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SamboSamba22
Samba Member
Joined: August 06, 2015
Posts: 2772
Location: Benton, Arkansas
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 Posted: Fri Jan 12, 2018 8:59 pm Post subject: Re: River Bank Survivor (59 Single Cab) |
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Not quite the video we all enjoy, but a tease photografica, the first official fill up at the Gas N Go down the street from the house.
Good things discovered? Brakes work, along with some thumbs up along the way to the gas station.
Negatives? Still have wonky starting with the new Bosch Starter, acts like it doesn’t have good ground or it doesn’t like the flywheel. Especially when the motor gets warm.
Ended up pulling both relief valves, cleaned up, polished and greased. Oil change with sealing up the strainer and valve covers.
Weird the new oil pressure switch doesn’t give a reading. Attach the test light to the lead wire from the idiot light, and ground the test light to the housing of the oil switch I get a light, touch the spade of the switch itself with the light, no dice...the old switch did this as well. Thoughts? Will a bad bulb cause any issues or any bulbs missing in the speedo cause any issues?
I’m in need of a new distributor clamp, my current unit isn’t holding the unit tight in place, I haven’t noticed it moving but of course I don’t have eyes on it driving around.
I can’t determine if today was productive or not. I did some things, drove the truck around about 10 miles, guess that counts as something.
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The Bus Barn Ltd. Co.
Oct. ’67 Double Cab (’68 Crew Cab)
[url=http://www.vw-mplate.com/mplate-44412.png]Click to view image[/URL]
March '69 Delivery (Panel Bus)
[url=http://www.vw-mplate.com/mplate-44414.png]Click to view image[/URL] |
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SamboSamba22
Samba Member
Joined: August 06, 2015
Posts: 2772
Location: Benton, Arkansas
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| Posted: Sat Jan 20, 2018 8:20 am Post subject: Re: River Bank Survivor (59 Single Cab) |
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Took time yesterday to change out some components on the engine, leaky intake boots, a frayed spark plug wire, a non-tightening distributor clamp, and the charging issue.
All was well, also got my gadgets out to time and tune the PICT 34, which is now idling well at around 900 rpms.
Got around to driving close by the house, the truck and seeing how the pick up was, the gear shifting, braking, etc..
I'm pretty sure 3rd gear is toast, unfortunately I believe this is, though I haven't gotten around to adjusting the shift plate to see if I'm too far over on the driver side. 1st and 2nd are butter.
Upon finally getting the rpm's going, the generator light began to flicker! Is there hope??
And wouldn't you know, after some intermittent of on/off, it goes off! Okay, awesome, what about under load? So I kick on the lights, and bam! Nothing, the light stays off.
So now I'm thinking this is great, I don't have to drop the motor to remove the generator! And wouldn't you know, ten minutes later of driving, it stalls!!!
On the side of the road, sure enough, the battery was drained, and indeed the charging system isn't functioning, though I had begun at 12.4 at the battery, checked it to be 12.7v, when on the side of the road, it was down again to 12.2
What the hell is this generator doing?! Do you want to work or not?!?
At any rate, it can't win them all. Happy to have made the progression that I did. Installed the speedo cable that came in, easy enough.
Made one lap, with no speedometer, hmmm. Pop the hubcap off, the tip with the circlip was ripped off the wire, apparently I didn't do something right.
Glamour shot for the day, and all the work thus far, sure makes me smile, a proud moment almost a year in.
I learned earlier this week, this truck has been off the road for almost half a century! Time flies, huh?!?
FWIW, I ran across a thread discussing spark plug wires for our VW's, and purchased these for $38 from my local NAPA, as you can see it had the little seal/boot on the bottom portion of the shaft of the wire. Made in Germany (Beru)
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The Bus Barn Ltd. Co.
Oct. ’67 Double Cab (’68 Crew Cab)
[url=http://www.vw-mplate.com/mplate-44412.png]Click to view image[/URL]
March '69 Delivery (Panel Bus)
[url=http://www.vw-mplate.com/mplate-44414.png]Click to view image[/URL] |
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BarryL 
Samba Member
Joined: November 01, 2004
Posts: 14258
Location: Casa de Oro, California
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| Posted: Sat Jan 20, 2018 11:45 am Post subject: Re: River Bank Survivor (59 Single Cab) |
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| Carefully try pushing in your brushes while it's running. You can use a stick. You aren't associating the 12.2 volts with it stalling, are you? |
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cdennisg
Samba Member
Joined: November 02, 2004
Posts: 20271
Location: Sandpoint, ID
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| Posted: Sat Jan 20, 2018 11:54 am Post subject: Re: River Bank Survivor (59 Single Cab) |
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| BarryL wrote: |
| Carefully try pushing in your brushes while it's running. You can use a stick. You aren't associating the 12.2 volts with it stalling, are you? |
Definitely try this.
When the dash light went out, did you check for battery voltage to see if it was actually being charged? With the engine revved up a little (maybe 1500-1800 RPM) you should see 13.2-13.5 volts or thereabouts. If you get the same reading while the engine is running that you get while it is off, your charging system is doing nothing.
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SamboSamba22
Samba Member
Joined: August 06, 2015
Posts: 2772
Location: Benton, Arkansas
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SamboSamba22
Samba Member
Joined: August 06, 2015
Posts: 2772
Location: Benton, Arkansas
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| Posted: Sat Jan 20, 2018 1:03 pm Post subject: Re: River Bank Survivor (59 Single Cab) |
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| cdennisg wrote: |
| BarryL wrote: |
| Carefully try pushing in your brushes while it's running. You can use a stick. You aren't associating the 12.2 volts with it stalling, are you? |
Definitely try this.
When the dash light went out, did you check for battery voltage to see if it was actually being charged? With the engine revved up a little (maybe 1500-1800 RPM) you should see 13.2-13.5 volts or thereabouts. If you get the same reading while the engine is running that you get while it is off, your charging system is doing nothing. |
I didn’t validate the voltage on the battery when it was running, though it is seeming that the system is attempting to charge, intermittently.
Still lacking a turn signal switch, oil light.
_________________
The Bus Barn Ltd. Co.
Oct. ’67 Double Cab (’68 Crew Cab)
[url=http://www.vw-mplate.com/mplate-44412.png]Click to view image[/URL]
March '69 Delivery (Panel Bus)
[url=http://www.vw-mplate.com/mplate-44414.png]Click to view image[/URL] |
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BarryL
Samba Member
Joined: November 01, 2004
Posts: 14258
Location: Casa de Oro, California
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| Posted: Sat Jan 20, 2018 7:07 pm Post subject: Re: River Bank Survivor (59 Single Cab) |
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| SamboSamba22 wrote: |
| BarryL wrote: |
| You aren't associating the 12.2 volts with it stalling, are you? |
Well, yes i am. If the system isn’t charging, and is simply being powered by the battery, once it gets so low, it dies and that’s it. No? |
12.2 is not low. It might even still run at 9 volts if all you had going was the coil. |
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SamboSamba22
Samba Member
Joined: August 06, 2015
Posts: 2772
Location: Benton, Arkansas
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| Posted: Sat Jan 20, 2018 7:22 pm Post subject: Re: River Bank Survivor (59 Single Cab) |
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| BarryL wrote: |
| SamboSamba22 wrote: |
| BarryL wrote: |
| You aren't associating the 12.2 volts with it stalling, are you? |
Well, yes i am. If the system isn’t charging, and is simply being powered by the battery, once it gets so low, it dies and that’s it. No? |
12.2 is not low. It might even still run at 9 volts if all you had going was the coil. |
Well, thoughts on why it would crank fine, run great, then stale and not fire back up?
I ended up rolling it down the hill and popping the clutch, ran just fine back to the house.
_________________
The Bus Barn Ltd. Co.
Oct. ’67 Double Cab (’68 Crew Cab)
[url=http://www.vw-mplate.com/mplate-44412.png]Click to view image[/URL]
March '69 Delivery (Panel Bus)
[url=http://www.vw-mplate.com/mplate-44414.png]Click to view image[/URL] |
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cdennisg
Samba Member
Joined: November 02, 2004
Posts: 20271
Location: Sandpoint, ID
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| Posted: Sat Jan 20, 2018 8:33 pm Post subject: Re: River Bank Survivor (59 Single Cab) |
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| SamboSamba22 wrote: |
| BarryL wrote: |
| SamboSamba22 wrote: |
| BarryL wrote: |
| You aren't associating the 12.2 volts with it stalling, are you? |
Well, yes i am. If the system isn’t charging, and is simply being powered by the battery, once it gets so low, it dies and that’s it. No? |
12.2 is not low. It might even still run at 9 volts if all you had going was the coil. |
Well, thoughts on why it would crank fine, run great, then stale and not fire back up?
I ended up rolling it down the hill and popping the clutch, ran just fine back to the house. |
Lots of things could cause that issue. Maybe you still have some needle valve issues?
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SamboSamba22
Samba Member
Joined: August 06, 2015
Posts: 2772
Location: Benton, Arkansas
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cdennisg
Samba Member
Joined: November 02, 2004
Posts: 20271
Location: Sandpoint, ID
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| Posted: Sat Jan 20, 2018 8:54 pm Post subject: Re: River Bank Survivor (59 Single Cab) |
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| SamboSamba22 wrote: |
| I’m leaning more so to electrical woes. Carb runs beautifully. Idled once back home from clutch pop nice and smooth. |
A sticking needle valve can be very random. It can also stick partially, so the bowl fills very slowly. It will run great till the bowl empties, sputter to a stall. Then start right up after a short time of the bowl slowly filling. Running at idle does not use enough fuel to empty the bowl before the slow-filling needle valve refills it.
Not to simplify too much, but I have a shitty back-up lawn mower that does exactly this. If I can keep it cutting without too much load, the needle valve keeps up. If I try to power through the tough stuff, the extra load drains the float bowl and it dies. If I wait 30 seconds, the bowl fills, and it fires right up again.
When your truck (looking great, BTW) stalled, did it die suddenly, like you shut of the switch? Or did it putter and spit a little before it quit?
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SamboSamba22
Samba Member
Joined: August 06, 2015
Posts: 2772
Location: Benton, Arkansas
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| Posted: Sun Jan 21, 2018 5:55 am Post subject: Re: River Bank Survivor (59 Single Cab) |
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| cdennisg wrote: |
| SamboSamba22 wrote: |
| I’m leaning more so to electrical woes. Carb runs beautifully. Idled once back home from clutch pop nice and smooth. |
A sticking needle valve can be very random. It can also stick partially, so the bowl fills very slowly. It will run great till the bowl empties, sputter to a stall. Then start right up after a short time of the bowl slowly filling. Running at idle does not use enough fuel to empty the bowl before the slow-filling needle valve refills it.
Not to simplify too much, but I have a shitty back-up lawn mower that does exactly this. If I can keep it cutting without too much load, the needle valve keeps up. If I try to power through the tough stuff, the extra load drains the float bowl and it dies. If I wait 30 seconds, the bowl fills, and it fires right up again.
When your truck (looking great, BTW) stalled, did it die suddenly, like you shut of the switch? Or did it putter and spit a little before it quit? |
It was more of the latter, some spattering and died. Kinda as if it ran out of gas in a sense.
_________________
The Bus Barn Ltd. Co.
Oct. ’67 Double Cab (’68 Crew Cab)
[url=http://www.vw-mplate.com/mplate-44412.png]Click to view image[/URL]
March '69 Delivery (Panel Bus)
[url=http://www.vw-mplate.com/mplate-44414.png]Click to view image[/URL] |
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cdennisg
Samba Member
Joined: November 02, 2004
Posts: 20271
Location: Sandpoint, ID
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| Posted: Sun Jan 21, 2018 11:14 am Post subject: Re: River Bank Survivor (59 Single Cab) |
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| SamboSamba22 wrote: |
It was more of the latter, some spattering and died. Kinda as if it ran out of gas in a sense. |
That type of stalling would tend to lead me toward a fuel issue. Though a bad coil or condenser may cause similar symptoms, fuel delivery would be my first suspect.
Next time it dies like that, try tapping on the side of the float bowl, gentle but firm, with the plastic or wood handle of a screwdriver. This is an attempt to loosen a stuck float needle. If it fires right up after a few seconds, then the float bowl filled back up when the needle unstuck.
Or, to really find out if that needle is sticking shut, clamp the fuel line, quickly, right after it dies. Then either open the float bowl drain (careful, keep a rag under it to catch any fuel) or remove the carb entirely to check what's in there. If that bowl is empty, then fuel delivery is definitely the issue.
Clamping that fuel line (right by the carb) will allow you time to let the engine cool before the next step. Safety is paramount, as this issue won't mean shit if you get burned and can't enjoy your truck.
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Spike0180
Samba Member
Joined: June 06, 2015
Posts: 2269
Location: Detroit, Michigan
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| Posted: Mon Jan 22, 2018 12:14 pm Post subject: Re: River Bank Survivor (59 Single Cab) |
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| SamboSamba22 wrote: |
| BarryL wrote: |
| SamboSamba22 wrote: |
| BarryL wrote: |
| You aren't associating the 12.2 volts with it stalling, are you? |
Well, yes i am. If the system isn’t charging, and is simply being powered by the battery, once it gets so low, it dies and that’s it. No? |
12.2 is not low. It might even still run at 9 volts if all you had going was the coil. |
Well, thoughts on why it would crank fine, run great, then stale and not fire back up?
I ended up rolling it down the hill and popping the clutch, ran just fine back to the house. |
If you were able to push start it, then it had enough battery to run the bus and therefore your charging system not working/partially working was not the cause of your bus stalling. I think the idea of fuel is likely, though if you felt it was electrical I would just make sure all your electrical connections are clean and tight. If they are, then move on to fuel.
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Brutis Patches Izabich: 1970 VW Transporter - 1776cc DP
Current State: Projects never truly end...
Location: Grosse Pointe, Michigan
Other cars: 2003 F150, 2003 Jetta GLI vr6-6sp
Sambastic: adj; the quality of being nit picky, elitist, expecting everyone to do things the way they believe is best with no regard to situation, "sambastic" |
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Fifty-Eight Rag
Samba Member
Joined: September 07, 2011
Posts: 936
Location: St. Louis, MO
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| Posted: Mon Jan 22, 2018 12:27 pm Post subject: Re: River Bank Survivor (59 Single Cab) |
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| BarryL wrote: |
| SamboSamba22 wrote: |
| BarryL wrote: |
| You aren't associating the 12.2 volts with it stalling, are you? |
Well, yes i am. If the system isn’t charging, and is simply being powered by the battery, once it gets so low, it dies and that’s it. No? |
12.2 is not low. It might even still run at 9 volts if all you had going was the coil. |
I agree.
A lot of American cars in the 50s/60s would run 12V systems and reduce the coil input voltage through a ballast resistor to keep the points from failing prematurely. This reduced the voltage to the + side of the coil to 6-8V. A coil is fully capable of ramping up output voltage to the plugs at 20K+ volts.
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1956 Oval
and a barn full of VW parts
1956 Oval build thread
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=...mp;start=0
1962 Single Cab Restoration
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?p=7959298#7959298
1967 Beetle Restoration
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=495269&highlight=larrys |
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Thiago Medeiros
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Joined: January 16, 2018
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Location: Brasil - SP
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cdennisg
Samba Member
Joined: November 02, 2004
Posts: 20271
Location: Sandpoint, ID
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| Posted: Mon Jan 22, 2018 8:07 pm Post subject: Re: River Bank Survivor (59 Single Cab) |
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| Fifty-Eight Rag wrote: |
| BarryL wrote: |
| SamboSamba22 wrote: |
| BarryL wrote: |
| You aren't associating the 12.2 volts with it stalling, are you? |
Well, yes i am. If the system isn’t charging, and is simply being powered by the battery, once it gets so low, it dies and that’s it. No? |
12.2 is not low. It might even still run at 9 volts if all you had going was the coil. |
I agree.
A lot of American cars in the 50s/60s would run 12V systems and reduce the coil input voltage through a ballast resistor to keep the points from failing prematurely. This reduced the voltage to the + side of the coil to 6-8V. A coil is fully capable of ramping up output voltage to the plugs at 20K+ volts. |
A VW coil is internally resisted to a lower voltage also, to reduce burning/pitting of the contact breaker points.
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SamboSamba22
Samba Member
Joined: August 06, 2015
Posts: 2772
Location: Benton, Arkansas
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oakman
Samba Member
Joined: February 05, 2014
Posts: 1715
Location: Edge of the Desert, Ca
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| Posted: Sat Jan 27, 2018 1:12 am Post subject: Re: River Bank Survivor (59 Single Cab) |
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| SamboSamba22 wrote: |
Great info gents, I'll look into applying some of your suggestions and knowledge throughout the weekend.
I just know I want to drive this ole heap around, and get it to the new shop to get some of the body work finished.
Follow up coming soon.
Everyone have a great weekend. |
Awesome to see that you're out driving this truck now. It has come such a long way. 
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Brandon |
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Skim
Rants Master
Joined: April 15, 2001
Posts: 17082
Location: GFK 31 Year Vet
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| Posted: Sat Jan 27, 2018 10:25 pm Post subject: Re: River Bank Survivor (59 Single Cab) |
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| oakman wrote: |
| SamboSamba22 wrote: |
Great info gents, I'll look into applying some of your suggestions and knowledge throughout the weekend.
I just know I want to drive this ole heap around, and get it to the new shop to get some of the body work finished.
Follow up coming soon.
Everyone have a great weekend. |
Awesome to see that you're out driving this truck now. It has come such a long way. |
X2. It’s come a long way Sam. You should be very proud of yourself. You brought that thing back to life. Good job!
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GFK
Samba since before the towers collapsed. Still here.
1953 Kabriolet
1954 Sunroof
1959 Lowlight Ghia vert
1960 Lt Grey Double Cab SMZ LEGIT
1963 Deluxe Turkis Walk Thru 15 Window OG Paint |
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