamer 019's, and that's what I'm putting on mine. Correct or not, doesn't matter to me!
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 27, 2018 10:52 am    Post subject: Re: Okrasa distributors Reply with quote

motofly196 wrote:
I too have thought about this for an early Okrasa engine, but in reality...how many people would of installed this kit early on in their beetle's life? I would think it would be possible that maybe a car was 2 or more years old before someone would think of installing something like that. Maybe a few adventerous folks would install it right away, but most cars probably received the kit later on. I like the Blue Screamer 019's, and that's what I'm putting on mine. Correct or not, doesn't matter to me!


I think I will run an 010 since neither would be Year correct may as well go for the better of the two.
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