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LAGrunthaner
Samba Member
Joined: March 18, 2007
Posts: 5506
Location: 1st Coast
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 Posted: Mon Jan 22, 2018 4:24 am Post subject: Beetle engine opportunity |
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My mechanic has a Beetle 60's-70's with the funky bumpers, square with black rubber in center. It may be going to the crusher this week and I'm thinking I should get some parts as a back up like the engine. What else should I get while turning some wrenches for my 67 bus?
Would the transmission be the same as my bus? The Beetle is owned by the mechanic's neighbor and I can get the full info on the engine from him before I put a lot of energy or money into this.
Perhaps this is an opportunity for me to learn more about the air-cooled engine and rebuild it as a back up for the future.  I should be able to move the engine with a 4x4, 2 straps, 2 people right?
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| Lind wrote: |
| Have you considered simply starting with a nicer bus? I don't know what your skills are, but the race is easier if you can see the finish line. If you are not a runner, don't start off doing a marathon. |
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Clara 
Samba Member
Joined: June 14, 2003
Posts: 12399
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| Posted: Mon Jan 22, 2018 7:52 am Post subject: Re: Beetle engine opportunity |
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If the bug is free/ cheap, definitely grab the motor if it is running or a good core. Late case with doghouse?  Two people can carry the motor, though usually I use a jack to roll it as close to the vehicle as possible. Weighs a little over 200 lbs. Hold it by the heater boxes.
The square bumpers generally mean 68 or later. The trans can be used in a bus if 68 (lowering guys like them, the center section is the same as bus). 69 is IRS so not so much. Kind of hard to say. If you have space, grab the whole car. (paperwork?) If you don't want extra parts/junky cars laying around, skip the whole thing. I have a 69 beetle and it's the best year. I bet it's rusty if cheap on the east coast. The voltage regulator is under the back seat. |
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ToolBox
Samba Member
Joined: January 27, 2004
Posts: 3439
Location: Detroit, where they don't jack parts off my ride in the parking lot of the 7-11
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| Posted: Mon Jan 22, 2018 10:44 am Post subject: Re: Beetle engine opportunity |
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| Snag the wiring harness, spare correctly colored wire is always handy. |
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Harleyelf
Samba Member
Joined: April 23, 2009
Posts: 1572
Location: Appleton, WI
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| Posted: Mon Jan 22, 2018 11:54 am Post subject: Re: Beetle engine opportunity |
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| Beetle engine will fit fine in your '67. If the crank turns smoothly and you cannot make the belt pulley move in and out with your hands, a new set of AA pistons/cylinders and a pair of new Chinese 043 heads will make it into your backup motor. I try to always keep a running motor on hand for emergencies. |
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mandraks
Samba Member
Joined: November 28, 2004
Posts: 7047
Location: Lawrenceville, Ga
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| Posted: Mon Jan 22, 2018 2:20 pm Post subject: Re: Beetle engine opportunity |
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i would get the motor. tranny perhaps since that is more work
don't take the exhaust off, you will need it to wiggle the engine out
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Uli
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'53 3-Fold Oval, L35 Metallic Blue, looking for a narrow hatch panel |
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Harleyelf
Samba Member
Joined: April 23, 2009
Posts: 1572
Location: Appleton, WI
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| Posted: Mon Jan 22, 2018 2:49 pm Post subject: Re: Beetle engine opportunity |
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Does it have solid axle tubes or CV joints and open axles? You use early trans in your bus, much work to remove (the axle tubes are full of 90W). I use IRS trans in my '66, would love to have a spare in the garage but don't want to deal with shipping.
Any emblems or badges will be an easy sale on ebay. |
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LAGrunthaner
Samba Member
Joined: March 18, 2007
Posts: 5506
Location: 1st Coast
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| Posted: Tue Jan 23, 2018 5:22 pm Post subject: Re: Beetle engine opportunity |
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Super nice details as always Clara.
Bad news it's not for sale but I will keep at it because it has some hidden rust under all that newer paint and I suspect once on the lift it will not be pretty. It has a 78 VW vanity plate so upon look up it may be a 78. Still good for my bus right? I will keep at it. Wow they are only 200lbs? Great!
| Clara wrote: |
If the bug is free/ cheap, definitely grab the motor if it is running or a good core. Late case with doghouse? Two people can carry the motor, though usually I use a jack to roll it as close to the vehicle as possible. Weighs a little over 200 lbs. Hold it by the heater boxes.
The square bumpers generally mean 68 or later. The trans can be used in a bus if 68 (lowering guys like them, the center section is the same as bus). 69 is IRS so not so much. Kind of hard to say. If you have space, grab the whole car. (paperwork?) If you don't want extra parts/junky cars laying around, skip the whole thing. I have a 69 beetle and it's the best year. I bet it's rusty if cheap on the east coast. The voltage regulator is under the back seat. |
_________________
American Red Cross Safe And Well:
https://www.redcross.org/about-us/news-and-events/...bsite.html
Maui Roadsters
www.mauiroadsters.com
http://www.oacdp.org
| Lind wrote: |
| Have you considered simply starting with a nicer bus? I don't know what your skills are, but the race is easier if you can see the finish line. If you are not a runner, don't start off doing a marathon. |
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orangebug60guy
Twin #1
Joined: June 28, 2003
Posts: 1516
Location: South Hadley Mass
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| Posted: Tue Jan 23, 2018 5:47 pm Post subject: Re: Beetle engine opportunity |
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| LAGrunthaner wrote: |
Super nice details as always Clara.
Bad news it's not for sale but I will keep at it because it has some hidden rust under all that newer paint and I suspect once on the lift it will not be pretty. It has a 78 VW vanity plate so upon look up it may be a 78. Still good for my bus right? I will keep at it. Wow they are only 200lbs? Great!
| Clara wrote: |
If the bug is free/ cheap, definitely grab the motor if it is running or a good core. Late case with doghouse? Two people can carry the motor, though usually I use a jack to roll it as close to the vehicle as possible. Weighs a little over 200 lbs. Hold it by the heater boxes.
The square bumpers generally mean 68 or later. The trans can be used in a bus if 68 (lowering guys like them, the center section is the same as bus). 69 is IRS so not so much. Kind of hard to say. If you have space, grab the whole car. (paperwork?) If you don't want extra parts/junky cars laying around, skip the whole thing. I have a 69 beetle and it's the best year. I bet it's rusty if cheap on the east coast. The voltage regulator is under the back seat. |
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It probably has an AE motor then. Just a guess don't hold me to it. Which you could make a single port for your bus with new heads. Or keep the dual port heads and run it as is. Big motors in buses rock! Even stock bug engines as long as they have the right carb and exhaust. Don't be afraid to run it!
FYI, teaching STEM or Tech Ed is where its at.
....That's what I do.
Buy all the cheap/free stuff you can just like hoarding supplies for teaching.
_________________
Arachibutyrophobia- Fear of peanut butter sticking to the roof of the mouth.
Coprastasophobia- Fear of constipation. |
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Clara
Samba Member
Joined: June 14, 2003
Posts: 12399
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| Posted: Tue Jan 23, 2018 7:34 pm Post subject: Re: Beetle engine opportunity |
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| orangebug60guy wrote: |
| LAGrunthaner wrote: |
Super nice details as always Clara.
Bad news it's not for sale but I will keep at it because it has some hidden rust under all that newer paint and I suspect once on the lift it will not be pretty. It has a 78 VW vanity plate so upon look up it may be a 78. Still good for my bus right? I will keep at it. Wow they are only 200lbs? Great!
| Clara wrote: |
If the bug is free/ cheap, definitely grab the motor if it is running or a good core. Late case with doghouse? Two people can carry the motor, though usually I use a jack to roll it as close to the vehicle as possible. Weighs a little over 200 lbs. Hold it by the heater boxes.
The square bumpers generally mean 68 or later. The trans can be used in a bus if 68 (lowering guys like them, the center section is the same as bus). 69 is IRS so not so much. Kind of hard to say. If you have space, grab the whole car. (paperwork?) If you don't want extra parts/junky cars laying around, skip the whole thing. I have a 69 beetle and it's the best year. I bet it's rusty if cheap on the east coast. The voltage regulator is under the back seat. |
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It probably has an AE motor then. Just a guess don't hold me to it. Which you could make a single port for your bus with new heads. Or keep the dual port heads and run it as is. Big motors in buses rock! Even stock bug engines as long as they have the right carb and exhaust. Don't be afraid to run it!
FYI, teaching STEM or Tech Ed is where its at.
....That's what I do.
Buy all the cheap/free stuff you can just like hoarding supplies for teaching. |
Late bug cases is where it is at. 
Maybe 225 or 250lbs all in. And it pushes two tons of bus and gear around. pretty cool! |
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crofty
Judas of the North
Joined: August 09, 2000
Posts: 19672
Location: Land of Whine and Phonies
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| Posted: Wed Jan 24, 2018 10:37 am Post subject: Re: Beetle engine opportunity |
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An AE case is an early 70's case 71-73.
_________________
Your Vanagon sucks, Stop waving at me.
| HamburgerBrad wrote: |
I slept on crofty's tent once. I passed out drunk from two bottles of Everett's brother's wine. |
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LAGrunthaner
Samba Member
Joined: March 18, 2007
Posts: 5506
Location: 1st Coast
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| Posted: Thu Jan 25, 2018 2:59 am Post subject: Re: Beetle engine opportunity |
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Clara that statement is amazing. I might have to locate a spare that I can use as a shrine LOL.
"Late bug cases is where it is at.
Maybe 225 or 250lbs all in. And it pushes two tons of bus and gear around. pretty cool!"
What would be a nice late model engine to keep handy now that this one is not available? I will assume the earliest Bug engine will also push a bus.
| Clara wrote: |
| orangebug60guy wrote: |
| LAGrunthaner wrote: |
Super nice details as always Clara.
Bad news it's not for sale but I will keep at it because it has some hidden rust under all that newer paint and I suspect once on the lift it will not be pretty. It has a 78 VW vanity plate so upon look up it may be a 78. Still good for my bus right? I will keep at it. Wow they are only 200lbs? Great!
| Clara wrote: |
If the bug is free/ cheap, definitely grab the motor if it is running or a good core. Late case with doghouse? Two people can carry the motor, though usually I use a jack to roll it as close to the vehicle as possible. Weighs a little over 200 lbs. Hold it by the heater boxes.
The square bumpers generally mean 68 or later. The trans can be used in a bus if 68 (lowering guys like them, the center section is the same as bus). 69 is IRS so not so much. Kind of hard to say. If you have space, grab the whole car. (paperwork?) If you don't want extra parts/junky cars laying around, skip the whole thing. I have a 69 beetle and it's the best year. I bet it's rusty if cheap on the east coast. The voltage regulator is under the back seat. |
|
It probably has an AE motor then. Just a guess don't hold me to it. Which you could make a single port for your bus with new heads. Or keep the dual port heads and run it as is. Big motors in buses rock! Even stock bug engines as long as they have the right carb and exhaust. Don't be afraid to run it!
FYI, teaching STEM or Tech Ed is where its at.
....That's what I do.
Buy all the cheap/free stuff you can just like hoarding supplies for teaching. |
Late bug cases is where it is at.
Maybe 225 or 250lbs all in. And it pushes two tons of bus and gear around. pretty cool! |
_________________
American Red Cross Safe And Well:
https://www.redcross.org/about-us/news-and-events/...bsite.html
Maui Roadsters
www.mauiroadsters.com
http://www.oacdp.org
| Lind wrote: |
| Have you considered simply starting with a nicer bus? I don't know what your skills are, but the race is easier if you can see the finish line. If you are not a runner, don't start off doing a marathon. |
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crofty
Judas of the North
Joined: August 09, 2000
Posts: 19672
Location: Land of Whine and Phonies
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| Posted: Thu Jan 25, 2018 10:31 am Post subject: Re: Beetle engine opportunity |
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I think starting with the AE case (or around that time) the oil galleys got bigger and are all dual relief. those are big plusses especially in a bus.
_________________
Your Vanagon sucks, Stop waving at me.
| HamburgerBrad wrote: |
I slept on crofty's tent once. I passed out drunk from two bottles of Everett's brother's wine. |
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LAGrunthaner
Samba Member
Joined: March 18, 2007
Posts: 5506
Location: 1st Coast
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| Posted: Fri Jan 26, 2018 4:02 am Post subject: Re: Beetle engine opportunity |
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Back to school, what is an AE engine?
| crofty wrote: |
| I think starting with the AE case (or around that time) the oil galleys got bigger and are all dual relief. those are big plusses especially in a bus. |
_________________
American Red Cross Safe And Well:
https://www.redcross.org/about-us/news-and-events/...bsite.html
Maui Roadsters
www.mauiroadsters.com
http://www.oacdp.org
| Lind wrote: |
| Have you considered simply starting with a nicer bus? I don't know what your skills are, but the race is easier if you can see the finish line. If you are not a runner, don't start off doing a marathon. |
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orangebug60guy
Twin #1
Joined: June 28, 2003
Posts: 1516
Location: South Hadley Mass
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| Posted: Fri Jan 26, 2018 5:01 am Post subject: Re: Beetle engine opportunity |
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| LAGrunthaner wrote: |
Back to school, what is an AE engine?
| crofty wrote: |
| I think starting with the AE case (or around that time) the oil galleys got bigger and are all dual relief. those are big plusses especially in a bus. |
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Beetle engine data https://www.thesamba.com/vw/archives/info/engine_letters.php
_________________
Arachibutyrophobia- Fear of peanut butter sticking to the roof of the mouth.
Coprastasophobia- Fear of constipation. |
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Clara
Samba Member
Joined: June 14, 2003
Posts: 12399
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| Posted: Fri Jan 26, 2018 8:29 am Post subject: Re: Beetle engine opportunity |
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1500 engines were built on an alloy that is not as good as the later alloy. Later cases have the larger, oil passages. Dual relief, which is better oiling. I think 68-70 bus cases have the better oil passages, but are still the earlier alloy. IIRC 71 buses (and later 1600 buses) have the better alloy, better oiling. Evidently the factory installed cases savers a little later and that is better. Of course the doghouse is better, which is 71 bus, and later bug.
You can put many miles on a sixties case, but there were improvements, and if you are starting from scratch, and are not attached to a certain case such as the original to the car, I'd go with the better alloy.
That said, I've rocked earlier cases as well. Greg has the tooling to cut cam bearings into the early cases, we've run those. I think if you overheat, the earlier alloy has a lower tolerance for issues. They don't hold up to abuse as well.
I found running the doghouse and all the tin and parts VW says to be on there, it is not likely to overheat.
Of the cases I've found that were warped, or studs pulling out, they tended to be the the early alloy.
Don't put it on a shelf to adore, build it so you can put it in the bus and go camping! |
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BarryL
Samba Member
Joined: November 01, 2004
Posts: 14257
Location: Casa de Oro, California
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| Posted: Fri Jan 26, 2018 12:39 pm Post subject: Re: Beetle engine opportunity |
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| You might get a flat pull wagon with inflatable tires to set it on. An engine can become an albatros if you are the only one. |
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LAGrunthaner
Samba Member
Joined: March 18, 2007
Posts: 5506
Location: 1st Coast
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| Posted: Sat Jan 27, 2018 6:22 am Post subject: Re: Beetle engine opportunity |
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| orangebug60guy wrote: |
| LAGrunthaner wrote: |
Back to school, what is an AE engine?
| crofty wrote: |
| I think starting with the AE case (or around that time) the oil galleys got bigger and are all dual relief. those are big plusses especially in a bus. |
|
Beetle engine data https://www.thesamba.com/vw/archives/info/engine_letters.php |
Thanks for the link orangebug60guy, I'm looking at my bus engine which is out of a Super Beetle.
My engine is a duel port AD 47176.
I always appreciate the detailed explanations you write Clara. My Super Beetle engine in my bus AD 47176 appears to be a 1600cc 50bhp DIN, 60HP SAE-gross USA-only, according to the link above. Why is that listed under Type 2 as my engine came out of a Type 1 (beetle). My engine runs great glad to know better alloy and oiling for cooling but I need to install heater boxes and stock muffler & all the tin. I'll keep my 1600 DP but if the other one comes my way I will scoop it up especially if it is free.
| Clara wrote: |
1500 engines were built on an alloy that is not as good as the later alloy. Later cases have the larger, oil passages. Dual relief, which is better oiling. I think 68-70 bus cases have the better oil passages, but are still the earlier alloy. IIRC 71 buses (and later 1600 buses) have the better alloy, better oiling. Evidently the factory installed cases savers a little later and that is better. Of course the doghouse is better, which is 71 bus, and later bug.
You can put many miles on a sixties case, but there were improvements, and if you are starting from scratch, and are not attached to a certain case such as the original to the car, I'd go with the better alloy.
That said, I've rocked earlier cases as well. Greg has the tooling to cut cam bearings into the early cases, we've run those. I think if you overheat, the earlier alloy has a lower tolerance for issues. They don't hold up to abuse as well.
I found running the doghouse and all the tin and parts VW says to be on there, it is not likely to overheat.
Of the cases I've found that were warped, or studs pulling out, they tended to be the the early alloy.
Don't put it on a shelf to adore, build it so you can put it in the bus and go camping! |
_________________
American Red Cross Safe And Well:
https://www.redcross.org/about-us/news-and-events/...bsite.html
Maui Roadsters
www.mauiroadsters.com
http://www.oacdp.org
| Lind wrote: |
| Have you considered simply starting with a nicer bus? I don't know what your skills are, but the race is easier if you can see the finish line. If you are not a runner, don't start off doing a marathon. |
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