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flyboat
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Location: Bath NC
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 Posted: Sun Jan 21, 2018 10:34 am Post subject: Re: 4 barrel carb/Fuel Injection conversion/Questions |
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On this setup, what EFI system controls it. I assume it has an aftermarket EFI using the beetle manifold and TB?
Thanks
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flyboat
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Location: Bath NC
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| Posted: Sun Jan 21, 2018 10:39 am Post subject: Re: 4 barrel carb/Fuel Injection conversion/Questions |
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I see this manifold allows one barrel to feed both sides and the other feeds the other two cylinders on opposite sides. Does this take care of the inversion problem?
http://www.headflowmasters.com/the-cheater-single-carburetor-vw-manifold.html#.WmTQC66nH3i
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ps2375
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Joined: April 24, 2014
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Location: Meridian,ID
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| Posted: Sun Jan 21, 2018 10:42 am Post subject: Re: 4 barrel carb/Fuel Injection conversion/Questions |
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| flyboat wrote: |
| The manifold would be set up so one side is fed by one barrel and the other side uses the other barrel. |
Sounds like a dumbed down ITB setup, with the only benefit as less cost due to half the TB's. I suppose it'll be unique. |
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ps2375
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| Posted: Sun Jan 21, 2018 10:45 am Post subject: Re: 4 barrel carb/Fuel Injection conversion/Questions |
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| flyboat wrote: |
On this setup, what EFI system controls it. I assume it has an aftermarket EFI using the beetle manifold and TB?
Thanks |
That looks like a MS wire harness hanging there. The plug on the TB looks like an IAT sensor. And the 3 pin black plug is the TPS sensor. |
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flyboat
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Location: Bath NC
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| Posted: Mon Jan 22, 2018 7:40 am Post subject: Re: 4 barrel carb/Fuel Injection conversion/Questions |
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How do you think the above intake manifold would work if I ran the intake tubes up to a collector (header collector) and sat the TB on that. I'm trying to come up with a way to get the best flow with the least restrictions. I know I can get header collectors down to a fairly low diameter for the small tubes
Thanks
Roger
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ps2375
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| Posted: Mon Jan 22, 2018 8:17 am Post subject: Re: 4 barrel carb/Fuel Injection conversion/Questions |
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| I think packaging will be you're biggest challenge if you are trying to stay with a center mount TB. Depending upon your goals for this motor, you'll have to decide if a single or dual TB's are going to meet them. |
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flyboat
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| Posted: Mon Jan 22, 2018 9:16 am Post subject: Re: 4 barrel carb/Fuel Injection conversion/Questions |
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| ps2375 wrote: |
| I think packaging will be you're biggest challenge if you are trying to stay with a center mount TB. Depending upon your goals for this motor, you'll have to decide if a single or dual TB's are going to meet them. |
I agree. If the collector idea works, I'll go with a single throttle body but it will be a large one like 90 mm and injectors will be at the heads
Based on my research so far, it looks like it's gonna be Mega Squirt. I found another nice DIY system but it was expensive.
Cheers
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bluebus86
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Joined: September 02, 2010
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| Posted: Mon Jan 22, 2018 9:17 am Post subject: Re: 4 barrel carb/Fuel Injection conversion/Questions |
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If going center mount, Id go for a single bore throttle body. no need for dual bore if your centermounted.
Good Luck, no matter how you fuel it! Bug On!
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flyboat
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| Posted: Mon Jan 22, 2018 9:19 am Post subject: Re: 4 barrel carb/Fuel Injection conversion/Questions |
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Can anyone tell me what injectors work best with the Mega Squirt system.
On my track car, the PCU only likes Bosch. Others work but it's hard to tune.
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ps2375
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| Posted: Mon Jan 22, 2018 9:25 am Post subject: Re: 4 barrel carb/Fuel Injection conversion/Questions |
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| I have always found that a progressive 2 butterfly TB gives the best throttle control and drive-ability. A large single TB is more on/off and a smaller single TB may be a bit of a bottle neck if it gives good control at lower throttle openings. Again, a choice the builder will need to determine. |
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Multi69s
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ps2375
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Location: Meridian,ID
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| Posted: Tue Jan 23, 2018 6:29 pm Post subject: Re: 4 barrel carb/Fuel Injection conversion/Questions |
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| Multi69s wrote: |
Flyboat,
I don't think you mentioned it, but what type of cam are you planning for this engine? It could make a big impact on what style you choose. |
Not as much as you would think, I had a fairly big cam in my Rabbit, and on MS you could hardly tell at idle, totally the opposite from when it was on CIS. |
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ashman40
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| Posted: Tue Jan 23, 2018 11:03 pm Post subject: Re: 4 barrel carb/Fuel Injection conversion/Questions |
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Here is another throttle body option you may want to look into....
| Quote: |
| a progressive Weber center section (SCAT, Bugpack or Redline/Weber), topped by an early 90's VW 16V Passat progressive throttle body which has a built-in TPS, and mildly ported CB FI end castings |
This came from : http://www.shoptalkforums.com/viewtopic.php?t=139756
The mounting holes are a perfect match to the progressive carb intake flange. Like the progressive Weber, the small progressive tb primary throttle plate gives you the responsiveness of a smaller individual throttle plates and then when the secondary opens you get the large volume of airflow that you want for higher rpms.
The challenge may be how to mount an air cleaner to the odd shaped opening.
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Multi69s
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| Posted: Wed Jan 24, 2018 12:23 am Post subject: Re: 4 barrel carb/Fuel Injection conversion/Questions |
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| ps2375 wrote: |
| Multi69s wrote: |
Flyboat,
I don't think you mentioned it, but what type of cam are you planning for this engine? It could make a big impact on what style you choose. |
Not as much as you would think, I had a fairly big cam in my Rabbit, and on MS you could hardly tell at idle, totally the opposite from when it was on CIS. |
However there is a huge difference between a T1 and a rabbit. I think that the runner length is considerably different.
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ps2375
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| Posted: Wed Jan 24, 2018 8:33 am Post subject: Re: 4 barrel carb/Fuel Injection conversion/Questions |
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| Multi69s wrote: |
| ps2375 wrote: |
| Multi69s wrote: |
Flyboat,
I don't think you mentioned it, but what type of cam are you planning for this engine? It could make a big impact on what style you choose. |
Not as much as you would think, I had a fairly big cam in my Rabbit, and on MS you could hardly tell at idle, totally the opposite from when it was on CIS. |
However there is a huge difference between a T1 and a rabbit. I think that the runner length is considerably different. |
Very much so, but the MS is MAP based(in Speed/Density mode) and overlap has little effect on idle, unlike how the flap is effected by the overlap pulses on a CIS system. It may have less vacuum at idle,but that is easily tuned for in MS. |
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ps2375
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Location: Meridian,ID
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| Posted: Wed Jan 24, 2018 8:36 am Post subject: Re: 4 barrel carb/Fuel Injection conversion/Questions |
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| ashman40 wrote: |
Here is another throttle body option you may want to look into....
| Quote: |
| a progressive Weber center section (SCAT, Bugpack or Redline/Weber), topped by an early 90's VW 16V Passat progressive throttle body which has a built-in TPS, and mildly ported CB FI end castings |
This came from : http://www.shoptalkforums.com/viewtopic.php?t=139756
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An Automatic 16V Passat only. They are getting harder to find in some areas due to the built in TPS. |
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flyboat
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| Posted: Thu Jan 25, 2018 5:37 pm Post subject: Re: 4 barrel carb/Fuel Injection conversion/Questions |
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| Multi69s wrote: |
Flyboat,
I don't think you mentioned it, but what type of cam are you planning for this engine? It could make a big impact on what style you choose. |
I call it a torquer cam. It was in one of my other engines and it is a low rpm cam with tremendous torque. lift with a 1.4 rocker is .590. I forget all teh other specs
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flyboat
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Joined: April 21, 2010
Posts: 2752
Location: Bath NC
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| Posted: Thu Jan 25, 2018 5:43 pm Post subject: Re: 4 barrel carb/Fuel Injection conversion/Questions |
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| ashman40 wrote: |
Here is another throttle body option you may want to look into....
| Quote: |
| a progressive Weber center section (SCAT, Bugpack or Redline/Weber), topped by an early 90's VW 16V Passat progressive throttle body which has a built-in TPS, and mildly ported CB FI end castings |
This came from : http://www.shoptalkforums.com/viewtopic.php?t=139756
The mounting holes are a perfect match to the progressive carb intake flange. Like the progressive Weber, the small progressive tb primary throttle plate gives you the responsiveness of a smaller individual throttle plates and then when the secondary opens you get the large volume of airflow that you want for higher rpms.
The challenge may be how to mount an air cleaner to the odd shaped opening. |
Interesting, thanks
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flyboat
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| Posted: Fri Jan 26, 2018 7:16 pm Post subject: Re: 4 barrel carb/Fuel Injection conversion/Questions |
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So far, this is what I'm thinking. CB Performance high flow injection end castings, progressive throttle body like pictured in the thread. Progressive style intake but one I make that smooths out the flow. Then megasquirt to control it all. Not sure on the injectors yet but leaning to the bosch 42lb from the chevy LS 7
I did see a system similar to this today but can't remember where I saw it. It had a single barrel throttle body
All your thoughts or criticism is very welcome
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