nice wright up on coated bearings.

[mark tucker]

this isant the same thing I use but still very good info for the naysayses that say it dosent work,isant for street,too expensive and all the other lame exscuses that they spit out of thier all knowing mouths....hope this link works.if not, just type it in.or part of it... http://www.dragzine.com/tech-stories/engine/polyme...ehind-them

[ps2375]

interesting. Does that apply to all coatings or those specific coatings?

[jpaull]

It would be interesting to see these bearings after even 20,000 miles of hard driving and see how much of the coating is left.

They show the test below quoting 10k PSI for 24 hours, and even the super cool advertised bearing has some of the coating wiped away. But how about real world driving?

All of their reasons for doing it are great ones, the big question is how long before the coating disappears.

From their article:

That's cool your always comparing notes with non vw hi po technology Mark, they spend abit more money then the majority of VW guys so its good to peek at what there doing.
_________________
[email protected] MPH 1/4 Mile & 8.1 @ 83.7MPH in 1/8 Mile with Mild Type 1 VW Mag Case 2234cc commuter engine in stock weight bug w/only .491 total lift(CB2292 Cam), 42x37 heads, 48idf's, Street tires, Belt on, Mufflers, Pump gas, video of the run here: https://youtu.be/M3SPqMOKAOg

Transmission by MCMScott:
Rhino case, Klinkenberg 4.12, Superdiff, 002 mainshaft with 091 first idler. Weddle 1.48 Third & 1.14 Fourth.

[raygreenwood]

So...you know that crazy bearing grade plastic I have been suggesting for all kinds of uses on our cars and engines for years now?....and all the "its not metal so it sucks"...people all roll their eyes and move to the next page?...that plastic?

Its trade name is Torlon....and guess what....its chemical name is Polyamide-Imide.....same exact polymer these bearings are coated with....if you read the article

These should be damn fine! Its not new....just getting popular. In the aerospace industry...thousands of parts have been made of or coated with Torlon/polyamide-imide.

In the dictionary should be a heading of absolutely bad-ass plastics...with Torlon and Vespel underneath them.

Torlon is good to right above 600 F constant. Chemically inert to anything up to and including nitric acid....harder than many common extruded aluminum alloys in a drop/indentation test. Marginally higher coefficient of friction than teflon (meaning just slightly less slick). One of the hardest plastics out there.

Yeah...I would think those are just nifty!

The point is not about whether the plastic scuffs off. Its supposed to to some extent....depending on which bearing version. The plastic/polymer while being very hard and slick...is NOT the bearing surface. Its only a couple of microns deep (25.4 microns in .001"). Its thickness is probably .0001" or less...thats 2.54 microns or less.

Its object is to be slick enough and hard enough to survive nearly oil pressure free moments when the journal makes contact with a non-pressurized oil film...and to be a sacrificial/ablative film when the journal occasionally squeezes out all of the oil and makes surface to surface contact.

The object in that case is for the polymer film to get scuffed away instead of the bearing metal. Ray

[ps2375]

I take it, this type of coating is not something a hobbyist/builder is going to be applying at home or in the shop.

[raygreenwood]

[vwracerdave]

I use the Techline DFL coating on all my bearings. Clean & prepare the part, spray it on with a cheap harbor Freight airbrush, then bake it 300* in a $10 garage sale toaster oven.
_________________
2017 Street Comp Champion - Thunder Valley Raceway Park - Noble, OK
2010 Sportsman ET Champion - Mid-America Dragway - Arkansas City, KS
1997 Sportsman ET Champion - Thunder Valley Raceway Park - Noble ,OK

[mark tucker]

I use the sams as dave and have for...a fricken long time. my 2028 is 10 years old...and the mains in it were in my 2332 as was some other parts. for about 35000miles. all the bearings looked like I had never put them in a engine.they went to a diferent case and on a diferent crank.after 2 years I split it to fix a oil seep at the sump, they all looked like they had never been used. yes this shit works.I coat almost everything in the engine.

[esde]

Mark used a link!

Interesting that the thickness of the coating is taken into account during production, so that final oil clearance is unchanged. Perhaps that means it is not easily adapted to an existing bearing? Or, maybe in time this will lead to a coating that could be applied in the aftermarket, much like the Techline DFL?
SD
_________________
modok wrote:
Bent cranks are silent but gather no moss. I mean, ah, something like that.

[Ebel]

Unfortunately polyamide is also one of the really expensive plastics. Or at least it was last I used it.

[Cptn. Calzone]

yes but how expensive versus an engine failure?People spend away on performance etc and often overlook friction reduction and balancing that is "free HP"or keeping more of whats available. Racing vintage MX years ago we would coat the entire trans with a baked on friction reducer.The result? smoth as butter shifts from the old dinosaur tech and more available hp that was not one bit a trade off in reliability
_________________
71 westfalia
67 912 Porsche Quintilla
67 Single Cab aka my work horse

[Pat D]

I have ran the same King main and rod bearings in my Pro Stock for 3 seasons. They were coated by Calico coatings. Every time I service the engine, the bearings look brand new. Engine never see's anything less than 8200 rpm. It helps to have a good oil system in place also
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Pat, Im too fast slow me downs!

[jpaull]

[mark tucker]

[fivelugshortaxle]

Where's a good place to buy all of the equipment needed to do dfl coatings? I think I'd like to try this on the 2276 build after the 2332 is up and running. From what I've read so far, you use 120 grit aluminum oxide and can use a simple airbrush to blast the parts. How much pressure do you use? How much of a sweep over the parts when you blast with the aluminum oxide?
_________________
Good things come to those who wait.
2332 with lots of goodies....
Rotating assembly balanced by Brothers VW
4340 84mm crank
AA 94mm p&c' s
Total seal 2nd ring, rest are Grants
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Magnum straight cuts
Steve Long XR310 on a 106
CB 1.4 rockers
CB Magnaspark 2 distributor
NGK D7ea plugs
A1 lowdown 1 3/4 with single muffler
Dellorto 48's with 40 venturies
Kennedy Stage 2 with Daiken disc

[Ebel]

I didnt mean it was too expensive for coating bearings just too expensive for me to play with the extra material at my work. I was told I could play with the other stuff but had to leave that alone.

[ps2375]

So, media blasting your bearings with 120 grit media was an easy thing to do? I get shiver every time I consider it.

[74 Thing]

Dave indicated that he scotchbrited the bearing then used and airbrush to spray it on and then baked it in the toaster oven and then lightly scotchbrited it before install.

Dave and Mark can provide more insight on the process I am sure.

[raygreenwood]

[Ebel]

I think I remember being told it was 100$ an inch for 1" diameter. But that was years ago and I might be thinking of something else. Or it could have been to scare me into not wasting any.